20 Questions: Gene Simmons

What do I have that other guys want? Women. Lots of them." Gene Simmons, for 15 years, with and without the make-up, has been the snake-tongued focal point of Kiss, one of the hardiest heavy-metal machines to ever hit the hi-fi. He's also an actor, a personal manager and a record-company mogul. He holds a college degree in education and speaks four languages. Contributing Editor David Rensin talked with Simmons on the roof of his New York City hotel, as the renaissance rocker acquired some color before an extended Kiss tour of Europe. Afterward, over lunch, according to Rensin, "Simmons told me that the strangest thing he'd seen when a woman dropped her drawers was his Kiss face, in full make-up, tattooed on a shaved area of skin 'quite close to the gateway to hell.' Then he said he'd be in town for a few more days and to call if I got bored."

1.

[Q] Playboy: You say you've been with 2500 women. After the first thousand or so, what do you notice about them that the rest of us don't?

[A] Simmons: Women are like cats. After love-making, a woman will wind up cleaning herself. Guys are slobs. Afterward, we just want to find an unused portion of the top sheet. But women's cleaning themselves is like a show. I've wound up asking the girls not to go into the bathroom to do that but to do it in front of me. Usually, there's a full-length mirror, and I want to see what they're doing. From the male point of view, it's like studying a strange life form.

2.

[Q] Playboy: Your intimate-photo collection is legendary. What equipment do you use? How have you refined your approach to your models since the beginning?

[A] Simmons: SX70 was the weapon, and it was over in a flash. [Pauses] In the beginning, I used to say, "I have to remember this night, and I'd like to take a photo of you." And then their first question was, "Well, what kind of photo?" But as soon as that question gets asked, it opens up all the possibilities, and the ladies of the night wind up doing many more interesting and creative things than I could ever hope for. One of them hung onto a flagpole, nude, in Davenport, Iowa. She's in the book. Then there were these two girls who were in identical school uniforms. Before the night was through, they became good friends, I became good friends with them and the fruit bowl became good friends with everybody. And the uniforms were left someplace out in the hallway.

I've never had to refine my approach very much. In fact, I often wind up saying nothing very much. The ladies hear about the collection either through the grapevine or through rock magazines. They bring up the subject. "OK, I'm ready." They think it's a ritual of some sort.

3.

[Q] Playboy: Who isn't in the photo collection who you wished was?

[A] Simmons: [Pauses] I really and truly had a nun once. Really. Just like in all the fantasies. I don't know if she had taken her vows, but she had an outfit with a skirt that was a little higher--looked like a nurse or something. She was young, maybe 28. I was downstairs in the hotel bar. I never drink. It's just a place to talk to people. And she was outside. She had gone there to preach to me. She kept saying, "Devil this and Devil that." But as our conversation progressed, we both found it very stimulating. I don't mean sexually. We were arguing ethics, theology. I took theology in college. Got a B-plus. [Smiles] Anyway, I never really tried to turn her head. The bar was starting to close; it was two in the morning. I said, "Miss, I'm going to go now. It's been very nice talking to you." But she said it was so sad, that my soul was so pure and how could I be the person I seemed to be? I told her I didn't believe sex was a dirty deed at all, that it was a wonderful thing, and certainly, you should do it to people you like being with and are attracted to, whether you know them or not. I said that if one took the religious point of view, it's a beautiful thing that God has done. She said people shouldn't do it if they aren't married. I said, "That's not so, because in the Old Testament, marriage really wasn't around. It was, 'He begat this one and he begat that one.' Who was getting married?"

I tried to excuse myself again, but she wanted to talk some more. I said, "I'm going up to my room." She said, "I'm going up there. We're going to discuss this and you're going to see the error of your ways." So we wound up in the room, and I turned on the television. And, of course, they've got hog prices on at three o'clock in the morning, because it's a farmer town. And then the television went blank and there was nothing to do. I said, "Look, I'm going to sleep." She was sitting on the bed. And we started staring at each other. Before we knew it, we started kissing, and then it was all over. And then, she was crying. So I said, "I'll let you go." But she said, "No, no, no." I don't know what happened to her. It was terribly exciting, obviously. And then, the next morning, she left. No picture of that one.

4.

[Q] Playboy: Sort of The Last Temptation of Gene Simmons. Choose: money, sex or power.

[A] Simmons: Money. Because with money, you can get sex and power. With sex, you sometimes can get money but not always power. And with power, you can be a poor son of a bitch and not get any sex at all. You can be powerful like Gandhi. But I can't imagine somebody sleeping with Gandhi. Money is very sexy. It's better than sex. Sooner or later, you have to pay for sex with money, anyway.

5.

[Q] Playboy: How long is the tongue, Gene? When did you discover that yours was longer than most boys'?

[A] Simmons: It's long enough to make your girlfriend leave you and come with me. [Smiles] I've never measured, actually. But I'd say it's five inches. And it spins. I'm not kidding. Look. [Demonstrates] Everybody thinks that there's been an operation. I heard one story that I had it clipped so it would stick out farther. Well, it's not true. I'm also always asked if I do tongue exercises. That is partly true. The more you use it, the better it is. But the whole truth is that when I was born, the doctor pulled me out by the wrong appendage, and that's what got it started.

6.

[Q] Playboy: Do you remember your first groupie?

[A] Simmons: Yes. It happened at Electric Lady Studios in the Village. There were three bands involved--five guys all at the same time. [Pauses] I swear to you, this is not made up for the sake of a colorful interview. Anyway, she was like a queen bee. She was 6' 1" and walking down the street in the days when clogs were four inches high. I'm 6'2". She was huge. Quite attractive but big. So I pull her down to Electric Lady Studios. And before she knows it, we wind up in a sound booth. Just as I get started, there's a knock on the door and my then producer comes in and says, "What's this? I'm going to tell the guys." In a moment, four other guys run into the room, and she is totally--let's just say that both of her hands, her mouth, every available part of her was being used at once, and she was very happy to oblige. She pumped four out of five. Afterward, when I would talk about it, no one believed me. That's when I got the idea that if one goes hunting and never takes a photo of the trophy, what good is the trophy?

7.

[Q] Playboy: What do groupies really want? Do they get it?

[A] Simmons: To have their pussies licked out by Gene Simmons. [Laughs] Seriously, fucking rock stars is more interesting than fucking dentists. I've been developing a script about two girls from Davenport who experience a rite of passage. A group comes into town, they start following the group and their lives change. Despite all the lust, the teased hair, the torn fish-net stockings, being an easy lay--all the negatives that people talk about--these are real, live human beings who are bored to death with their lives. The way I've heard it described by the girls who have shared my bed and floor and bathroom is that, for them, it's not cheap sex. It's something grand and glorious. When they go back home, they don't hide it. They take pictures. In fact, they take a lot of stuff from my hotel room. I find sneakers missing or socks. I know I'm underlining my own name a little bit too much here, but from their point of view, they have escaped, even if it's only for one day. To some, escape means going to Paris and becoming a hermit and an artist, and to others, it means fucking Gene Simmons when he comes into town.

8.

[Q] Playboy: What's your most attractive feature?

[A] Simmons: I shoot straight. If I find a woman attractive, I'll go up to her and I'll say so. I'd rather not pretend. I'd rather come right out and say, "I'd like to figure out a way for us to make passionate love," or whatever the line of the day is. Skip dinner, skip the movies, I want you and I want you now. And I always risk the quick answer "Get lost, buddy." But usually, the response is "Oh, thank you very much." And that opens up the conversation. Eventually, we may even have the dinner and the movie, but then she's usually punished for being a very bad girl. I have to punish her.

9.

[Q] Playboy: Have you had an AIDS test? Has the dread disease cut into your lifestyle?

[A] Simmons: Yes. We have to have one, because when you go out on tours now, insurance companies insist on it. As for my lifestyle, when it rains, you have to make sure you wear a raincoat.

10.

[Q] Playboy: What is love and how do you know when you've fallen into it?

[A] Simmons: That's a tough one. It's a word that's abused. What we call love between lovers is crap, nonsense. If your lover is with somebody else, that's it. She or he either castrates or kills the other one. I don't consider that love. Very few people have figured out that the emotional love is really what it's all about. It's not where you put your finger, or any other part of yourself. Unfortunately, women, especially, define it in those very terms. A man can love and be willing to give his life for his kids or his wife or his girlfriend and still have 100 mistresses on the side. And, for him, the two never meet and are never misunderstood. Guys are very clear about that, what their emotional self tells them to do and what their dick tells them to do. Unfortunately, women equate emotion with a guy's dick. Men separate the emotion from the protruding staff of righteousness.

I've fallen in love, by my definition. But every time I have that tingling sensation, which we're told by doctors is the first sign of a heart attack--I guess it is a heart attack of a different nature--I'm aware that my freedom is at stake. And then I fight like hell to keep control. It's not very romantic, but it's true. The most important thing in life is freedom. That word is worth dying for. The idea that relationships are based on the premise that somebody can ask you where you've been and who you've been with is hell. That ain't love. Otherwise, there's no difference between you and your dog. People have made a hell out of love. There's no equity in love. You takes a girl and you takes your chances. And who says it's supposed to be forever? If the only thing you get out of life is one day of happiness with somebody you're concerned about or you care about, so what? That's one day of pleasure and happiness that you didn't have before.

11.

[Q] Playboy: What are some of the original names for Kiss that never made it?

[A] Simmons: Two: Crimson Harpoon and Fuck. The idea was to get a rise out of people, ha-ha-ha. The main idea behind Kiss was to shock. So I thought it would be brilliant if two kids were talking and one said, "Hey, man, where you going? Who's in town?" "Fuck." "Yeah, let's go see Fuck." It was the ultimate outrage, the ultimate way to completely separate yourself from church, state and Mom and Dad. But, obviously, it had a down side. Here's where the Jewish part of me kicks in: It had some limited business potential. You couldn't say the name on radio, and so on. So it was actually Paul Stanley, my partner, who was kidding around and was saying, "Hey, how about Kiss?" He was laughing about it. And everybody got quiet. We just sort of instantly knew.

12.

[Q] Playboy: How important is being Jewish to you?

[A] Simmons: Very important, though I don't think that the practice of the religion is important. In Israel, religion takes a back seat to survival. There's a real difference between Israelis and American Jews. The latter strike me as being weak and spineless; Israelis, because they have no choice, come off much closer to Puerto Ricans and the Mafia than to anybody else. You have to have that backbone or you're dead, it's over. Being Jewish really gives you a sense of identity more than anything else. To be Jewish is to have a sense that your mind is your strongest feature. And therein lies real power. It's books and learning. Jews have always been referred to as the people of the books, certainly not the people of basketball or the people of boxing.

13.

[Q] Playboy: Do women belong in hard rock?

[A] Simmons: Women haven't proved it. We're talking about music as in the word ugh. There's something about rock that implies hairy, stinking manhood. There have been a few all-women hard-rock bands: Fanny, Bertha, the Runaways. Wendy O. Williams, whom I produced, is about the closest anybody's come. She's 24 hours a day, but where's the female band? A Joan Jett or a Lita Ford--regardless of the fact that she plays guitar and tries to break up her voice like guys do--still has to play with guys. Women have to figure out for themselves what part of them is hairy and stinks. That will happen only when there are loads and loads of women playing together in bands. That doesn't mean they have to go up against guys. But women have to play with women. [Smiles] And that's my favorite tag line of all.

14.

[Q] Playboy: A lot of surprising things get tossed on stage when you're playing. What's the most memorable item that has landed at your feet?

[A] Simmons: A baby. There was a girl in the front row--well, she didn't toss it--who climbed up a little bit onto the barricades, put this baby in front of my microphone stand and was screaming at me. I thought she just wanted me to play at the kid. And she kept screaming, "It's yours, it's yours." That's memorable.

15.

[Q] Playboy: You manage Liza Minnelli. That seems like an odd pairing. Explain the attraction.

[A] Simmons: There's nothing odd about my wanting to work with one of the two or three living divas in the world. Liza asked me to produce her, and I told her it would take years if we were really going to do it, but if she wanted me to, I was going to arrange for her to have a modern musical career. It's very difficult to get people to accept Liza, even though here's a person who's won Academy Awards, Emmys, Tonys, you name it. So I aim to change all that, and to that extent, I've signed her to Walter Yetnikoff's Epic Records, globally. And she's got about the best deal in the business. My job is to show people she's not just Ethel Merman, that she can rock along with the best of them but in her way. All of that "Just go play Las Vegas" stuff was proved wrong when Cher did it all by herself. And not only can Liza do it but she can do it great. This is not a foray into the rock world of, say, Led Zeppelin. But Liza will have competitive, modern, hip records.

16.

[Q] Playboy: Besides playing in Kiss, acting and managing Liza, you've just started your own record label, Simmons Records. What are three occupational hazards you'd warn young rockers to avoid before they sign with you?

[A] Simmons: First, trust your gut, no matter what anybody says, no matter what Gene Simmons says. If you believe in your project, you just have to go with it, because that's all you've got, your belief. A former manager once said to me, "This group you found, Van Halen, nah, no good, they'll never make it." And these boys were signed to me exclusively in 1977. I took them into the studio, produced their demo. But I listened. I figured he knew something. I gave Van Halen back their contract. Second, lawyers and legal stuff. Get hip, get wise. When in France, learn French. When in the music business, learn legalese. Read your contracts. It will be profitable. Third, be healthy, be happy, but fuck every girl you can get your hands on.

17.

[Q] Playboy: Make-up and men. What's for show, what's for maintenance? How do you keep a good complexion? Hair tips? Complexion tips? Is it more fun doing it with or without the make-up?

[A] Simmons: Unfortunately, the truth about hair is if it's going to go, it's going to go, and that's life. And the only thing you can say about your face is soap and warm water, that's it. And all the rest of it--creams and everything else--is really silly. [Pauses] However, I do believe in placebos. If you believe that putting cream on your butt is what's going to make you more appealing to somebody, then that's fine. Which is why I think religion--here's a nice segue--is also a harmless placebo, as long as there aren't devils like [Jimmy] Swaggart and everybody else stealing your money.

Doing it with or without the make-up depends on your partner. Because, like the tango, it takes two. For me, it was like being in that TV show Beauty and the Beast. Lots of women--and I'm talking hundreds and hundreds--would call on the hotel house phone and say, "I want to come up; I'm downstairs." I'd say, "All right, we'll see." And they'd say, "Please keep the make-up on, please fuck me with the boots on." They wanted the fantasy of being raped by a beast or something. They wanted the blood smeared; they wanted it on the face. [Laughs] I obliged.

18.

[Q] Playboy: If you could, what one thing would you change about women?

[A] Simmons: I would give all women big fat asses. I want these derrières to block out the sun and the stereo. Because vive la différence, you know? I worship large butts and thick thighs. Just love them. There's nothing wrong with thin girls, but most women are really missing the boat. They're beautifully different from us. Their hips are much wider than ours, and the idea that women are trying to slim down and lose all that is totally unappealing to me. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't take advantage of a situation with a thin woman. That's different. Because, yes, girls, you're right, we are all dogs. Yet the classical concept of beauty in paintings is much more appealing--big, hefty, large, beautiful women. No ribs sticking out. Thighs touching instead of being in different Zip Codes. I want a woman to be able to stand on a mountaintop and have the wind whistle Dixie through her thighs. [Whistles] Incidentally, breasts are nice, too, but they don't have to be huge.

19.

[Q] Playboy: You briefly taught sixth grade at P.S. 75 before starting Kiss. Have you since run into any of the kids from your class?

[A] Simmons: It's interesting that you ask that. Once, somewhere in Indiana during a tour, a girl in her 20s walks up. Beautiful. We wound up swapping spit, or peeling the raisin, because the grape had already been peeled. And afterward, I explain, "Look, I've got to get to sleep. Thank you, you have to leave." And she says, "Don't you remember me? I sat in the back row." She was one of the students. I guess she did her homework. [Pauses and laughs] I gave her a B-plus for the evening.

20.

[Q] Playboy: What will be your epitaph?

[A] Simmons: What are you doing tonight?

heavy metal's premiere romeo reminisces about the girls he's known, the ones he's photographed and the nun who didn't get away