20 Questions: Don Johnson and Philip Michael Thomas

Of all the coplspy superhero duos to charge off the screen and into America's living rooms, Don Johnson and Philip Michael Thomas (a.k.a. Detectives Sonny Crockett and Ricardo Tubbs) have certainly done it with the most style. Their Eighties version of fraternity under fire has helped boost "Miami Vice's" fortunes as much as the show's heralded visual and musical panache. They are post-macho guys' guys. Our guy, Contributing Editor David Rensin, nabbed Thomas and Johnson for their first off-the-cuff interrogation. Said Rensin, "I wore vintage faded jeans, an unironed mauve cotton shirt, a thin black-satin tie, Air Jordans and a sharkskin sports coat I had picked up for five dollars at a Beverly Hills garage sale. Don and Phil looked OK, I guess."

1.

Playboy: How would you explain the success of Miami Vice to an NBC affiliates' meeting ten years from now?

Thomas: Our sense of style. We had the technology, the talent and the timing. Our show dealt with the Eighties. Our music was on tune. Even our stories, though they had been done for years, came in a new package: Versace suits and pastel colors. Our characters didn't fit the norm, either. For instance, in one episode, I stood on my head doing yoga during a stake-out. You don't usually see that.

Johnson: It's like an idea I came up with eight years ago: a rock-'n'-roll I Spy. Then, I wanted to put a rock star on the road as an undercover agent who was against drugs. He would travel the world and do concerts that would be simulcast, in reality, on FM stations the night the show aired. People thought I was crazy. I don't want to break my arm patting myself on the back, but I think it was just too grand for most to see. As a matter of fact, I told our executive producer, Michael Mann, about it, and he liked my idea of FM simulcasts. He talked to NBC and they didn't object. We were even going to air the pilot in stereo via FM stations, but it became too much of a hassle for the bureaucracy to handle.

2.

Playboy: What do you remember most about your first meeting?

Johnson: I will always remember watching this very, very handsome black man with the most incredible skin and green eyes and enormous energy and thinking, God, someone slip this guy a mickey! [Laughs]

Thomas: I was already going down in the elevator when I was asked to read with Don. They asked if we wanted time to study our lines, but we decided to go cold. We looked at each other and it was like an explosive, compulsive new affection. It just hit. Kajung! Afterward, there was no question in my mind that we were the ones who would be chosen. We tore up the motherfucker. He is a Sagittarian and I'm a Gemini. Exact opposites--fire and air. We had instant chemistry.

3.

Playboy: What changes has Miami Vice made in your life that will last forever?

Thomas: I've just climbed Mount Olympus. Steven Spielberg calls and wants to talk to me about being in his next movie. I get calls from Nancy Reagan. The queen of England wants me to go over. I've become greened, like money. I respect the position. I'm enthusiastic, as opposed to excited. Enthusiasm comes from the Greek entheos, which means "God-inspired." I don't think I'm a big shit, though, because the higher I climb on the ladder of success, the humbler I get. I know you're only as good as your last two minutes and 45 seconds. I don't run from people who want autographs. I stay and sign and take that energy back with me and am creative. I'm smart enough to know the power of all this. They say that as long as people have something to believe in, the gods will exist. And as a major star, you become a little G-O-D. I recommend fame, but with fortune. Otherwise, it's a bitch.

Johnson: Philip is better at this than I am. If you don't like your marriage, you can get divorced, but there's no antidote for what's happened to us. However, I do recommend fame highly. It's the best drug I've ever had--and with no hangover. But I'm trying to get used to the fact that I will now go through life with those charming little cheap Japanese instant cameras stuck in my face all the time. There are times when I want to take all the money I make and buy all those cameras and throw them into the East River. This thing has obviously grown faster than I have, and it seems like I'm playing catch-up much of the time. And I think I'm handling it pretty well. But I've already gone through the crazy stuff that happens to people who become successful early. I've already partied, thank you. Major partied.

4.

Playboy: Tell us about your fan mail.

Johnson: Once, I got a letter from an English teacher in Kentucky. I was very moved, because she had picked up every nuance of my Sonny Crockett character, and she described what his life must have been like. It was really eloquent. I wrote back and ended the letter, "Please don't grade this paper," And then there are those letters from women who include phone numbers and pictures and say that they've saved their money and are taking a vacation in Miami and would it be possible to spend a couple of hours with me, doing whatever I'd like.

Thomas: I get thousands of letters. They come from all over--London, Australia. Most are very intelligent. I also get beaver shots and requests from chicks in the Army for posters of me with my chest showing. Fat girls write, "I've lost 30 pounds and I'm preparing for you. You're the handsomest man I've seen on earth. During your love scenes, I'm having sex with my husband but thinking of you." I take it all with a grain of salt, because even if I were the most sexual man in the world, there's no way I could fuck all the women who want to be fucked by me. The wildest stuff, though, is pubic hairs. Actual hairs. It's phenomenal.

5.

Playboy: Miami Vice may be the only cop show that a guy can watch with his girlfriend. Do you two consciously play to women?

Johnson: On the set or off? On the set, yes. I'm aware that a large part of our audience is sex-starved females--and to hear females tell it, they're all sex-starved, anyway; glance at the cover of any female-oriented magazine. I, for one, am trying to solve the problem.

Thomas: Do I play to the chicks? All the time. I flirt a lot. And I know that by touching those nerves and doing certain things, I make chicks respond.

6

Playboy: Then you ought to be expert enough to tell us whether women ought to be interesting or pure.

Thomas: Both. I don't like uninteresting anything. I like someone to give me a run for my money. And pure? I like someone who looks good, smells good, tastes good. You wouldn't want to be involved with someone with B.O.

Johnson: [Laughs] Yes. [Laughs] Wow, that's a good one. Hold that thought. [Laughs] Women who are interesting are most definitely not pure. But I like all kinds--period. I don't even know if what I want is sex in the classic way--it's sort of a desire to melt into women and then out of them. I can be satisfied just to be near a woman and smell and touch her, to hold her hand, to watch her. But this is very hard in a world that by and large sanctions monogamy. It's murder on relationships.

7.

Playboy: What do you think about when you pull the trigger?

Johnson: There was one scene we did that caused more uproar and got more mail--pro and con--because we pulled the trigger. It was in an episode where we shot from the hip. We were up against the wall, making up scenes as we went along. Michael Mann wrote the scene and gave it to me over the phone. I was trying to rescue a little girl being held hostage by this guy. Michael told me, "This is what happens. The guy says, 'If I twitch, she's gone.' Your line is, 'Maybe you won't even twitch.' Then you blow him away." I wanted to suspend time, and the way I read the line was what made it sell. I went, "Maybe . . . you won't even . . . twitch." Boom! The cadence threw him--and the audience--off. It was devastating. But, then, the violence in our show is not cartoon violence; it's real--which I think is a deterrent and not an encouragement. When someone goes down, he bleeds and stays down. And because we use a process called step printing, in which you print the same frame twice, it appears as staccato slow motion, which heightens the reality and the violent tone. I'm immersed in character and weighing the rights and wrongs--legally and morally--of what I'm about to do when I pull the trigger. Well, morality is not a question that Crockett answers. It's what he does.

8.

Playboy: What's atop your TV-cop-show hit parade?

Johnson: M Squad, with Lee Marvin.

Thomas: The Adventures of Superman. He was able to leap tall buildings at a single bound, faster than a speeding bullet. Mighty Mouse, too. They were both undercover. [Laughs]

9.

Playboy: Who are the most unforgettable real-life undercover cops you've known?

Johnson: One is one of the DEA agents who busted John De Lorean. We became very good friends. He told me fascinating stories about working the Texas/Mexico border on a drug bust, about how the Mexican authorities were completely ruthless, corrupt animals, and I would eat that stuff up. He described the adrenaline rush before a bust and what it was like to live undercover for weeks and to party with a guy and get close to him and know the whole time that you were going to nail him to the wall. The undercover cop is also acting--only it's the big acting in the sky. If you fuck up, you don't get a bad review; you get shot.

Thomas: I've talked to some who are insane. They do some wild shit. They're like a surgeon who enjoys cutting up people because he likes the flow of blood. I've heard stories about some cats who took a house in a shoot-out and blew some guy's arm off. They went in, picked it up and laughed, saying, "Isn't this funny? The fucker's arm. Get his ass out of here!" They treat criminals like animals. They have a license not only to kill but to cut your nuts off and mutilate your face--and all because you broke the law.

10.

Playboy: As undercover cops, your characters are trained to be suspicious. In reality, do you trust people easily?

Johnson: No. I have to practice giving people the benefit of the doubt. It's my business to read people. I'm pretty good at telling when someone is feeding me a line of shit. But I've made mistakes in judgment.

Thomas: I've been called a sucker for trusting people easily, but I love people. Jesus said, "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." If I love you, I will do anything, within reason. I'm not one to put chains on, and ask questions. I love a woman who feels that way, too.

11.

Playboy: Although Crockett and Tubbs are tight friends, with all the trappings of TV cop partners' camaraderie, Johnson and Thomas had never met before Miami Vice. Is there pressure to be buddies? Describe the stages through which an off-camera friendship grows.

Johnson: We had a long conversation while doing the pilot. We were sitting in my Miami hotel suite for a couple of hours. It was twilight. We had a view of the bay, and we were talking about how beautiful the city was and about spiritual things. We both knew what was at hand and what kinds of pressure we were going to deal with. We knew that people would be jealous of our relationship--on and off screen--be threatened by it and want to tear it apart. So we agreed that the moment either one of us felt slighted--which is never going to happen--we would discuss it. From then on, we knew that we had to be not only friends but each other's protectors. And part of that protection is to allow ourselves the space we need after spending 18 hours on the set. We don't pressure each other to have dinner together or to meet each other's families. We could ask, but we wouldn't demand it.

Thomas: We also trained with each other. I told Don about my goal, EGOT, which stands for Emmy, Grammy, Oscar, Tony--I want to win or be nominated for each award in the next five years. And he told me about dreams he wanted to develop. So we made an effort to work out together, to jog together before the sun rose, to learn our lines together. We trained with policemen in undercover work. Don knows a lot more about guns than I do, so he taught me about weapons. During the making of the pilot, we practically lived together. We worked on Saturdays and Sundays--and you don't get paid for those days. And we always gave each other space, because we didn't want to force a relationship. We just wanted to be together so we could find out how we functioned. We didn't have to, but we knew this was our shot.

12.

Playboy: If the two of you could change places for just one show, what would each of you do to improve, expand, modify the other's character?

Thomas: I would play Sonny a little more insane. I would like to see him go over the edge. I say this because the real undercover cops we've met are nuts. Other than that, I'd have more chicks. [Laughs]

Johnson: I'd like to see me get more chicks, too. [Pauses] That's a dangerous question. Philip's character is a very bright, highly sophisticated, urban black man. He is knowledgeable about the art world, architecture, film, culture in general. It's probably one of the most attractive role models a black man has been able to portray in years. I'd like to see more of that. But the one thing Tubbs does not do as much as Crockett is make mistakes and deal with them in a human way. I think we need see more vulnerability in Tubbs.

13.

Playboy: What's the latest book you've read all the way through? What reading material is on your night stand?

Thomas: The last book was 2150 A.D., by Thea Alexander. I also read the Bible a lot and books on computer programming, since I do that for my music. And I study books on philosophy, religion, higher learning, law and spaceships.

Johnson: Mine would be either Interview with the Vampire or The Hamlet, by Faulkner. On my night stand is Decisions, which is appropriate for my current situation, don't you think? And I keep a copy of Shakespeare by my bed at all times, because it's the best sleeping pill I know. When I started getting sober, I read everything Jack London wrote, even his letters about his letters. Then I got really crazy and started reading the books of some of the films I'd made, such as From Here to Eternity. It was like cleaning up unfinished business. And I'm a major (concluded on page 150) Johnson and Thomas (continued from page 120) Mark Twain fan. And Faulkner. And Tennessee Williams, God rest his wicked soul.

14.

Playboy: Imagine for us, if you will, Lieutenant Castillo's private life.

Johnson: [Big laugh] We've discussed this at great length and make jokes about it all the time. We say he's into little boys or that he hangs out on school grounds and picks up teenaged girls. My favorite thing is to do a Castillo. [Does this] You walk up to a wall, face two inches away, put your hands in your pockets, don't blink, don't smile and say, very directly, "Find them." Eddie Olmos has the character down so well that he doesn't even have to talk anymore. All he has to do is look.

Thomas: People are amazed that he's so friendly off screen. At home, Castillo probably sits in the Zen position, puts on a kamikaze headband, lights candles and chants. I've never met a cop remotely like him.

15.

Playboy: You're television's newest clothes-horses, and viewers are very familiar with your choices in outerwear. Do you have any input on your wardrobe? Do you get to keep it?

Thomas: I get no input on the wardrobe, but I'm extremely happy with it. I get to keep it only if I buy it. [Laughs] You don't get anything from Miami Vice that you don't earn.

Johnson: I can keep all of the wardrobe I want. But although the audience sees it for only five or ten minutes at a time, I sometimes have to wear it for days or weeks. So by the time the show is over, the outfit is dead to me, even though the actual fashion hasn't hit the streets. In fact, I wore a variation of my Miami Vice clothing long before I did the show. I figured a T-shirt, jeans and a sports coat were right for anything short of meeting the queen.

16.

Playboy: The groundwork for Miami Vice's success was probably laid, to some extent, by the popularity of Brian De Palma's film Scarface. What's your favorite scene from that movie?

Thomas: I liked the one where Angel got his arm and leg cut off by Hector, the guy with the chain saw. That was one of the most violent scenes in memory. Also, at the end, when my man Pacino had that pile of cocaine on the desk and he was frozen from head to toe, and then he got shot. In real life, you do not die like that. After the first couple of hits, life is gone.

Johnson: My favorite moment is also the rip-off scene in the tiny South Beach hotel on Ocean Avenue, with the chain saw. Hector was Al Israel, who has been on our show. With my checkered past, I could relate to the rip-off--very well. So I thought it was done nicely. In fact, a good friend of mine, Steve Bauer, was in the scene as Manolo. We met when we were both in the TV series From Here to Eternity, which was his first gig in Hollywood. I kind of took him under my wing and said, "Hey, pal." How was I to know that he would end up marrying my ex-wife? [Laughs] I think I trained him too well.

17.

Playboy: Who is your best friend?

Johnson: Probably Patti [D'Arbanville]. I trust her implicitly. She unconditionally cares about me and I about her. We have the obvious problems that come from any kind of relationship, only ours are a little more public. But one reason we're able to maintain our relationship is that we're not married. A lot of times, in a marriage, you end up living someone else's idea of what it's supposed to be like, some storybook thing. As I said about partying, I've partied. I've also been married.

Thomas: God. I spend a lot of time in meditation on the Creator.

18.

Playboy: What do you do in your spare time?

Thomas: I'm a workaholic. I write and produce music all the time, even on the set between shots. I've spent more than $100,000 of my own money on my album, which came out last June. I took that chance because I believe in myself and because you can expect the unexpected from me.

Johnson: I take Ken dolls and the like, and after making cutouts of various items, I sculpt miniatures of memorable Miami Vice busts! [Laughs--then shows us he's not kidding]

19.

Playboy: Do you feel that the on-screen relationship between Crockett and Tubbs is a model for adult male bonding in the Eighties?

Johnson: It's something I didn't plan on having happen. I also didn't plan on everyone's picking up on it, but people did. I have gotten very bored with traditional male relationships--no touching, no holding, no genuine closeness, none of that stuff that might be misconstrued, you know. And that's the way most actors have portrayed them--out of fear. I have no fear of that, so I can allow myself to be as close, open, vulnerable, weak or gentle as possible toward my partner or friends. And I'm gratified that people have begun to pick up that it's OK for men to be close without thinking they're light in their loafers.

Thomas: It could be true. People come up to me and say, "You're guys, not cops." People have named their goldfish after us, and dogs. It's a good image.

20.

Playboy: What's the toughest job in the United States?

Thomas: Being poor.

Johnson: Nancy Reagan's. [Laughs] I'll probably get in trouble, but I think it must be very tiring to keep saying, "Dutch, wake up. Wake up. The Joint Chiefs are waiting for an answer."

"People say, 'You're guys, not cops.' People have named their goldfish after us. It's a good image."