20 Questions: Al McGuire

Al McGuire finished his 20 years of college-basketball coaching by leading the Marquette Warriors to the N.C.A.A. championship in 1977. Now, at 54, he's the busiest one-man media conglomerate in sports. In addition to his uniquely colorful courtside philosophizing on NBC's televised college games, he hosts the weekly "Al McGuire OnSports" magazine series on that network, handles a daily syndicated radio show and even moonlights as a sports reporter for "Entertainment Tonight."

Bill Zehme caught up with McGuire in Chicago and followed him through a day of segment taping for "OnSports." Zehme reports: "The coach doesn't waste any time in letting you know who's in charge. He decided to take the wheel of my Toyota and drive to a taping site while I asked the questions. He proceeded to lock the transmission into third gear on the expressway as his mouth raced along in overdrive. Later, he confided to me that he believes that all successful people have holes in their underwear. If that's the case, his must be in tatters by now."

1.

[Q] Playboy: You once claimed that extremely intelligent people don't make exceptional athletes. Is education at odds with physical prowess?

[A] Mc Guire: No. Athletes are smarter than the eggheads--but it's a different type of smartness. The more academically sound an athlete is, the more he's apt to know the pressures of a particular game situation. If you put a Rhodes scholar on the foul line with the score tied and with five seconds to go, he couldn't get the ball over his shoulder.

An athlete's intelligence is one that society does not accept, because it's not the norm. The guys with street intelligence have gone through high-pressure experiences many times. For them, it's a flow.

2.

[Q] Playboy: Is basketball still the best way out of the ghetto?

[A] Mc Guire: No, basketball hurts the black race. It puts a veil or a cataract or mucus in front of all those hundreds of thousands of little black boys and girls thinking that their world is the hoops. But only one out of 25,000 will ever become a pro. It gets handled backward. Blacks truly have governed only poverty and basketball. And basketball has become an afterburner for a very, very small percentage of them. By being glamorized so much, it leads a lot of young black people into a dreamworld that will crush them. They end up in tapioca.

3.

[Q] Playboy: Why are blacks better basketball players?

[A] Mc Guire: Because they play. Their neighborhoods are usually one-sport oriented. Basketball is a city game. It's inexpensive. It can be played all year round. There isn't any difference in the natural ability; it's the specializing. Every time you ride by a blacktop, you'll see black guys out there playing. If the weather is right and the time is right, then you may see some white guys. But if it's a little chilly or uncomfortable, the white guys are not there. They have too many other things to do.

4.

[Q] Playboy: Is greed ruining sports?

[A] Mc Guire: No, because greed is human. Everybody wants more. That's what America is all about. Very seldom do you hear anyone say, "I have everything I want." Moses Malone breaks through the sound barrier and it doesn't take more than six months before 15 or 20 more follow. Because no matter what a Malone or Magic Johnson gets, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is worth twice that.

The dollars are there for most sports but not for basketball. In basketball, the owners are ego-oriented. They like to smoke their cigars and walk around the arena and talk about "my boys." They don't run their teams as a business. Usually, the dollars involved are family dollars or dollars from another business. The sport is the owners' mistress. It's something exciting that they run to, something that quivers. The little redheaded guy in the corner may be a multimillionaire and he may be running four shoe factories, but who knows him? Now, all of sudden, this guy has $30,000,000 and he wants someone to blow smoke rings at him. He wants someone to hug him and feed him eggplants. The guy says, "Hey, how can I get this?" The only way is to own a pro team. So he parlays a tax write-off, buys a pro team and, suddenly, he has an identity.

You know, it's very lonely to be an extremely wealthy person and have nobody pay homage to you. It's like getting off a private jet: It always lands at a side hangar and there's nobody there to greet you. What good would it be to date Jacqueline Onassis if no one saw you? That's why owners like to stand up in their private boxes through the whole game. They don't sit down, because if they do, no one can take their picture.

5.

[Q] Playboy: What's your feeling about putting college players on a payroll? Would that wipe out under-the-table recruiting abuses?

[A] Mc Guire: No, it would create bigger problems than there are now. More often than not, the college athlete would have to pay the school, because there's no money. See, everyone looks at the top 40 or 50 schools. When you hear about something going wrong in recruiting, it's always about a coach in the top 30, a coach who has everything. He is not recruiting, he's selecting. The tradition of the school is there, whether it's the University of Nebraska or Virginia or UCLA. But if you start naming the Loyolas, the Northern Michigans, the Bowling Greens--hey, they count every sweat sock and every jockstrap; they're playing in the minus pool with finances and recruiting.

Solving recruiting-abuse problems is very easy: The president of the university says, "Thou shalt not cheat. If you cheat, you will be fired." That's all.

6.

[Q] Playboy: How widespread is cheating today?

[A] Mc Guire: Two percent would be a lot. You're always going to have a percentage of people who go beyond the rules. I don't care what it is, religion or sex, it's always two percent. In the collegiate world, the cheating becomes a crutch for the coaches who are losing. They always say, "If I cheated, I'd be winning." So the public forms the opinion that 50 percent of the schools are cheating, and it's not true. You will find, in fact, that when they get down to investigate, there'll be five schools on probation. When you put the numbers into your computer, you'll find out that it's two percent. That's all it ever is.

Remember, you're dealing with a 17-and-a-half-year-old ballplayer when you're recruiting. Who the hell would put his life on the line and trust a 17-and-a-half-year-old kid?

7.

[Q] Playboy: Would we be safe in saying that not much under-the-table business went on while you were at Marquette, then?

[A] Mc Guire: Everyone would like to think that it went on, but no. My guys got degrees. I'm not saying that they were Einsteins; they were marginal students. But every ballplayer who ever touched me has moved up his station in life. And the players moved up my station. No school ever made a Rhodes scholar; they're born. You can't show me a coach who has made an all-American. God makes those.

8.

[Q] Playboy: Does God have a place in the locker room?

[A] Mc Guire: I've never had that question asked of me before. Yeah, I think He's there. If there weren't a God, those guys wouldn't be in there. Other people can't do what they can do, just in terms of their abilities, their talents and ballerina moves. At Marquette, which is a Catholic school, we always said a pregame prayer in the locker room and a priest always traveled with us. As long as my players believed in something, I didn't care. I've had a hard enough job saving myself. I can't save anybody else.

9.

[Q] Playboy: Fans will always remember you weeping on the bench as Marquette clinched the 1977 N.C.A.A. championship. That moment might have been a watershed in the new age of male sensitivity. How do you feel about men's crying?

[A] Mc Guire: Well, you'd rather cry alone. It was a thing pent up after all the years of my jerking around in sports. It was probably a million-dollar cry. I think it changed how I was perceived by a lot of people throughout the country. But I was never ashamed of my emotions. Coaches usually show emotion. Some don't. The ones who don't, end up with ulcers.

10.

[Q] Playboy: In terms of levels of emotional satisfaction, what's the difference between winning over the other team and slaughtering them?

[A] Mc Guire: Amateur coaches--those who are not of quality and who aren't going to stand the test of time--believe in burying opponents. They believe in winning a football game 40 to nothing or in winning a basketball game by 34 points. You're obviously gladiating, but you're not looking to cost someone else his job. Coaches are your brothers; you help one another. So a coach who tries to bury someone doesn't belong in the profession and won't have a long stay in it. He doesn't understand that coaching is a profession, not a hobby.

I personally would never involve myself and another coach in a vendetta. It's not worth it. All I wanted was to get a W. During time-outs, I would say, "Win, for Christ's sake! Win! What are you jerking around for?" I was not a physical coach. I worked on your mind, not your body. People who are tough in the head are champions. Losers learn by losing and winners learn by winning. I never said a word to my team after a loss. I just left them alone. I've never given an excuse and I've never accepted an excuse. It's important to win, because someone is keeping score. But as far as being realistic goes, the only important things in life to win are surgery and war.

11.

[Q] Playboy: Now that your coaching days are presumably over, you don't have as much at stake. What gets your blood up these days?

[A] Mc Guire: It gets me up to go into Bloomington or South Bend or Lexington, where each town tries to prove that it's the basketball capital of the country. They'll Windex the backboards, and the cheerleaders have had their hair in curlers all night and they press their outfits. And the bands get me up. And, to be honest with you, the cheerleaders kind of turn me on, too. But if my wife is in the audience, I don't look at them.

12.

[Q] Playboy: Who has the best cheerleaders in the N.C.A.A.?

[A] Mc Guire: As a group and as a rhythm, the UCLA Bruins have a lot of true keepers out there. They remind me of that old country song that goes, "You know I'm not that strong when you shake that thing." To me, even the worst college cheerleader is better than the best pro cheerleader. The pro cheerleaders put on a little too much rouge and seem to have too many places where you can hang your hat. But in college, they just seem to be turned on. It seems to be a legitimate, genuine concern. They don't seem to be looking for the red light on the camera.

13.

[Q] Playboy: A lot of viewers think you're full of it and don't hesitate to say so. How does Al McGuire answer to the charge?

[A] Mc Guire: Well, I am full of buffalo chips, but I know it. Which makes me much further advanced than the ones who are and don't realize it. At least, I know I'm a ham. But I enjoy it. The only thing is, when I'm with more than four people at a time, I think I should be paid.

14.

[Q] Playboy: Did tending bar at the McGuire family's tavern in Queens early in life prepare you for the kind of on-mike shirtsleeve psychoanalyzing in which you specialize now?

[A] Mc Guire: Yeah, but I didn't know it at the time. I used to think that I was going to be a bartender for the rest of my life. I was even learning how to clip out of the register, which means take some money out for yourself. I didn't realize that I was being educated, that this was equal to a scholarship to Princeton. As a nighttime bartender, you learn to judge people very, very quickly. You can feel a room and know who the shysters are and who the hookers are. You know who the phonies are and who the sincere people are. You learn not to rate people if their name is Gabor or Shalakis, or if they wear a cap, or if they slur, or if they spill a drink. You learn to know what the devil it's all about--and it's not the cloth napkins and the limos.

A bar is a clearinghouse. People open up there. You never go into a bar where people are postdating memos. They're usually exchanging and sometimes there's sadness, but there's still an exchange. There is a nice feeling at two in the morning to see a beer sign. It's somewhere you can place a bet or have an affair or play a jukebox or whatever. Of all the places I know on earth, it seems to be the most wholesome. You're not walking into anything that you have to prep yourself for. When you go in, you know what's there and what's expected of you. If you want to join in, you can. If you want to slip down to the end of the bar and cry in your beer, you can do that, too.

I never got into this before, but I hope the neighborhood saloon never leaves us. It's something like the porch on a house. But there are no more porches.

15.

[Q] Playboy: You've been married for nearly 32 years. What's your secret to making it last?

[A] Mc Guire: Being separate. I don't understand the doctor and the nurse who go to work together. I don't understand that type of love. I didn't marry to have a bodyguard. I married for a companion. My wife has her life and she enjoys it. We enjoy our time together. But when I retired a few years ago, I thought I'd do my wife a favor by hanging around the house. I didn't realize that I was on her turf and that she needed those four, five, six hours for whatever she did. So now, once that guy from Notre Dame comes on, the guy who does the interviews--Phil Donahue-- (concluded on page 214)Al McGuire(continued from page 134) I get the hell out.

So I think the trick to having a long run is not to be like glue. There should be separate vacations. I go on them. When I'm on my separate vacation, that's hers.

I have only one life, and it's nonnegotiable. It's like my brother John says: "In marriage, only one person can be happy." So he's being happy. It's the same in my marriage. I'm self-centered. I like myself. It's just my way.

16.

[Q] Playboy: We've heard that you have an interesting way of telling her of your impending journeys.

[A] Mc Guire: I say something like, "Pat, I'm going to New Zealand," and then I walk into the washroom and lock the door. She follows me to the door and asks, "Did you say that?" I say yes. Then she keeps yelling and I keep flushing the toilet.

17.

[Q] Playboy: You've never been much of a big spender. For a guy who delights in Filet-o-Fish sandwiches, making $1,000,000 a year must present a real quandary. How do you manage to spend your money?

[A] Mc Guire: I just don't. I never changed my style. I live exactly as I did when I was hustling quarters. I don't stop at McDonald's because it costs less; I stop there because I like it. It's not an act. I just feel comfortable there. I like windows that open up to the outside.

I don't know of anything I want. I like having my health and seeing my children do good, but I don't need anything. I have no interest in wheels, per se. I don't take care of them. When I'm eating a candy bar, I throw the wrapper on the floor of the car. I'm not looking for a nice car that I can't throw wrappers in.

18.

[Q] Playboy: You're fast becoming the Oscar Wilde of the Eighties, thanks to your wise and colorful aphorisms. Are there any personal favorite McGuireisms that you think Bartlett's Familiar Quotations ought to know about?

[A] Mc Guire: A lot of the things I say come from a lack of vocabulary. I reach for pictures, like, "quick as the last Mass at a summer resort." Here are a few others: "The blacks will not succeed until you see a homely black receptionist." "If someone calls you, the third thing he says is usually the reason he called." "The person who reaches for the check and doesn't get it never wanted it in the first place." "If you want to eat good chili, go to a restaurant where the waitress' ankles are dirty. The dirtier the place, the better the chili." And "If you want good Mexican food, there has to be writing on the men's-room wall."

19.

[Q] Playboy: What do you think gnaws at the heart of the loudmouthed, really obnoxious sports fan?

[A] Mc Guire: Most males who get obnoxious at sporting events have wives who beat the hell out of them at home. It's the only chance they get to be macho, like an Alex Karras or a Dick Butkus. All the guys who are marshmallows want to be Marine drill sergeants. But when it's raining out, they put on galoshes. I've never met a young person who wore galoshes whom I thought was successful. In fact, I guarantee you that anyone who wears galoshes to the office never misses a coffee break.

20.

[Q] Playboy: You pick up some pretty good change every year on the rubber-chicken circuit, speaking on your theories of motivation. What do you tell those people?

[A] Mc Guire: I'm telling people about my life, my world, my humor, my fears. I'm telling them that whatever they really want, they can have. But they must do certain things. They mustn't touch the world of excuses or ever say, "Someone else got a better break than me." It's very important for people to like themselves and to admit what their problems are. If you don't like who you are, then, shit, you must want to make everybody else miserable.

I feel that I'm 75 percent bullshit and 25 percent genius. So I try to spend 90 percent of my time on the 25 percent. Why should I spend any time on the other percentage? I can't do anything about that. So I think that everyone out there in the audience has something. God didn't miss any of us.

"Most males who get obnoxious at sporting events have wives who beat the hell out of them at home."