20 Questions Morton Downey, Jr.

Morton Downey, Jr., debuted his shout-and-shock style of TV talk show on Black Monday, October 19, 1987, on super-station WWOR in Secaucus, New Jersey. He has since roared to nationally syndicated success, portraying the leading vulgarian of our time. The son of famous parents--Morton Downey, Sr., was revered as the "Irish minstrel boy" and Barbara Bennett was one of the Bennett sisters--Junior's confrontational tactics seem designed to render him infamous. Writer-publisher Al Goldstein spoke with Downey the day after he appeared on the Phil Donahue show and publicly swore off his trademark cigarettes. Five minutes into his talk with Goldstein, Downey took up the habit again, continuing to puff furiously throughout the interview.

1.

[Q] Playboy: On your show, you have the advantage and you can practice bullyboy tactics, because you're controlling the microphone and the camera angles. Doesn't that serve to intensify your arrogance?

[A] Downey: That's possible. I remember when I was a kid and I tried to speak out in my family, it was always "Keep still! Quiet!" When my mother was giving parties with her sisters, Joan and Constance, it was "Get the kids up to the bedroom; don't let them down in the party; we don't want anybody to know we have kids that old." So I was held under a bushel long enough. When I spit out my silver spoon, I decided I would speak out on the issues--on civil rights, for example--long before it was fashionable. I felt that I should speak out--not to change people's minds as much as to give them another thought to put in them. Maybe the seed would grow.

2.

[Q] Playboy: One of your favorite taunts is "Pablum puker." Definition, please.

[A] Downey: When we were kids, we were fed Pablum, all right? That's baby food. It's shoved into us and we spit it back out again. Well, The New York Times is the leader of the Pablum pukers. It serves up all this Pablum to the so-called intellectuals, who read it, believe it's the truth and puke it back out as fact.

3.

[Q] Playboy: Given your questionable academic credentials--a Ph.D. from a diploma mill--what makes you think you are qualified to deal with the weighty issues discussed on your show?

[A] Downey: I attended Valley Christian University for three years. I attended 12 weeks of classes, ten hours a day, four times each year. I had to write a dissertation, which was published at one point by the Department of Health, Education and Welfare--when it was still called that. It was titled "The Economics of Abortion in a Capitalist Society." My diploma may be dubious, but I'm pleased with it. It says, Issued Under The Authority Of The State Of California.

4.

[Q] Playboy: Your producers call your audience "The Beast." Isn't there a flavor of yahooism, of mob rule, to your show?

[A] Downey: People in my audience want someone to listen to them. Now they've got someone who will listen, and they can have a voice. When you do that, you no longer have a mob, you have a responsive constituency.

5.

[Q] Playboy: Would you defend someone whom your audience hated even at the risk of offending your viewers?

[A] Downey: A perfect example is my brother, Tony [who talked about his homosexuality on the show and who is dying of AIDS]. When he told me he wanted to do that show, I thought, OK, I've got a totally different persona in the eyes of many people. If I do this show, there are going to be some people who are going to slight me for it. That's tough shit. I'm going to do whatever the fuck I think is right. I'm not going to change my positions or my opinions because they are favorable or unfavorable with the majority or with the minority. I've got to be true to myself or I can't be true to the people out there.

6.

[Q] Playboy: Morton Downey on sex: "The purpose of sex is procreation, maybe a little recreation." But that comment came within the context of a discussion on homosexuality. Is being gay a perversion?

[A] Downey: The anus is an exit, not an entrance. Some guy falls in love with another guy, they want to pet; I can understand that. It certainly wouldn't be attractive to me, though I've tried to think: Is there any man I've ever known I would feel comfortable kissing on the lips? And I haven't come up with one, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible.

7.

[Q] Playboy: What is the inside of the Mira Loma, California, jail like, where you once spent 60 days for bad-check charges?

[A] Downey: Mira Loma--let me tell you. Of course, I don't know what it is like today, 30 years later. First, they put you in the L.A. County lockup. You're in with everything in the world you could expect to be in with: murderers, car thieves, parking-ticket violators. Then they move you into a medium-security prison, which is merely a dormitory. And then Mira Loma, out in the desert, surrounded by fences about 14 feet high, with barbed-wire rolls. Every 20 feet, a guard post, with armed guards in the tower, and lights. While I was there, two guys were injured, one guy killed--with filed-down steel forks out of the mess hall. So the first thing I did, of course, was team up with the toughest guy. He got me on the boxing team. They never bothered the boxers. I got my brains beat out every Friday, but it was worth it.

8.

[Q] Playboy: If you were locked in a room with Phil Donahue and Oprah Winfrey, who would walk out alive?

[A] Downey: Oh, I'd walk out alive, I guarantee it. Phil Donahue is the master of the talk-show interview. He is the contemplative antagonist, right? He's the guy who rolls his eyes when you answer a question, who gives his own editorial with facial expressions. Donahue is a political wimp. He tries to intellectualize every issue. Well, there's no room for intellectualizing every issue. Oprah Winfrey is a magnificent lady. She makes every woman feel good. She makes every woman realize you don't have to be white, blonde-headed, with a 34-inch bust to be a success.

9.

[Q] Playboy: Success spawns imitations. G. Gordon Liddy is preparing his own talk show. Can you hold your hand over an open flame without wincing?

[A] Downey: No, I (concluded on page 156) Morton Downey, Jr. (continued from page 123) can't, but I bet I can double my fist up and put it through his face.

10.

[Q] Playboy: You're a psychiatrist's wet dream. Does your shrink know the real Morton Downey?

[A] Downey: I don't go to shrinks, because I'don't trust them. They create diseases, illnesses and imaginary problems to keep themselves employed. What you see on The Morton Downey, Jr., Show is a one-hour truncation of Morton Downey, Jr.'s, 24-hour day. All the emotions--whether they are happiness, sadness, joy, anger--are in that one hour.

11.

[Q] Playboy: Explain the incident in Sacramento when you were booted off your radio show for telling a racial joke.

[A] Downey: What was an alleged racial joke. The real reason I got thrown off the air was that I'd made a deal with the station that I would get a $25,000 bonus if I doubled its ratings. I doubled them in the first month. They didn't want to live up to their side of the bargain. I was gone the next day. Let's face it: Do you feel you're being a racist because you use the word Chinaman? I looked through the first, second, third, fourth and fifth editions of Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary--nothing there. But in the seventh edition, it says, "Chinaman: Chinese--often taken to be offensive." Incidentally, I apologized to the guy for saying that on the air, and he wouldn't accept the apology. So the hell with him--he's the racist!

12

[Q] Playboy: How much reading do you do for your shows?

[A] Downey: I have a good staff. It does a lot of research. I do read probably 17 newspapers and magazines a day and three books a week.

13.

[Q] Playboy: How do you react to physical violence? Are you afraid of someone's trying to kill you?

[A] Downey: Not at all. I've had only one bad incident on the street: Two guys walked up, and one said to me, "Hey, Mort, right on!" And the other guy said, "Kiss my ass, you cocksucking faggot"--because of my brother, who is gay, right? I said, "Where do I start kissing? You're all ass!" I can't run away from that. I've got to face it.

14.

[Q] Playboy: In your earlier years, did you have any flings with homosexuality yourself?

[A] Downey: The closest I came to that was when I was 11 years old and the family doctor put his mouth on my penis. I knew that was wrong, but I didn't dare tell my grandmother, because she was so old. But every time she'd ask me to go back to that doctor, I refused. She thought it was because I was afraid of shots.

15.

[Q] Playboy: Military school is sometimes seen as a sort of breeding ground for homosexuality. Is that how it struck you?

[A] Downey: Not really. I knew some of that activity went on. The things I learned to do in military school were how to smoke and masturbate. [Laughs] We had a thing called a circle jerk.

16.

[Q] Playboy: Did you ever touch another guy's dick?

[A] Downey: That's a great question. No, never. Not even interested. Never touched a dick, but I know a lot of dicks.

17.

[Q] Playboy: Are you happy with the size of your dick?

[A] Downey: I'd like to have a bigger dick. You always think it makes you powerful, more masterful, more in control, that you're able to please women more.

18.

[Q] Playboy: You've talked about your mother's drinking problem. Children of alcoholics have been recognized as having a specific set of psychological traits: insecurity, addictive personality, need for approval. Do you think you are operating under that dynamic?

[A] Downey: No, absolutely not. I have all the approval I want from my wife. But if Mort Downey's demons were laid to rest, he wouldn't be Mort Downey anymore. And then he wouldn't be that interesting.

19.

[Q] Playboy: How much of your show is spontaneous?

[A] Downey: The first week I did the show, everything was spontaneous. I had no reference points, I had no knowledge of what did and didn't work. I'm not a host, I'm an advocate. After being on TV for a year, naturally, there are some things that I did earlier that have been stored in my memory bank. When something seems to lag, I go back to those and use them again. So, whereas my show used to be 100 percent spontaneous, it's probably only 90 percent spontaneous now; and in ten years, it will be only 80 percent.

20.

[Q] Playboy: Doesn't television attract the most colorful weirdos, not substance?

[A] Downey: Maybe, but you also get communicators: those who succeed, communicate. It's wonderful that Bill Buckley is as articulate as he is, but I guarantee you that Bill Buckley does not communicate with more than five percent of the American people. I do not have the command of some of his language. And if I'cannot understand him, what the hell message is he communicating?

tv's rowdiest talk-show host takes on today's weighty issues: gay rights, racism and tv ratings