Playboy Interview: John Travolta

In less than a month, John Travolta may surprise everyone all over again. "Moment by Moment" his newest film, will complete one of the most successful three-picture contracts in history. It may also prove, once and for all, that its 24-year-old star is more than just a pretty face who can dance well and mug teenage angst. The film, in which he plays a teenage runaway to ho becomes romantically involved with co-star Lily Tomlin, could confirm Travolta's credentials as a serious dramatic actor.

Three years ago, Travolta became a popular but innocuous teen idol because of his role as Vinnie Barbarino in the hit TV series "Welcome Back, Kotter." A year after the series' start, he signed a $1,000,000-plus, three-picture deal with Robert Stigwood's R.S.O. films. With the release of "Saturday Night Fever," the first of these films, Travolta became, arguably, the film star of the year, as well as America's newest sex symbol. He didn't hurt the disco business, either.

While Travolla was being nominated for an Oscar, and being compared by the critics with DeNiro, Pacino, Dean, Brando and just about every other film star whose face seemed to have a special relationship with the camera, "Saturday Night Fever" was breaking world box-office records. In less than a year, the domestic box-office receipts are approaching $112,000,000, while the film's sound track has been certified as the larg-est-selling album of any kind in history.

Born in 1954 in Englewood, New Jersey, Travolta is the youngest of six children, all of whom have followed their actress-mother, Helen, into show business. Travolta dropped out of Dwight Morrow High School at 16 and, encouraged by his parents, sought an acting career in New York. He appeared in a number of small stage productions, supported himself by appearing in 40-odd commercials and, in 1972, traveled to Hollywood. He landed guest spots on "Emergency!" "Owen Marshall," "The Rookies" and "Medical Center" while auditioning for the film "The Last Detail." Between trips to the Coast, he performed on Broadway in "Grease" and "Over Here."

After his first season on "Kotter," he made a TV movie, "The Boy in the Plastic Bubble," which was significant to Travolta because during the filming he met and became deeply involved with the 40-year-old actress Diana Hyland. In the spring of 1977, during the filming of "Fever," she died in his arms, succumbing to a long bout with cancer. By the time of her death, their relationship had been mercilessly exploited by the fan magazines and gossip tabloids. As a result, he became bitter toward the press and wary of its intrusion into his personal life--a bitterness that remains.

On the heels of "Fever" came the second R.S.O. film--"Grease"--a mediocre rehash of the Broadway musical. In contrast to at least the semblance of realism of "Fever," "Grease" was a predigested lubricant for all Travolta's preteen and teen fans. However, the film has already outgrossed its predecessor and earned in excess of $114,000,000 in U.S. box-office receipts.

To find out what it's like to be the newest king of the mountain, Playboy sent free-lancer Judsan Winger to track down the megastar. Klinger reports:

"I first met Travolta a month before the release of 'Saturday Night Fever,' when I profiled him for The New York Times. I was surprised to find him even more attractive in person than on television. His eyes, especially, have an incandescent quality that just doesn't transfer onto video tape. We conducted our conversation over dinner on Sunset Boulevard--uninterrupted by fans. Although eager to discuss his future in films, he was unexpectedly shy--at times dropping his voice to an almost inaudible whisper whenever his words might be misconstrued as arrogant. Perhaps he's been burned in the past, when his self-confidence has been misinterpreted as cockiness.

"Nine months later, when it had become impossible for us to meet publicly without causing a furor, we arranged the Playboy sessions for a week-long series of evenings at a suite in the L'Ermitage Hotel in Beverly Hills, On the first night, he arrived in his beige Mercedes 450SL, dressed in a Munsingwear sport shirt and jeans. He loped into the suite and threw an arm over my shoulder, treating me with the disarming deference I suspected was reserved only for trusted friends. Although we were both conscious that time was very important, he insisted upon spending an hour asking me questions about what I had been up to over the past year. Surprisingly enough, his interest seemed genuine. It became clear that he would have preferred to interview me--he prides himself on being a studious listener and a fastidious observer. At one point, he interjected, 'I bet I could get a good imitation of you down before the night is over.'

"When we finally turned on the tape recorder, much of his excitement and spontaneity disappeared. He became serious and, I sensed, defensive, as if an impenetrable shield had been raised. He was aware that in the past he had successfully constructed his public image while carefully avoiding details of a private nature. Apparently, he saw no need to contribute to the invasion of what little privacy he can still maintain. When the conversation stuck to what he knows best--show business--he spoke freely; but when it turned to the intimacies of his life, his voice slowed and his answers danced along the questions' perimeters.

"While our first evening was pretty much free form, the next night we returned to L'Ermitage for a marathon Q.-and-A. session. He arrived in extremely high spirits, having come from the rehearsal of a 'Kotter' episode in which Vinnie gets his own apartment. John dominates this particular episode and, in a demonstration of unbridled enthusiasm, there in the hotel suite, he became Vinnie and began to jump around the room, pantomiming the scenario. Once again, I noticed part of the energy he'd brought into the room fade before my eyes as I went for the recorder. Still, over the next six hours, we discussed subjects ranging from sex to Scientology. On four separate occasions, to illustrate a point, he jumped from his chair and recreated one of his characters. By contrast, whenever Diana Hyland's name was mentioned, he withdrew entirely and whispered replies that urged me to move on quickly. But when discussing subjects that interested or challenged him, he was enthusiastic and opinionated.

"Watching John perform before the TV cameras after our final session, I was reminded of the startling dissimilarity between the man with whom I'd spent the week and the character Barbarino. The 'Kotter' audience, seated in bleachers among the various television stages, was predominantly leenaged and female--and totally Travolta's. In order to diffuse as much of the hysteria as possible, the cast was introduced for a brief pretaping Q. and A. Travolta's introduction drew a reaction not unlike the response accorded the Beatles on 'The Ed Sullivan Show.'

"Our final interview look place in his production offices at the Burbank Studios. By then, it was obvious that I would not see him drop his defenses. In spite of that, I left the final session realizing I liked him quite a lot. I'm sure that for him, the outcome of the interviews had never been in doubt--he was as well rehearsed for our talks as he was for the 'Kotter' taping the next afternoon. We began with the subject of his carefully guarded image."

[Q]Playboy: You seem a little apprehensive about this interview, and you give very few of them. Are you afraid of the press?

[A]Travolta: No. In fact, since Saturday Night Fever, the press has been rooting for me. If I feel anything negative, it's that the press might begin to get skeptical with so much talk about my being a wonderful person. [Laughs] Journalists are programed to think that anything good must have a negative side, so when the negative doesn't come up, they question the validity of----

[Q]Playboy: The positive?

[A]Travolta: Exactly. Sometimes I feel people are waiting for me to break down, go on a drinking binge or on a drug binge If I feel any paranoia, that's where I get at. I guess I don't do a lot of things that are appropriate to someone in my situation. I don't like drugs, I don't like drinking. It may sound corny, but I love my work; that's what I'm most interested in.

[Q]Playboy: Has the attitude of the press toward you changed since Saturday Night Fever?

[A]Travolta: Definitely. Before that movie, I tended to get the worst press in the world. No one knew why I was famous in Welcome Back, Kotter; they weren't sure they saw it in my work. I used to worry about it. But let's face it; since my career started, I've been exploited in many ways. That's mainly because I don't give many interviews, and if you yourself don't fill the void, someone is going to fill it for you. And that's obviously what's happened to me.

[Q]Playboy: Are we going to set the record straight?

[A]Travolta: I hope so. I think the public is a little confused about my personality. They get flashes of this, flashes of that, but they don't quite know what to make of me, because I don't think it's necessary for my life to be an open book.

Lately, more attention has been put on my life than on almost anybody else's. Suddenly, it's so important to know the intricate details of John Travolta's life that I sometimes feel compelled to make up stuff when I'm asked. Because I don't know if there is anything that interesting, or devastating negative--other than what you see.

[Q]Playboy: You're telling us we can't believe what we read about you in the gossip columns and fan magazines?

[A]Travolta: [Laughs] I've been connected with just about every female in the industry. I'm always caught in these love triangles. I'm flying off to Paris to meet Marisa Berenson, with Olivia Newton-John's waiting with my baby at home. Or Lee Majors is jealous because Farrah is going out with me. They're so farfetched I can only laugh at them. There was one great one, one fantastic one. The headline was something like, "Travolta Sex Orgies."

[Q]Playboy: One reason we're having this conversation is that the public seems to consider you, at the age of 24, the newest male sex symbol. What is a man's sex appeal? Can you define it?

[A]Travolta: No, I can't. That's my problem when I see my own films. I look at them as an actor; I always forget that people think I have a certain sex appeal. It's very hard to tune into one's own sexuality. I know I feel sexual. I know I think of myself as a very sexual person, because I think I'm sort of hot-blooded. That doesn't mean I'm necessarily promiscuous. It means I really enjoy sex, the idea of sex and my fantasies. [Pause] So I'm passionate, but I don't necessarily tune into that on the screen. I feel it as a person, but I can't see it, I can't be objective.

[Q]Playboy: Some people feel your appeal is to both sexes. Do you think of yourself as an androgynous sex star--perhaps like James Dean or Montgomery Clift or even Mick Jagger?

[A]Travolta: I know I don't feel that way. but I certainly like the idea of how it sounds. I think if I can evoke that kind of feeling, whether it's from a male or a female, then that's an inspiring effect. It's also exciting to know your power can exceed the usual. You're not put into one category, you're put into a universal category. You can have everyone love you.

[Q]Playboy: It means you're also a big star in the gay community.

[A]Travolta: Again, if I'm creating that effect, that's more power to me, in a sense. If I have that effect on everyone--heterosexual, homosexual, whatever--then why be discriminating? I'm not gonna say, "Gee, I wish those people weren't turned on to me." I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face.

[Q]Playboy: Have there been an unusually large number of gay people connected with your career?

[A]Travolta: I think it would probably be unfair to assume they are gay, and I don't really care if they are. I've never been one to investigate the sexual preferences of people around me. If there is anyone around me who is gay, it's never interfered with his work. If they're good artists, or they're responsible and good workers, that's what's important. If sexual preference enters the picture on any working level, you're in trouble.

[Q]Playboy: Getting back to sexual power, do you think of it as something you can use to your advantage?

[A]Travolta: I'm never using it. It's something I feel, and I'm not ever manipulative with it. I would use it within a scene, but in my own personal life, I would never misuse that, because if I feel excited or stimulated, I'm just affecting whoever is there. It would almost be as if I were fulfilling someone's needs.

[A]Travolta: I know when I feel sexual and I know what I perceive as sexual. I see something, I identify with it, and by identifying with it, I also become it.

[Q]Playboy: Did you feel a sense of sexual power during your dance solo in Saturday Night Fever?

[A]Travolta: Absolutely. A lot of it came from the excitement of what I was doing, of what I was about to show everyone. I had a lot of confidence in what I was doing. [Travolta gets up and begins to re-create his dance solo as he continues to talk.] It's like, I know the steps so well that when I go [swings his arms] I know I have confidence in the movement. See? All of these moves are, "Look what I can do." [Spins around] But that doesn't necessarily mean, "Boy, this is really turning them on." It's an air, the ability or the confidence a person has when he has talent, and sometimes it's sexy. Yet he's not being self-conscious of the sexuality in it. [He does an exaggerated dip and sits down.]

[Q]Playboy: How many hours did you spend rehearsing the dance routines?

[A]Travolta: I had the script early on, and I trained about three hours a night for five months in a studio with Deny Terrio, who was with the Lockers. Then, after the lessons, we'd go to the discos and I'd try out my stuff. I worked very hard training for the film, but I just felt terrific doing it. I've loved dancing since I was a kid.

[Q]Playboy: When did you learn to dance?

[A]Travolta: I think my first turn-on to dance was James Cagney in Yankee Doodle Dandy. That was when I was five or six. I used to try to imitate him in front of the television set. I went to a school that was 50 percent black, and they were always very into dancing. I mean, everybody was, but I liked black dancing better than white dancing. I used to watch Soul Train, and what I wanted to create was a Soul Train feel in Saturday Night Fever. I wanted to use a lot of that feel, plus theatrical dancing, which was a very interesting combination.

[Q]Playboy: At one point, wasn't your solo supposed to be a duet?

[A]Travolta: Right. You know, I had to enforce the dance-solo scene. They were basing the movie on Tony's being the best dancer, and he didn't have a solo. Everyone talked about how great he was; I thought you had to see how great he was. It couldn't be faked. So I asked Robert [Stigwood] whether I could do it. I said, "You spent all this money training me, and you're not gonna let me do a solo dance? That's what the kids do who are good."

[Q]Playboy: The best dancers actually clear the floor?

[A]Travolta: Yes. It's a ritual. I have done that in real life, I've cleared areas off. Even me, and people haven't known I was John Travolta. Anyway, I said, "You've got. to prove to the audience that he is the best. Until the solo, you don't see where he gets his name from." So he said, "All right, but do it to Stayin' Alive." And I said, "I really feel that I should do it to You Should Be Dancing." So when I finally sort of pressed that issue a lot, he said OK and let me have it.

[Q]Playboy: Weren't you pressing your luck a little, making demands like that?

[A]Travolta: I have a feeling it has to do with your approach and how strongly you believe in what you're saying. I really believed that the dance solo had to be worked on, because there was a misunderstanding about the character. At one point, someone thought that he couldn't clear a dance floor. I said, "That's what it's all about, so let's see his whole body." They wanted to edit it up here [draws an imaginary frame above his chest]. I didn't study five months to be looked at up here. I thought the acting scenes were edited brilliantly. But on the dance scene, I said, "Please, let's really show how this guy could clear a dance floor."

[Q]Playboy: Fred Astaire was quoted as saying that you're a damn good dancer. How do you feel about that?

[A]Travolta: I think that if Fred Astaire said that I'm a good dancer, we should believe it.

[Q]Playboy: How else did you prepare for Saturday Night Fever?

[A]Travolta: I'd go out to discos and watch the people. I'm very good at absorbing situations and duplicating people. I spent a couple of days in Brooklyn with Norman Wexler, the writer, and I spent a lot of time talking to some of the kids I met. It gave me confidence in what I was doing.

[Q]Playboy: Give us an example.

[A]Travolta: A couple of times I went incognito. Sort of sat in the back and watched. And I picked up two or three things right off the bat. The guys at the bar, they all stood like this [stands with his shoulders back, legs about a foot apart, hands clasped in front of his groin, face expressionless]. And they all played with their rings. Well, those are two things I did a lot during Saturday Night Fever. Just kind of hands in front, real cool, playing with the rings, checking it out.

I used that in the scene where I went to Stephanie's house and I met her boyfriend. I'm sort of awkward; I'm in that purple shirt and black-leather jacket. So when you're awkward, what do you do? You put your hands together in front and you ground yourself--trying to remain cool and solid. It worked perfectly.

[Q]Playboy: So, like many other actors, your technique is based on observation.

[A]Travolta: And I'm very good at imitating. Show me a person, a specific character type, and I'll probably get an excellent imitation down. I also get behind a person's attitude. When I lived in New York, I made up a lot of characters. J used to call it my "bag of characters." I would very easily go into one in a restaurant or a department store and I thought nothing of embarrassing myself or the person who was with me.

[Q]Playboy: Give us a character or two from the bag.

[A]Travolta: There's one I called Strip--not too sophisticated, but he was real macho. I'd do him a lot. He can sort of slip in and out without being too obvious. Or there's your typical New Yorker father character. I'd slip into that and reprimand whoever was with me. And I had a Bowery-bum character--a kind of wine-drinking bum, but real vulgar. You know, if you didn't give him money, he called you a name like fucking faggot!

From the roles I've played, people probably have the idea that I've got to have some sort of evil pool of knowledge to work from. Look at the movies that I've been in: Carrie, Saturday Night Fever and Grease. The first two are foul-mouthed, hard-edged characters. But it's all been just observation.

[Q]Playboy: Since you mentioned Carrie, we have to ask about that scene in which you get a blow job. That couldn't have been, well, real, could it?

[A]Travolta: In all fairness to the actress, Nancy Allen . . . no, it wasn't.

[Q]Playboy: What a terrific acting job.

[A]Travolta: Thank you.

[Q]Playboy: Another example of just imitating someone else's performance?

[A]Travolta: No. Total recall. [Laughs] It was something I had experienced and was re-creating.

[Q]Playboy: Have you tried to analyze why Saturday Night Fever has had such a social impact?

[A]Travolta: Yes. No one thought it was bullshit. It was just cold, it was hard language, it was hard-driving, it was real. Everything had a cold reality to it. I'm proud of it because it's one of the most realistic films I've ever seen. I mean, when I first watched it, I was in pain, because I felt I was invading these characters' lives. I was uncomfortable watching what I was doing with that character. I felt like I was really exposing him. Does that sound strange? There were times I wanted to turn my head away because I was seeing someone say and do things that you only say and do in private. I had to see it three times before I relaxed watching it. I felt like I had exposed a lot, but not necessarily of me--of the character that I made up.

[Q]Playboy: Realism is one thing, but we were referring to the fact that the film seemed to serve as a catalyst for the current disco phenomenon.

[A]Travolta: I can understand it, because there is a side to the film that's exciting and flashy, and that's the thing that sticks with people. It's fun to go out dancing, and maybe it's not any more complicated than that. I think that I've allowed men to feel free. My character, Tony, was sort of that down-to-earth, macho, straightforward guy. He worked in a paint store. He had a family with which people could identify. He had a rough mouth. So there's nothing to lead you to think this guy could dance. But then, when he did, he did it with such conviction and pride. It was important that he was dancing. There was nothing unmasculine about it. It was like a sport. And it had romance in it, it had sex in it. It was sexy to watch. And I think people started saying, "I want to do that, too, because it looks so good."

[Q]Playboy: How responsible were the Bee Gees for making the film a hit?

[A]Travolta: Oh, I think that it was a real 50-50 situation. Without the effect they created, it still would have been a hit, but it wouldn't have been the gigantic thing that it was.

[Q]Playboy: Did you get a percentage of the sales of the sound-track album?

[A]Travolta: Yes.

[Q]Playboy: It grossed well over $100,000,000. If you had as little as one percent, it would make you a rich man.

[A]Travolta: I don't like to give misrepresentations of what I make, because sometimes I think that it's blown out of proportion.

[Q]Playboy: You don't want people to think you're rich?

[A]Travolta: It's such a generalization that all stars are rich. Because you are blown out of proportion as a presence, the financial picture is also blown out of proportion. I've been advised not to discuss specific figures.

[Q]Playboy: It's certainly a lot of money in a very short time. When you were a kid in school, did you think you'd be singled out this way?

[A]Travolta: No. Especially since I really wasn't that good a student; I was always cutting up and jiving. I was always more interested in anything other than what was going on in the classroom. And I was more interested in making people laugh. I got in trouble a lot by talking--telling someone next to me something stupid or funny.

[Q]Playboy: You were a high school dropout. Do you feel insecure about your lack of formal education?

[A]Travolta: Sure, But, for some reason, I don't think that has anything to do with intelligence. I may not have formal education, but I've got instincts and I trust my instincts. Many of the brightest people I know have no formal education.

[Q]Playboy: But you're familiar with the old show-business truism that good actors are dumb?

[A]Travolta: Is this The Newlywed Game, or what? That's the dumbest truism I've ever heard. An insane generalization. Re-ask the question and I'll answer it.

[Q]Playboy: OK. How intelligent do you think you are?

[A]Travolta: That's the dumbest question I've ever heard. It's sort of unfair. Because, on the one hand, I don't want to feel like an egotist, but on the other, I have confidence in my intelligence.

[Q]Playboy: Then why were you so turned off by academics?

[A]Travolta: When I was in high school, all they ever seemed to talk about was the Vietnam war. I didn't have much interest in the Vietnam war. I had more interest in why it felt so bad to be in school. So I took a psychology class, because I wanted to find out what was making me tick. And when they would go into all this talk, I'd say, "Look, why are we avoiding the problem?" And they'd say, "John, what's the problem?" And I'd say, "The problem is none of us are happy right now. When we come to school, we're unhappy, and we're talking about everyone else's problems--let's talk about the suppression that's going on here." And it was always avoided.

I always felt that if I could solve what was going on inside, maybe we'd have further insight into what was going on out there. I had to handle my personal hang-ups before I could handle the Vietnam war. And I had to feel that I could handle what was going on with me, my family and my friends before I could handle the world.

[Q]Playboy: Any other pleasant memories from that period?

[A]Travolta: I remember a real heartbreaker. In seventh grade, there was this girl, Mary Jo. And all my friends kept teasing me that this girl liked me. Well, she was sort of a strange-looking little girl, and everyone would make fun of her. So they kept on saying, "John, Mary Jo likes you," and they made up all kinds of stuff. Finally, I saw her at an assembly and I tapped her shoulder and I said, "Look, I don't like you. Just stop talking to everyone about me." Imagine someone turning around and saying that to you--and this girl was totally innocent. I mean, it was like total invalidation. Well, the look on her face was so devastating that I'm still not over that. Because that was the cruelest thing that I had ever done. And it all had been fabricated by my friends.

[Q]Playboy: Were you good-looking in those days?

[A]Travolta: I wasn't really a good-looking teenager. As a matter of fact, I was pretty awkward-looking. My nose was too big for my face. I was very skinny--out of proportion, if you know what I mean. I just started growing into my looks three or four years ago.

When I was eight, I was a total greaser. My brother was a greaser and my sisters all hung out with the tough kids, right? So I wore short, black, tight pants, pointed black shoes and a white shirt with the collar and the sleeves rolled up. Well, do you know what kind of effect that made when I walked into a Catholic school? No one looked like me.

Then there was a crossover period between West Side Story and the Beatles. I had Bernardo shoes, a Beatle haircut, McCartney's silver-sharkskin suit with tight short pants and white socks. I was a real rebel, and that was what was cool to me at the time.

[Q]Playboy: What were the summers like in Englewood, New Jersey?

[A]Travolta: Summer meant a lot of hanging out in the park, getting into trouble a little more than you did before. It meant a lot of listening to music.

[Q]Playboy: Such as?

[A]Travolta: Tammi Terrell, Four Tops, Temptations, Marvin Gaye, all of that. I was a great black dancer.

And I can remember summer dusks. We'd sit by the sewer, underneath the street lamp, smoke a little bit and wait for the lights to go on at nine o'clock.

[Q]Playboy: Did you ever venture into Manhattan?

[A]Travolta: The first trips I made into New York were when my brother was in the Service and my father would pick him up at the bus terminal. I'd walk 42nd Street with my father and we'd go into all the cheap gift stores and look at all the radios and things, and then we'd have a hot dog and wait for my brother. That was early Sixties. During the late Sixties, it was more of a hippie scene. You went to the Village to get bell-bottoms. It was incense stores, a lot of long-haired people, a whole thing that I didn't identify with at all.

[Q]Playboy: Let's jump ahead a few years. When you moved to Los Angeles permanently in 1974, were you thinking strictly in terms of a film career?

[A]Travolta: At that time, there were too many serious film directors interested in me to ever think that I wouldn't end up in films.

[Q]Playboy: Then you must have had second thoughts about signing a five-year TV contract.

[A]Travolta: Well, I did, actually. Except that when I put all the facts together, it was a great part and I was very suited for it. And, to be perfectly honest, I was not about to turn down work.

[Q]Playboy: Who made the final decision to sign the Welcome Back, Kotter contract?

[A]Travolta: I did. Because I really wanted the job. I figured you don't know if a series is going to run five years, first of all, and we didn't even know if it would go 13 weeks. Also, before the first episode even aired, Brian De Palma asked me to do Carrie. And shortly after that, Terry Malick asked me to do Days of Heaven. So what you're getting here is two important film makers who asked me to do films in spite of the TV series.

[Q]Playboy: Gabe Kaplan created Kotter as a star vehicle for himself, but during the first season, you emerged as the star of the show. Did that cause ill feelings?

[A]Travolta: No. And I'm being honest with you. I remember, even before the first show aired, [producer] Jimmy Komack said, "I don't know which one of you guys is going to take over." So they were expecting a supporting character to take over the show, I was just excited to be part of it, whatever happened. We were just trying to get as much mileage out of it as possible.

[Q]Playboy: And part of that mileage included the dubious distinction of being a teen idol, right?

[A]Travolta: Yeah, and that was really a fleeting thing. It's something that can burn out so quickly. I tried to ignore it and go with more serious acting. I didn't want my career to be over tomorrow. The smartest thing I did was, in the worst of the heat, I chose the right things. Instead of going the PR route, I did what I wanted to do. I never did a talk show; instead, I did a play in summer stock. I did Carrie. I never once went with something that: I hadn't planned on.

[Q]Playboy: But you did accept a record contract. Did you make any other merchandising deals?

[A]Travolta: When the offers came up. I made legitimate deals. I was being ripped off left and right, they were gonna do it anyway, so I said, "I'll sign a deal." It ended up not being that good, anyway. So I did participate in the merchandising, but I never promoted it.

I got offers to go on the road and do concert tours that you wouldn't believe! God, the money I turned down. I got offers to appear for, like, an hour for $25,000. Just to show up someplace and sign autographs. They didn't want my ability, they wanted my presence. It's building up personality as opposed to ability.

I had no money when I first became popular. I was getting very little on the show. So for money, I went to two automobile shows, and I think it was the worst I'd ever felt as a person. It was awful, just signing autographs. But when you're starting out, you have no choice. I was clearing $700 a week on Kotter the first year, and out of that I paid a manager, a publicist, all the people on a big program. But I had no money to pay for them. So I did a telethon and the two auto shows for 1000 bucks apiece. After the third one, I said, "Boy, I think I'll just do without the money." What's interesting is that then the bigger things started to happen.

[Q]Playboy: Were you offered your own series after the first season?

[A]Travolta: I think I was, actually. But I was successful as a supporting character and there were too many other things happening. Too many movie offers.

[Q]Playboy: Such as?

[A]Travolta: I had done Carrie the year before and had gone into preproduction for Days of Heaven, but because of the Kotter schedule, I couldn't do it. And when I was down in the dumps, depressed because I couldn't do it, one week later, Stigwood came up with a deal that at that point was mind-boggling.

Playboy: You're referring to the three-picture, $1,000,000-plus package with the Robert Stigwood Organization.

Travolta: Right.

Playboy: In spite of the previous film offers, wasn't it mostly your television success that attracted Stigwood?

Travolta: I don't think Stigwood would have signed me if he didn't think I was somewhat bankable. But being perfectly honest, that wasn't the sole reason. The reason stated to me was that he really liked my talent and signed me because he thought I could be a film star. I can only go on what he told me. He auditioned me for Jesus Christ Superstar way back when I was 17, right? And he showed me what he had written on a yellow pad he had saved from that audition: "This kid will be a very big star," or something like that.

Of course, he had to think, Well, he is a bit bankable, and he is right for this property that I've already bought--he can dance. I don't think you could have put David Cassidy or Bobby Sherman or any other teen idol into Saturday Night Fever. They wouldn't have been physically right.

Playboy: If you had been able to predict the success of Saturday Night Fever and the validation you received as a serious actor, would you prefer not to have followed it with Grease?

Travolta: Well, I really didn't have a choice. They came together; they weren't individual offers.

Playboy: So when you signed the R.S.O. deal, you wanted to do Grease?

Travolta: I had done the Broadway show and I really wanted to do the film. But I'll be honest--on one hand, there was some . . . concern about doing it, because it certainly was a different caliber of film from Days of Heaven. On the other hand, I was saying, "I'm glad, because there are three films offered here, and at least I can make up for the loss of Days of Heaven."

Playboy: How have you taken the terrible reviews that Grease has been dealt?

Travolta:Grease has gotten a lot of good reviews. Depends on which ones you're reading.

Playboy: The ones we read were awful.

Travolta: The play never got good reviews, either, but the public has loved it. The critics have never tuned into it.

Playboy: Don't you think the screen version was watered down to get the PG rating?

Travolta: Look, the extra little bite that the play had, I missed in the movie version. Yet it was made up for with the musical numbers, and it still captured some of the charm that the play had.

Playboy: But wasn't it stretching things a bit to make Sandy an Australian transfer student?

Travolta: Well, I don't think that there's a better choice for Sandy than Olivia Newton-John. Swear to you. Because it was my idea.

Playboy: How's that?

Travolta: I suggested it to my manager. The first thing that I thought of was Olivia Newton-John, because I had seen all the Sandys and they were all very good, but it needed a star. And there was no star I could think of better than Olivia. She had the perfect quality.

The saddest thing that I felt about Grease and the critical reviews was that everyone was taking it far too seriously. You don't compare Grease with Saturday Night Fever. You don't compare Grease with any dramatic film. Grease is a light, funny musical. And that's all it is. Everyone reviewed it like a serious documentary on the Fifties.

Playboy: In a couple of interviews, you've compared yourself in Grease to Marlon Brando in Guys and Dolls.

Travolta: I was just giving a reference point. People who are considered serious dramatic actors have done musicals.

Playboy: Speaking of Olivia Newton-John, would you like to confirm or deny the romantic rumors?

Travolta: That she's having my baby?

Playboy: That's the spirit. We knew we'd get the real, untold story. In a more realistic vein, what's the story behind your forming your own company after your Stigwood contract expired?

Travolta: Travolta Productions is an opportunity for me to produce my own films. For a couple of reasons: one, total creative control. Two, the same financial sharing that Stigwood has in his pictures.

Playboy: We heard you were angry because Stigwood wouldn't renegotiate your contract before your third starring film, Moment by Moment. After the huge success of Saturday Night Fever, didn't you ask for more money?

Travolta: Stigwood gave me more money.

Playboy: How much more?

Travolta: Double my percentage and double my salary.

Playboy: Will you put that in dollars and cents for us?

Travolta: All I can say is that it was double what it had been and that I have no hostility toward the man.

Playboy: Lily Tomlin is your co-star in Moment by Moment. How did that come about?

Travolta: I went to see her in her one-woman show in New York and I told Stigwood I wanted to get a project with her because she was so incredible. I think Lily is one of the most brilliant talents that we have or have had. Every time I see her, I'm overwhelmed.

Playboy: That sounds a little sweet to us.

Travolta: I'm giving you a totally honest opinion. There are very few people I have that reaction to. So whether it sounds sweet or not, it's pure. There's no reason for me to bullshit.

Playboy: Lily's longtime collaborator, Jane Wagner, wrote and directed Moment. Do you see it as a woman's film, if there is such a thing?

Travolta: I think that the film sometimes takes the viewpoint of Lily's story. If you were to generalize and say men were more into the macho, action kind of films and that women were more into the love story with romantic needs, then you might say that it's a woman's film.

You're talking to a person who is more tuned into women's performances than into men's performances, because of the emotional content. I get much more turned on watching what women go through on the screen--I tend to tune into women's points of view.

Playboy: Is this role a turning point for you?

Travolta: Yes, and not just for me. This may be a turning point in film, because you're seeing a man for the first time go through as much emotional change and coloration as women have in the past.

Playboy: Isn't the subject matter controversial, dealing with the love affair between a younger man and an older woman?

Travolta: Yeah, these are two totally different characters that you've never seen before on the screen. I really think the film can make a statement and a breakthrough if the timing is right and the people are ready to look at these characters.

Playboy: Do you consider your character to be the prototype of a new kind of leading man?

Travolta: I think it will be a shock for a lot of people. This is a young man with hardly any social defenses. He is stripped of them and, for some reason, has been saved the need to react in any way other than directly, emotionally. There's no bullshit involved--he just reacts openly. Maybe he expresses himself the way a woman wants a man to express himself; he deals directly without feeling inhibited. He's just so blatantly honest and vulnerable that it's a new, yet identifiable, character. And the broader statement the film could make is that it could take the edge off age; it could take the edge off sexist points of view.

Playboy: Do you think this character is identifiable on a mass level?

Travolta: Yeah, I think you have definitely met someone with his qualities. I mean, people should identify with his quality of restless innocence.

Playboy: Will your audience accept your playing a character other than a punk?

Travolta: Well, maybe this is an important time for me to change. If I did a couple of more movies in that genre, maybe it would be just too familiar. I'll tell you something interesting--everyone bought The Boy in a Plastic Bubble [a made-for-TV movie] and there wasn't a trace of anything I had done before in that film. This character is like that. I have a feeling that if you do your character with enough conviction, and it's believable and it's good, and it's got dimension and color and all that stuff going for it, people will buy it.

Playboy: During the filming of Moment, reports of emotional confrontations on the set were widely circulated.

Travolta: Lily and I work similarly. We're both very concerned, very emotional and very sensitive about our work. But there's too much regard for each other's opinion to ever have fights. I want to make it clear that my concern for making things go right was not a selfish one. The idea is not to prove each other wrong or right; the idea is to get the product out there. It's kind of the same thing with good musicians who work together. It's not a fight with "My lick is better than your lick." It's "Let's make this work." So if it meant getting emotional, all that stuff was part of it.

What I'm saying is that we can all converse. It's really on a level of mutual exchange, not power plays. And it never is with me, I swear to you. If I feel strongly about something, my instincts usually are right. And if I'm really sure about something, I'll fight for my opinion.

Playboy: Did you fight for Jane Wagner when R.S.O. supposedly considered replacing her with another director?

Travolta: I never knew they were considering dropping her.

Playboy: Really?

Travolta: Really. Never to my knowledge.

Playboy: Come on, now. It was being talked about all over Hollywood.

Travolta: I don't think it was true. If it was, I was never directly told about it--I'd chalk it up to rumor. The only thing that did happen was, I changed my interpretation of the character a little bit, and we did a couple of scenes over again, and then, because of the situation, I think that it got blown out of proportion.

This happens because I'm a new star. No one comments on Warren Beatty's control anymore, or Robert Redford's or Paul Newman's. They've proven themselves. But if a new, upcoming artist tries to make his product better, it's blown out of proportion. And I think that's unfortunate, because all I want is the best picture possible. Do I need to prove to the public or the industry that I have the power to do it? Someone said to me, "How do you expect to get the best directors to work with you when you have final cut?" I said, "If I want the best director, I'll give him final cut. At least I have it to give up."

Playboy: Do you have any control over the editing of Moment by Moment?

Travolta: No. I can only make suggestions.

Playboy: But you'll have final cut on your next film, American Gigolo?

Travolta: The director, Paul Schrader, and I will control the outcome of American Gigolo. And Paul would not have gotten final cut if I hadn't been able to give it to him. If I hadn't asked for it in my contract, Paramount would have controlled it.

Playboy: Your production company has signed a two-picture development deal in conjunction with Orion, right? What is Orion?

Travolta: It's an independent distribution company made up of five guys, all of whom left United Artists last year. The truth is that they subsidize my production company right now until I make a film.

Playboy: How did your contract with Orion come about?

Travolta: What happened was this: Orion offered me a development deal. Paramount offered me any picture that I wanted to do there, plus a development deal.

Playboy: But there was more money involved with Orion?

Travolta: No. Paramount basically said they'd match whatever Orion offered, and I was interested in two projects at Paramount: American Gigolo and Godfather III. Neither of those required me as a producer, only as an actor. So the difference came down to the development side, and Paramount wasn't offering the same thing as Orion. Orion already had a reputation for giving artists much more freedom, and they were the first to offer me final cut on a development deal. I went with that.

Playboy: Do you have any present commitments?

Travolta: I'm committed to American Gigolo. Nothing after that. So my next film could be an Orion/John Travolta Production.

Playboy: Tell us a little about American Gigolo.

Travolta: It's about a high-class gigolo who works the Beverly Hills/Bel Air circuit. He originates in the streets, and in order to break into the higher-class gigolo areas, he has to become sophisticated, elegant, poised, gracious and knowledgeable. He studies other languages. He's very proud of what he does, but he has a problem: He gets off on pleasing women. So when he finds a woman he could possibly stay with, there's a struggle to conform to his lifestyle. I don't want to give the plot away, but it's about this man's struggle for survival in his profession, plus a murder subplot.

Playboy: And Schrader wrote the script.

Travolta: Yeah. And I think this is his best work. It's the only script he's written in which the characters are redeemable.

Playboy: Do you always look for characters who will gain the audience's sympathy?

Travolta: Well, it's not sympathy. I guess it comes from my belief that man is basically good as opposed to someone else's belief that man is basically evil. I don't mind showing evil if you can give a reference point. It's more exciting to me to see someone dark redeem himself.

Playboy: Speaking of evil, who owns the film rights to the novel Interview with the Vampire?

Travolta: Paramount. But my manager has been assigned to produce it.

Playboy: Have you read the book?

Travolta: No, I've read the first screenplay of it, and right now it doesn't interest me. It has one quality that sort of fascinated me, the story of his pained existence. But even as a kid, I never really tuned into the Dracula movies. So right now, I'm not that interested in doing it, but that could change. I mean, if a brilliant screenplay is written, I could go for it. But apparently I'm supposed to read the book to get more excited by it.

Playboy: Will you be in the sequel to Saturday Night Fever?

Travolta: No! [Laughs] But not because I couldn't make a fortune doing that.

Playboy: It must be nice to be able to write off millions of dollars with a laugh.

Travolta: From a totally artistic point of view, I don't know if I have anything more to say about that character.

Playboy: Have you ever thought about making a rock-oriented movie?

Travolta: I'm certainly open to ideas. I was offered the Elvis Presley story.

Playboy: You were?

Travolta: A couple times over.

Playboy: Is that an idea you haven't written off?

Travolta: Well, at first I did, but I think Gary Busey's interpretation of Buddy Holly sort of made me look again. I do think Elvis Presley is too identifiable. Buddy Holly was not a universally familiar artist. Therefore, Busey's interpretation was almost original. If I could have the same effect that Gary Busey did, and I think I have the tools to do it, that could be interesting.

Playboy: Is there any type of role--comedic, romantic, dramatic--that you are afraid to try?

Travolta: No. It may sound rather strange, but I've always felt that I could do whatever I wanted in any area. If I like the script, I'm not frightened by the challenge.

Playboy: Do you consider yourself a leading man or a character actor?

Travolta: You're asking a difficult question, because I approach every role as a character. I never think in terms of leading men or nonleading men. To me, they're all character roles. What do you consider me?

Playboy: We're asking the questions.

Travolta: I know you're doing the interview, but I'm just curious.

Playboy: Can we reserve our opinion until after we see Moment by Moment?

Travolta: Sure. I think the concept of leading man creates an image that is opposed to everything that I've done so far, including Moment by Moment, Gigolo is probably the closest thing to a leading man that I have played so far--and maybe that will be my thing. But to get back to your original question, I feel like if I have to be a leading man, I'll be a leading man. I don't feel threatened by any new ground. I hope it doesn't sound egotistical.

Playboy: You may have a right to sound that way--we heard that you were offered $300,000 a week in Las Vegas.

Travolta: Right.

Playboy: Will you take it?

Travolta: That's a great offer, but I don't want to do it right now.

Playboy: What's the most outrageous offer you've turned down this year?

Travolta: The greatest offer this year came in a letter from a woman who sent pictures of herself and her dancing school, and it looked like she had sort of a hip outfit going. Her letter was well written and it seemed like she was a bright lady, but what it said was, "I will pay you as much as ten dollars an hour to come up here and teach a class for me." And then something at the end like, "I know this offer will be hard to refuse." [Laughs]

Playboy: You sound as if you're pretty secure financially. Surely, you must realize that as you move away from the teen market, you'll probably never match the box-office success you experienced with Saturday Night Fever.

Travolta: Or Grease, for that matter. To try to get films that will make that kind of money, and to go into competition with myself on every film from now on would be silly. I mean, it's possible that I'll do it again, but I don't think that I can do it with every project. So it's almost like you're starting from scratch with each job. Just because I made it through one project with flying colors doesn't mean anything. You have to work just as hard to make yourself that good in the next one.

Thank God I have the freedom to do whatever I'd like right now. And, hopefully, your integrity tells you that you should do what you want as an artist and what you think makes the important statement. Because that's what got me here to begin with.

The three Stigwood films--probably the most successful three-picture deal ever--have three youth-oriented characters that, because of my own age at the time Moment ended, all belong to an age category that I almost have to stop playing. I've made my statement on that age category, and the Gigolo character is in his late 20s. He's an adult.

Playboy: So your future films will be adult-oriented?

Travolta: Yes, though I won't go as far as to say that if something youth-oriented fascinated me, I wouldn't go back and do it. All I'm saying is that it looks like what's ahead for me are scripts set in the adult world--like American Gigolo and Godfather III.

Playboy: Has your co-star for American Gigolo been picked?

Travolta: We were after Julie Christie for that, but she's not going to be able to do it. She seemed like the perfect one, so I haven't really thought about who else might do it.

Playboy: Who else would you like to work with, generally speaking?

Travolta: Well, I got my one wish and that was Lily. She was right on the top of my list.

Playboy: You've mentioned your admiration for Lily Tomlin, and you were deeply involved with Diana Hyland, who was 18 years older than you. Are you attracted to older women?

Travolta: I don't think age has anything to do with it. If you saw a line-up of all the women I've been with, you'd see a lot of different ages. In fact, you'd say they had nothing in common.

Playboy: You told us at the outset of this interview that you'd prefer not to talk about Diana Hyland again. [Actress Hyland died of cancer during the filming of Saturday Night Fever.] We respect that, but we'd like to ask why you talked about her to David Frost on television. It seemed an uncomfortable situation.

Travolta: It was. When he asked about Diana, I was very nervous, and I could only be totally honest. But it was an invasion of my private thoughts. It was a self-conscious thing, because he was dealing with a subject that was very close to me. I just don't like to talk about Diana in interviews.

Playboy: OK. How do most women react today when they meet you?

Travolta: I think everyone's reaction is different. A lot of times, because I've been blown up out of proportion, they become more self-conscious. They're completely preoccupied with themselves; they're not perceiving how I am. They're thinking, How am I coming off? What will he think of me?

Playboy: Do you think most women are attracted by the approach of your Saturday Night Fever character, Tony Manero? The punk macho attitude?

Travolta: I'd say that Tony had a typical approach to women, in certain ways, but what balanced it out was that those women had a typical approach to him. The thing about Tony is that you know he has a sensitivity at a higher level. There is potential there for a tasteful, tactful man. If he falls in love with someone, he isn't likely to say, "Hey, give me a blow job, just suck my cock."

Playboy: You obviously encounter your share of groupies. Have you ever taken advantage?

Travolta: No, there are enough people I already know that I'm attracted to. I don't pick up strangers.

Playboy: Then you're not exactly lonely these days.

Travolta: Right.

Playboy: Do you have a girlfriend?

Travolta: A couple.

Playboy: We're still amazed that you haven't just grabbed----

Travolta: I've been grabbed.

Playboy: Would you care to elaborate?

Travolta: Well, I'll tell you about the time I was attacked at the Academy Awards. They weren't prepared for the reaction I got when I walked in. And what happened was that one girl actually broke down the barriers and jumped my head. I was brought down a bit as my head was snapped back. So it was not only the feeling of the fingernails in my face but the pressure of feeling my neck snap backward. It was like a scene from The Day of the Locust. And the same thing happened at the Grease opening.

Playboy: Has it reached the point where the crowds frighten you?

Travolta: Yeah, because I don't feel in control. The thing I don't understand is that when this has happened, no one has been prepared. Both times, my manager warned them to get protection and no one did it.

Playboy: How bad are the crowds elsewhere?

Travolta: Basically, what I've found out by going to Paris and Milan is that I've become an international star. The hysteria there is about equal. All the restaurants had Fever playing and the theater in Milan had it playing seven months. And in Israel I hear it's just bananas, and in Paris it's still running. So there is a great sense of accomplishment internationally--it was exciting.

Playboy: But pretty restrictive, we imagine.

Travolta: Yes. I couldn't go to any of the museums in Paris or anything like that, because of the tourists.

Playboy: Has it become a pain to deal with on a day-to-day basis?

Travolta: I've tried to accept it as a fact of my life now, and I try not to let it get to me. To try to ignore it and say it doesn't exist or just ride over it would be lying. Some days it's annoying, other days it's fine, depending on how much nourishment I need. [Laughs]

Playboy: Have you thought about hiring a bodyguard?

Travolta: The fact is that I should, but it's strange; when I'm in a situation where I think I need them, I get them. But I really haven't hired one full time, because I try to make my life as normal as possible. Having a bodyguard with you all the time would be the last straw. Say goodbye to your privacy. I want to hold on to that last bit of being a regular person when I'm in public.

Playboy: Immediately after you were jumped at the Academy Awards ceremony, didn't you present the first Oscar?

Travolta: Yes.

Playboy: You must have been shaken.

Travolta: I was so nervous I didn't know where I was that night. I was sort of stunned that I was even there. I mean, you've got to imagine this: Here I am, my first film, and to be nominated after all those memories of watching the Oscars when you're a kid--and I mean, I was even up against a line-up that sounded real official.

Playboy: We'd call Richard Dreyfuss, Woody Allen and Richard Burton a respectable group.

Travolta: Definitely heavy company. So I felt like I was there but I shouldn't be. It was very much like a dream. Like, I had a dream the other night that I had to fight Muhammad Ali. And there I was in shorts and boxing gloves and I had committed to fight him. Now, imagine that I had the confidence in my dream even to be there. Within the dream I was scared to death, but I was there, ready to fight him. And I called him and told him all this. Well, it was a similar kind of thing at the Oscars. It was like I was there, but I didn't quite believe that I should be there. Or that it was just a fantasy, as if no time had elapsed since I was a kid, and there I was in the middle of my daydream.

Playboy: Let's go back to your female admirers. Haven't you thought of taking home one of the beauties who've waited hours in line, just to get into the Kotter audience?

Travolta: I'm not saying I haven't thought about it. I'm just saying that I've never done it. And I can count on one hand how many times I've been approached by groupies.

Playboy: Aren't women more aggressive toward you now?

Travolta: I think they're a little more inhibited. As a matter of fact, a woman will take five or ten minutes to explain why she's there, as opposed to a couple of years ago, when they came on more directly.

Playboy: So success has had a definite effect on your relationship with women.

Travolta: I feel that I'm leaning more toward people that I knew before than getting involved with new people.

Playboy: Do you more closely examine the motives and the sincerity of the people you meet now?

Travolta: Oh, I think so, absolutely. Do you think I'm good at it?

Playboy: How would we know?

Travolta: Well, I think I'm a very good judge. I react to how a person handles a responsibility that affects me. If a person cares about what he does, I can react to that. And I think I react to artists who care about the effect of their work on you. I hand-pick people like that. When it comes to whom I want to be with, or whom I would favor in a relationship, that's what I tune into. It exceeds just a general presence or goodness or charisma.

Playboy: Has success changed your sexual attitudes or habits?

Travolta: I've probably become a little freer. I guess I feel like I'm OK. Maybe I'm more in tune with expressing myself sexually. But who cares? If you really think about it, do you spend a whole lot of time thinking about other people's sex lives? I don't. I sure don't go around thinking about stars' sex lives. I just don't. I may fantasize having sex with someone, though.

Playboy: Whom have you had sexual fantasies about?

Travolta: Well, Jane Fonda, for one. I don't necessarily like to think of Jane Fonda's sex life, but I may like to think of having sex with Jane Fonda. . . . You have a lot of sex in this interview, don't you?

Playboy: We were just about to change the subject--from sex to religion. You're a Scientologist. Do you try to avoid talking about it with the press?

Travolta: Only if I sense that the questions are going to be antagonistic. I find that people who are honestly curious about it come in with a much more open viewpoint.

Playboy: We're curious as to why you're associated with a movement, or a religion, that elicits such negative reactions. Why, for instance, would People magazine, on its cover, call Scientology a "bizarre cult"?

Travolta: As far as People magazine goes, it's probably for the same reason it wrote about "vampire blood" in the article, which I think is the most laughable thing I've ever heard.

Playboy: It sounds as though you distrust the reporting in People.

Travolta: Only because I had three cover stories and the integrity of the magazine is questionable. When I read such articles as "Bizarre Religious Cult" or something dealing with vampire blood, I can't even begin to judge it seriously. The taste of the entire magazine is totally questionable to me. The way they handled Diana [Hyland's death] was so distasteful--I mean, that whole point of view was so exploitative. They have no limits as to how far they'll go.

Playboy: To stay on the subject, three years ago, you were in psychoanalysis. Why did you switch to Scientology?

Travolta: I found out there was less room for mistakes because of a specific technique for locating past experiences and resolving one's own case. Case meaning your history or problems or whatever you want to handle.

Playboy: How did you get interested?

Travolta: Through an actress friend.

Playboy: Why did it seem attractive?

Travolta: Because it applied an actual technology to the same approach used in analysis to handle neurosis. It really fascinated me, so I said, "I'm gonna try this." And it seemed to get the best results of anything that I had tried.

Playboy: You're saying it was more effective than psychoanalysis; what problems did it help you overcome? Were you better able to handle Diana's death? Or your success?

Travolta: Well, let's say if I had trouble in those areas, that was definitely somewhere that I went to handle it. For instance, let's say that everything that could possibly have gone wrong in a two-week period went wrong. Because of my name, I was ripped off in a plane deal and in a car deal. They hiked the price up to double the amount. Or every time I answered the phone, something went wrong. Now, if it had been three years ago, I probably would have gone under. I don't know what I would have done. Instead, I'm at this interview with you right now and I'm fairly sane. I guarantee you I could not have been this sane three years ago.

That's how it's helped me. I'm able to handle myself 100 percent better than before I got into Scientology. Some days when I am about to cave in before I shoot, I can handle it. A couple of years ago, I would have been bad onscreen. I feel like I've grown up, in a sense. Before, I couldn't handle more than one or two things at a time; now I can handle a hundred things and still do my work.

Playboy: Do you recommend Scientology to others?

Travolta: Sure. If you came to me with a problem, I would probably suggest that. But I wouldn't suggest it unless you felt you needed help.

Playboy: Do you feel exploited by the church of Scientology when your name is used to endorse church-sponsored seminars?

Travolta: First of all, they cannot use my name unless I've allowed them to use it. And I feel if you believe in something or stand up for it, you have to go with it--you can't deny it or fear reaction. Whether people view Scientology as right or wrong, it has helped me. It has worked for me, in a productive and supportive way.

Playboy: So you don't feel exploited?

Travolta: I don't, because I think I have control over endorsements.

Playboy: Did it bother you to be associated with Scientology in People's article about the criminal charges against the church's leaders?

Travolta: Sure, it bothered me that my picture was in that article, but, again, Scientologists didn't put that picture in there, People magazine did. It boils down to freedom of the press. I can be connected with anything at any time, whether it's true or not. At least the quote under my picture was correct.

They did that much.

Playboy: Do you give a percentage of your earnings to Scientology?

Travolta: No, I don't. If you want a course, you pay for a course. I get so upset when I hear all the rumors. If people only took the time to study it and find out what it's about. But, instead, what they do is say, "What do you hear about Scientology? Oh, really? Geez." It has as much rumor to it as a movie set.

Why should I have to defend it? If something works for me and people ask a question, what I should say is, "It works for me, no more comment." But, instead, I go around trying to clean it up so people have a better understanding, so they don't go around thinking----

Playboy: Vampire blood?

Travolta: Exactly.

Playboy: Still, you haven't discussed the Federal indictments that charged church officials with burglary, bugging and conspiracy.

Travolta: I guess I don't feel they need my defense. There are two sides to the story, but I don't know both sides. I wish I could give you a more concrete response to what's happening with the Government, but I'm not involved with that. Someone could deface and destroy Scientology and I'd still use the technology I know from it. It's too real for me. It's too significant.

Playboy: Whatever the controversy surrounding Scientology, and your belief in it, you must have other ways of relaxing, easing the tension.

Travolta: Whenever I have spare time, I like to fly, and that's about the only thing I get in. I used to see movies in my spare time, but movies now have become part of my work because of the production company. So any movie that I have to see I can privately screen at the studio.

Playboy: You own an Air Coupe and a DC-3, right?

Travolta: I sold the Air Coupe and I bought a Rockwell 114 to replace it, and I still have the DC-3.

Playboy: What else do you spend your money on?

Travolta: Well, it's not that I'm frugal, but I just don't spend that much money. I probably would be extravagant if I had things to be extravagant about. I love airplanes and cars, and I've been extravagant about both of those things. But once you've got a couple of cars and a couple of planes, it's like . . . that's it.

Playboy: We read that you gave $5000 to your older brother Joey, to help him get started in show business. Have your sisters and your other brother opted for Hollywood as well?

Travolta: Well, I have three sisters. Ellen's my oldest sister and she's living with me. She had a stage background and is now doing a lot of television and film work out here. My sister Margaret lives in Chicago and she is doing commercials. And there's Annie, who lived in New Jersey and has just moved out here. And I just helped my brother Sam get a job at Paramount as a propmaster's apprentice. Now that Sam is moving out here, there's no one left in New Jersey. That's what my parents were waiting for. So they'll probably move out here in a couple of months.

Playboy: Do you spend much time with your family?

Travolta: I don't get to see them that much. I try to, but it's very rare that we can all get together. It usually happens on a holiday. I would say I average seeing everyone about three times a year. That's not bad.

Playboy: The fact that one of your sisters does commercials reminds us that you once made a memorable tearjerker for Mutual of New York, in which you played a teenager whose father had died.

Travolta: It's interesting that you remember that. That commercial got a lot of attention. Hal Ashby saw it during a basketball game and called my manager in connection with the movie he was doing at that time--that was a year before Kotter started and I was still in New York. It's amazing how 30 seconds can have that kind of impact. When I met Jack Nicholson, like six months ago, he didn't mention Saturday Night Fever. He said, "You were on that great commercial; I remember you from then."

Playboy: You made that commercial in 1974, when you were dreaming of success. Now that you've got it, does it still seem important?

Travolta: Oh, yeah. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't have been very happy without success. If you want to take it to the real basics, when I was a kid and watched artists that I loved, that excited me. They gave me joy; I wanted to create the same effect for someone else. And that's the full cycle. It's not as selfish as it may seem on many artists' part. I really believe that's much more of an insight into this whole business than anything else. I think that creative people get off on giving others the same thing that got them interested in the first place. That's what it's all about--I want to inspire you and I want you to inspire me. And I want to do that the rest of my life. Because the only thing that gets me off right now is inspiration.

Playboy: How will you want to be remembered?

Travolta: I guess in all honesty I want to be remembered as a great actor, a great character actor who made social statements and gave people insights and inspiration. Because you can be a great actor and not necessarily inspire people. Lily Tomlin's ability to create characters is immense. I'm hoping that's the effect I'll have when people look in retrospect on my career.

Playboy: Assuming you're on your way, isn't it a little galling to have to return to a fluffy TV series?

Travolta: Well, this year the scripts are better, which is fun for me, and I can slip into Vinnie because I know him so well after three years. It's very easy for me to slip into his balance, so I can have more fun with him now than I ever have.

I love the guys on the show; I'm very close with them. There's satisfaction in being with the people you were with when your success started. It's like a certain safety that you almost identify with.

I love doing my filmwork and really exploring my artistry, so it's hard for me to go back in the sense that I feel that cycle is over as an artist. But there's something very settling about coming back to where I started. It's home, a point of reference, and it's the same for them. It's very good knowing that we're all basically the same.

Playboy: But in reality, you're not the same. Because of your film career, your fame clearly exceeds everyone else's on that show. Is there any degree of jealousy this season?

Travolta: No, because we've explored that already. We talk about it. And, besides that, last year they all came to me and said, "Go with it--take the ball, John." I know that sounds corny and quite dramatic, but they said, "If you make it, we have a chance." That was before Saturday Night Fever opened. They said, "If you can do it, that breaks the ice for all of us in television."

Playboy: Why do you think you were the first television teen idol to be able to erase that stigma and succeed in films?

Travolta: It could be a combination of things: timing, vehicle, ability. All those things hit at the same time. Saturday Night Fever was just the perfect vehicle, it was what the public wanted, and I had the opportunity to express my abilities to the utmost.

So what I'm saying is that they're only grateful now because they're really a bright group. They're just perceptive and intelligent enough to know not to be jealous.

Playboy: Frankly, we were surprised to see you on the show this year. Did you make any attempt to get out of your Kotter contract?

Travolta: Honestly, I knew I couldn't get out of it--it's the hardest kind of contract to get out of. It's almost impossible. So what I did was, I went to them with the desire to make it work out and asked for a compromise. Which they gave me.

Playboy: What are the details of the compromise?

Travolta: In exchange for staying on the show, I have to do only eight episodes in '78 and four episodes in '79, plus a special before 1980 or '81.

Playboy: When you're through with Kotter, do you think you'll ever work on television again?

Travolta: Yeah, because I feel that television reaches an audience--you can get to people like you can nowhere else. And I think that's so important it shouldn't be forgotten. I don't think I'd jump into a five- or seven-year series like I have now, but I do think it's possible to do specials or a miniseries. You never know--in a few years, a miniseries might be attractive to me. Maybe there's something that I'll want to get to the people that I can't get through film, because it will take 12 hours. Well, that's when a miniseries would be the right vehicle.

Playboy: There's a school of thought that says that by staying off television, an actor can create a mystique that enhances his power at the box office.

Travolta: I think there's a lot of truth to that. Yet you cannot totally withdraw, either. You have to time it properly. There are times when it's appropriate to be on television or do an interview. When someone real hot is on television, I mean, everyone watches. That doesn't hurt the mystique. But if you're on three times a week, people are going to get bored with your essence.

Playboy: And what, finally, is the essence of John Travolta?

Travolta: Well, I had an interesting revelation during the filming of Moment by Moment. I wasn't working for a short period of time and I wasn't happy. I was depressed. And I thought, What is it? Can't I be myself when I'm not working? And the truth is, I am only myself when I'm working. I started acting when I was nine, I've been a professional since I was 16, and the point I'm trying to make is: I feel my best when I'm creating, because that's me. That's my identity. When a lot of people try to confront their lives, they try to separate themselves from their work. They say, "I am going to work things out without that dependency." Well, that's bullshit. Because what you do is what makes you alive. That's what makes you great.

"When I was eight, I was a total greaser. I wore short, black, tight pants and pointed black shoes. Do you know what kind of effect that made when I walked into a Catholic school?"

"I knew I couldn't get out of the 'Kotter' contract. It's almost impossible. So I asked for a compromise."

"There are enough people I already know that I'm attracted to. I don't pick up strangers."