20 Questions: Debra Winger

the woman who inspires officers and gentlemen gives her tips on kissing, explains why some fantasies should remain secret and defends her taste in coffee-table books

After taming a mechanical bull and winning John Travolta's restless heart in "Urban Cowboy," actress Debra Winger went on to conquer Nick Nolte and Richard Gere--the latter in one of 1982's highest-grossing films, "An Officer and a Gentleman." Contributing Editor David Rensin caught up with Winger during a rest stop at her Malibu home. His report: "Debra was sick and shot full of antibiotics, but since she typically didn't plan to be in L.A. long, she decided to keep our date. I took her a dozen roses. She gave me the flu."

1.

[Q] Playboy: You've kissed John Travolta, Nick Nolte and Richard Gere onscreen--some of America's biggest heartthrobs. What are your kissing tips? What are their kissing secrets?

[A] Winger: OK, mauling is out. It's simple: Kiss the one you love. It's worlds away from a movie kiss. The first time I was kissed was at a party in junior high. The guy--who will remain nameless, because he ended up in the movie business--took my chin between his thumb and forefinger and turned me toward him slowly. I knew I was about to be kissed. It remains one of my most exciting memories. There is something very important about the anticipation in the moment before the kiss. And by the time your lips meet, you're in outer space and it feels great. I also close my eyes--unless I'm looking for something, like a sore on the lip. That's just a joke, but somehow, I'm sure I'll see it in print.

I've never asked my co-stars about their secrets. I hate even to lump them together. They are from different planets. Anyway, it's always pretty tense until you know each other, and you hope that any love or kissing scenes will be saved until the end of shooting, when you either are real close or hate each other's guts. The hardest thing--believe it or not--is if you're not particularly attracted. If you hate someone, it's easy to kiss him.

2.

[Q] Playboy: We understand your talking with Playboy, but you're known for a reluctance to speak with the press. Why?

[A] Winger: I started out in the De Niro school of interviewing. He doesn't do interviews and is successful, so why should I? There was a time in my life when I thought I expressed myself best through my work. I still don't want to be out there as Debra Winger, the celebrity. I have trouble accepting star billing. I remember thinking on Cannery Row, How can I put my name ahead of Steinbeck's? Also, I guess I just have a limited number of things to say. I'm just a regular person. I'm amazed at some people's idea of who I really am. I heard about a studio executive's wife who recently did her impression of me. This normally quiet woman stood up at a restaurant table and said, "Where's the fuckin' waitress? Where's the fuckin' cab?!" It's funny. Maybe I use that word occasionally, but it's not how I would sum myself up.

3.

[Q] Playboy: You look soft; you act tough. In postmodern America, can a woman have it both ways?

[A] Winger: I'm spitting out tobacco from my Camels. [Coughs] It's true. And thanks for complimenting me. I don't often think I look soft--especially when I'm feeling particularly hard. I think you've got to have some balls. You just do. My poor dog, Pete, found a dog the other day that was neutered. He thought, No balls? I think I'll fuck him.

So you've got to be tough--at least a little bit--if you want to protect the softness.

4.

[Q] Playboy: Your voice reminds us of someone with an affection for piano-bar lounges, good bourbon and late hours. Does it sound the same at eight A.M. as at midnight? Has it ever opened any door for you when you couldn't get by on obvious good looks and talent?

[A] Winger: There are people who make a point of calling me in the morning, because they think my voice is sexier then. It does change during the day. But when I was 11 years old and walking around with this voice, it was no picnic. It was a grim task. I'll have to live to be 115 years old to grow into this voice. It scares some people off. But it has definitely opened doors for me; I haven't had any open on my good looks. In my orthopedic T-shirt stage, when I said, "Open that door!" it got opened. It also worked against me, because people couldn't figure out how old I was.

5.

[Q] Playboy: As a teenager, you worked in a troll costume at a Southern California amusement park. You fell out of a truck and were partially paralyzed and temporarily blinded. What did your blindness teach you to see?

[A] Winger: The inside of my body. Literally. It was a rather psychedelic experience but true, nonetheless. Plus, I was stuck there looking at myself. I came away knowing that nothing is as it seems. Like in Chinatown.

6.

[Q] Playboy: There was a controversy last summer over your love scene with Richard Gere in An Officer and a Gentleman: "Did they or didn't they?" Care to cast your vote?

[A] Winger: Camera angles. Also, it was all done in one long shot, which made it seem hotter than it was. Actually, I was hardly there. I saw my grandmother flying past the window carrying a Bible. I was worried about someone I love misunderstanding what I do for a living. But it didn't stop me from doing the scene; in fact, it helped me get through. My grandparents are metaphors for my moral beliefs. I love them dearly and they are just another side of me.

7.

[Q] Playboy: What stays with you most about the bull ride in Urban Cowboy?

[A] Winger: That I'll never get on one again. I was afraid I could never have children. But I did have fun doing it, which most people don't realize was its main attraction to me. Reviewers talk about how sexy the ride was. But I just approached the scene innocently. I don't mean with an intended sense of innocence. Later, it was labeled erotic, and that taught me something. Innocent is erotic. Obvious is never sexy. I've used being sexy--lips moving, eyes--for (continued on page 244)Debra Winger(continued from page 123) humor. It's very funny. But sometimes, it can also be very sad.

8.

[Q] Playboy: You used to be a stand-up comedienne. What's your favorite Jewish-American-princess joke?

[A] Winger: My favorite clean one is, What's a Jewish-American princess' ideal home? Thirteen rooms; no kitchen, no bedroom. You want a racy one? Why do Jewish-American princesses wear gold-plated diaphragms? They like men who come into money. I'm the queen of Jewish-American-princess jokes.

9.

[Q] Playboy: Did your parents support your early decision to act, or were you supposed to marry a nice doctor or lawyer?

[A] Winger: My parents never put that on me. They'd like me to marry a nice Jewish director. No, no. They just want me to be happy. At first, they weren't entirely supportive of my career; but in their shoes, I wouldn't have been, either. It looked bleak at first. It was as if I were jumping off a nice, warm ship into the freezing-cold water. But I learned how to swim and I found the Bahamas. When I got there, they were happy for me. Now they're finding out that there are storms in the Bahamas and it's not always going to be so nice. That's my metaphor.

10.

[Q] Playboy: Your new film, Mike's Murder, written and directed by James Bridges, who also directed Urban Cowboy, has some moments of blood and gore. What are your thoughts about film violence?

[A] Winger: Mike's Murder is a psychological drama that works backward from a death and is seen entirely through my character's eyes. The death is an event that might have been violent. But by the time we get to that violent act, we discover that the true violence was the violence in my imagination when I saw the bloody room and worked backward. Sometimes, the things we imagine are far more violent than what we will ever experience in our daily lives. Most violent films go wrong because they don't make that point clear.

11.

[Q] Playboy: Does the same thing apply to sexual fantasies?

[A] Winger: Not quite. We can actually live out those fantasies--and I define the word as imagination rather than hope for some event to come true--without violence, unless you're into S/M or hurting someone. I don't find that my imagination stops me from doing anything sexually. However, the fantasy itself can be so satisfying that I will just enjoy it for what it is. A fantasy is like having a secret with myself, which I love. Sometimes, I let the secrets simmer for a few years, or months or days; sometimes, only hours. Sometimes, I try them out and am real surprised at how great they are. I am also careful to differentiate between fantasy and reality, so that I don't feel bad about my life's never living up to my imagination. Otherwise, I'd be caught in a never-ending search for Mr. Right, and it would be sad to be 45 or 50 years old and realize that while I'd lived out a lot of stuff, I still didn't have the kid, family and home I wanted.

12.

[Q] Playboy: Given the option, would you rather your boyfriend or husband not be famous?

[A] Winger: If I were to look at it that way, I would have to also think about myself being one or the other. And since I don't, and since my private life is private, I don't have any problems with it. But I don't have a thing about never dating directors or actors.

On the other hand, I have certain friends--actors who have to remain nameless--whom I won't go out with in public because of how the press would treat it. I'll talk with them on the phone or visit them at home, but in public, it becomes a thing. To the press, it becomes the only relationship in your life. That's a real precarious situation. So I'm the take-out queen. It's take-out food tonight, because I want to spend time with friends and not have it end up in print.

13.

[Q] Playboy: What kind of guy has a chance with you? Under what circumstances do you say yes?

[A] Winger: My dog, Pete, does pretty well. Sense of humor keeps flashing in my mind. I'm just addicted to laughter. My basic purpose for being on this earth is to have a good time. When I'm not having that good time, I tend to run. I don't run as much as I used to, but that doesn't mean I believe in working at a relationship. If you're working out a specific problem area, that I understand. But just working--yech, I'm out the door in a New York second.

I'd say yes under the right circumstances, of course: to a guy who is very independent, has his own life and turns me on with a perspective on life that is different from my own. I don't need someone to take care of me. Just someone with whom the sparks fly--and if they're going to, they usually do right away.

14.

[Q] Playboy: Is astrology passé in California or are most people just embarrassed to admit they're fascinated by it?

[A] Winger: Astrology has been here a long time. The fad just comes and goes. The same with cowboy boots. They've been around, but after making Urban Cowboy, I couldn't put them on. Now I've been informed that the Urban Cowboy fad is over and I can put my boots back on. I know nothing about astrology. I haven't even had my chart done, which is why I don't think I can ever be a real movie star. I am into coffee-table books, though. See these? Bulfinch's Mythology; On Death and Dying; Funny Feet--I was sent that one because I have funny feet--and, finally, Tissue Cleansing Through Bowel Management, which I think is nice for the coffee table.

15.

[Q] Playboy: If it's true that you have a scar from every film you've done, where are they and may we see them?

[A] Winger: I pride myself on them. But they're nothing serious. And probably, on the last day of shooting, if I don't yet have one, I'll scratch my arm or something. I have a fake tooth from Urban Cowboy, I have a puncture wound in my leg from Cannery Row. I also have something, uh, more interesting from that film. I had a problem with my eye on An Officer and a Gentleman. I also have mental scars from that film. They're like an open wound. I still can't talk about it. There must be more: I guess you know you've worked a lot when you can't remember all the scars. I don't know about this question. I probably won't be able to be insured after this interview.

16.

[Q] Playboy: How does it feel having made the transition from the rental generation to the purchase generation?

[A] Winger: That's funny. I'm still renting. Actually, leasing with an option to buy. I could buy, but I don't think I'll ever make that list, because it's so permanent. I'll lease with an option to buy for the rest of my life.

17.

[Q] Playboy: How would you rate An Officer and a Gentleman as a make-out movie? What's your favorite on the passion scale?

[A] Winger: There are good scoring opportunities. That's why people are going back to see it two or three times.

I'm on a different level. A good make-out movie for me is It's a Wonderful Life. It totally softens me. I feel great about everything. It's, you know, "Want to kiss? Let's kiss. It's a wonderful life."

18.

[Q] Playboy: What's a fun date?

[A] Winger: Anything I didn't do last week.

19.

[Q] Playboy: What is your sexiest quality?

[A] Winger: Vulnerability. I think that's anyone's sexiest quality. But romance is waking up with a smile on my face. I have attacks when I have to call and get his voice on the phone immediately. It's a continuous process of falling in love.

20.

[Q] Playboy: When did you stop being a child?

[A] Winger: Last year. I decided the only difference between a child and an adult is that an adult has to take the rap. The responsibility. You can do absolutely the same fucking things as before, only you can't say, "Here's so and so to cover for me." My actions and output into the universe haven't changed, only now I say, "OK, hit me. I know I deserve it."

"It's take-out food tonight, because I want to spend time with friends and not have it end up in print."