20 Questions: Elizabeth Perkins

Elizabeth Perkins is all mouth and mischief. For fun, she scares the hell out of her cats and records the terror on home videos. When David Letterman caught her wiping her nose on camera, she beamed and suppressed the urge to transfer the bounty of her sinuses onto his sleeve. "It would have been a riot," she says. She has even suggested on network interviews that the Bible may have been written by early derelicts with drool problems. Playfulness suits her. As a film actress, she is equally a caution: Her looks smolder, her sensibility froths. In "Big," as a corporate harpy with soul, she bounced on Tom Hanks's trampoline and later sweetly corrupted his virginity. Besides Hanks, she has played the girl to other overgrown boys, suck as Jeff ("Sweethearts Dance") Daniels and Judge (the upcoming "Enid Is Sleeping") Reinhold. She is gal to the galoots, which should encourage much of mankind. Currently, she appears in Barry Levinson's "Avalon" as a first-generation American Jew, even though she is Greek. She recalls, "I said to Barry, 'Why didn't you cast a Jew?' He said, 'Because you look like a Jew.' I said, 'OK.' "

Her house looks like her: bright, elegant, saucy (on display are many antique toys, including her prized set of vintage Old Maid playing cards). We visited the Perkins domicile, tucked into the leafy Los Angeles neighborhood of Hancock Park, where we discovered her amid two cats; her boyfriend, Maurice Phillips, who wrote and directed "Enid Is Sleeping"; pots of coffee; and the haze of her cigarette smoke, which envelops her always, as though she were a Forties screen goddess, which she could have been and wishes she were. "Joan Crawford," she says, scoffing a bit. "Not a very good actress. But I love watching her reach for a light. Nobody could touch her there.

1.

[Q] Playboy: Your family name is actually Pisperikos. What brings out the Greek in you?

[A] Perkins: [Smiles] Sex. When I think Greek, I think of passion and temper. I'm not quick to anger. I'm a builder. But when I finally cross over that line, um, I yell at my boyfriend. I throw and break things. I've picked up a forty-five-pound chair and hurled it across the room. If there's one thing human beings are put on this earth to do, it's to have their egos deflated. And throw chairs.

2.

[Q] Playboy: You grew up on a farm in Vermont. Can girls enjoy milking cows as much as men? Give us the udder truth.

[A] Perkins: Well, an udder is just a large breast. Our farm didn't have milk cows. But I worked on a dairy farm and milked a cow there. I found it to be extremely wonderful and therapeutic. There's this symbiosis between the milker and the milkee: Cows have to be milked. And they know that. You're not going against their will—you're helping them. So they see you coming. When the milking's over, they're very happy, because they are uncomfortable when they need to be milked. It's comical, because people in America don't know how to deal with a tit. A tit's kind of like a big thing in America. A cow teat is just a little bigger.

3

[Q] Playboy: What do your cats know about you that no one else knows?

[A] Perkins: What I'm like when I cry. My cat Ann responds quicker to my crying than anybody. Cats are people in little fur suits. Ann is sort of confident and sleek and well traveled. Nothing bothers her and she's there for people. Olive is a bit sickly, strikes out when she's mad, kind of aloof and not particularly affectionate. She doesn't do anything well. Sometimes I feel like Ann's my up days and Olive's my down days. Most impressive of all, whenever I start whistling the theme to The Andy Griffith Show, Ann'll come over. [Whistles slowly; Ann slinks over, mewing and nipping at her owner's ankles.] It only works with Mayberry. See, I get these little saliva bites. I think she was Goober in another life.

4.

[Q] Playboy: With which of Mayberry's citizenry do you most closely identify, and why?

[A] Perkins: Opie. Because it wasn't Opie's fault that he was in Mayberry. Everybody else chose to be there, but Opie's fate was predestined. And Opie always kind of had a wide-eyed vision of life and his innocence was always under siege. Aunt Bee could have left if she wanted. So could Goober. So could Andy. Only Gomer and Barney ever got out.

5.

[Q] Playboy: You were once expelled from boarding school. What were your great moments in teen insubordination?

[A] Perkins: It's not hard to get expelled from most Eastern boarding schools, especially if you're born an artist. I was a rebel. I did not attend class regularly. Teachers would ask me questions and I would say, "I'm sorry, I don't want to answer." They'd say, "Do you know the answer?" and I'd say, "Yes, but I don't feel like sharing." I would do anything for attention, because I was born an actress. I used to hop trains, smoke marijuana in the bathroom, steal English muffins from the dining hall—for which I was suspended. The Northfield Mount Hermon School was a six-thousand-dollar-a-year prep school and they suspended me for stealing English muffins! The only reason I was stealing them was that I wanted to have food in my room so I could study for an exam. Even though I was kicked out, I am now one of the distinguished alumnae. But the big clincher—and my reason for getting kicked out—was a phone call three other girls and I made to the infirmary. We were in the third day of final exams and strung out on coffee and cigarettes. We hated the nurse at the infirmary, because she was this big fat woman, with a Lina Wertmüller look on her face. And she hated all of us. You'd go in with bad period cramps and she'd say [nastily], "Go to gym anyway." So we called her at three in the morning and I said, "I took this great peyote. The colors are brilliant. I'm so high right now I can't even see straight. And I love ya! I'd love to look at your fat, smug face." So we hang up. This woman calls the president of the school at three o'clock in the morning and says, "I think you should have an all-school search. There's a kid tripping out on drugs and we've got to find her." So everybody's room is searched—which resulted in about four or five people being busted for having sex, smoking cigarettes, drinking beer. The next day, one of the girls in our foursome felt so guilty that she turned me in. She didn't turn herself in; she turned me in. And I got blamed for the whole thing. Then I sealed my fate when I was called in to face a dean who had the worst body odor of any man I've ever smelled in my life. He (continued on page 193) Elizabeth Perkins (continue from page 139) was yelling at me and I said, "Well, you know what? This office smells so bad from your body odor I can't even sit in here. I don't think you should let me stay in this school. I think you should boot me out on my ass. I think we ought to just call it a day." It wasn't until I became successful in acting that my father forgave me for that.

6.

[Q] Playboy: You've been leading lady to the great galootish guys of film: Tom Hanks, Judge Reinhold, Jeff Daniels. Are you attracted to awkwardness in men? Can goofy be sexy?

[A] Perkins: I don't know if I would call them goofy. Most of the men I've worked with are vulnerable. They're childlike, awkward, human. They are not tough guys. They're not slick like, say, Alec Baldwin. Not that Alec doesn't have vulnerability, but he projects something a little bit more macho. And I tend to be really attracted to characters who have an edge, but underneath, there's a real runny yolk.

Awkwardness is attractive to any woman. Women's biggest problem is they desperately try to find the vulnerable side of hard men.

A woman finally gets to an age where she says screw that, I'm not going to spend the rest of my life trying to dig something out of a tough guy. Either it's there or it's not. They become archaeologists. Klutziness is much more endearing. And more real.

7.

[Q] Playboy: Who's your dream leading galoot?

[A] Perkins: Oh, Albert Brooks. He's number one. I understand his neuroses—well, that has a negative connotation. He once said to me at a party, "Why is it when you fall in love, you lose your sense of humor?" I'll always remember that as The Thing Albert Said. I understood it without his having to explain it to me. Like Shakespeare, Albert has the ability to turn the corner when you don't think he's going to. And just when you think he's heading in that direction, he turns another corner until he keeps spiraling you inward. Albert has the ability in his comedy to keep taking it that one step further when you don't think anybody can possibly keep taking it that far. And yet he does, with such ease and such realism. He doesn't let situations die. He wants to explore them to the utmost. He's sexy because nothing is on the surface to him. Everything goes right to the bone. It goes right through the blood stream. He's completely intravenous. There's no beating around the bush in his style. He doesn't look like Kevin Costner, but that's why I worship him.

Runner-up: Charles Grodin. I love the fact that the world astonishes Charles. He's a complete victim all the time. Everything's going on all around him and he just astonishingly goes through the paces of everything that's being asked of him.

8.

[Q] Playboy: You drew attention by turning down the role Madonna played on Broadway in David Mamet's Speed-the-plow. What offended you about it that didn't offend Madonna?

[A] Perkins: It didn't offend me. What's funny about it is I got an enormous amount of publicity for not doing the role—only because Madonna did it. I'm not a raving fan of David Mamet, simply because he doesn't write roles for women. The role in question—that of an altruistic secretary to a sleazy Hollywood producer—was underwritten. The producer characters abused and tricked her and made fun of her desire to find truth in the movie industry and to get back to the basics in film making. It was extremely cynical. I didn't want to put myself in that position. Ironically, her character is supposedly the symbolism of purity of the art of moviemaking. The men are symbols of commercial shallowness. So for the casting to include, as the two Hollywood producers, two of America's foremost stage actors, who are dedicated to their craft, and then Madonna as the symbol of purity was for me a typical David Mamet move. Darkly, darkly cynical. So sue me.

9.

[Q] Playboy: As one so accused, explode the myth of the difficult actress, once and for all.

[A] Perkins: Oh, please. It's amazing to me that each actress I've ever heard was difficult is one of my idols. Like Debra Winger. She's called difficult. Bette Davis was called difficult. The problem is that women are labeled "difficult" for the same things that men are called "knowing what they want." I can guarantee you that if De Niro walks onto the set and takes charge of certain things, he is heralded for it. He is a man who knows what he's talking about, because he's been around for twenty years; he knows what works, and we should respect his opinion. But I think a lot of directors are threatened by a woman who has an opinion. Unfortunately, a lot of actresses push their weight around in terms of "My trailer's not big enough," and that gives everybody a bad name.

10.

[Q] Playboy: Name your favorite murderer.

[A] Perkins: Oh, God, I have a hundred. I don't want to sound like I have a favorite. But I will say the murderer Ed Gein fascinates me the most. This guy skinned people alive and wore their skins around his house. Moreover, all of his furniture was made from human bones and human skin. He had little drawers of body parts. He had human lamp shades, seat covers, piano benches. The man had completely lost touch with all reality. People might wonder how I could ever be fascinated with a human being like that. I'm fascinated with people who kill. What pushes them to that point to take somebody else's life? To be so out of touch with reality that that horror becomes your reality? I don't believe that it has anything to do with sociology or upbringing or child abuse, because there are many people who are abused who don't turn around and make lamp shades out of Other people.

11.

[Q] Playboy: Is there a murder trial you would have loved to attend?

[A] Perkins: Ted Bundy's. One, because, until the very end, he refused to admit he killed anybody. Two, because he was a law student and through much of his early trials insisted on defending himself. Three, because he described the murders in precise detail as if he were the killer—like, "If I were the killer, I would have stabbed her in the upper right forearm and left a two-inch incision"—never admitting that he killed anyone. He's also a man who, during one of his trials, jumped out of a third-story window and escaped. How a human being could commit murders like that, deny it, go so far as to describe the murders and then defend himself in court is absolutely fascinating. Where does that power come from? How do they view the world? When they are walking down the street, what do they see that we don't see? What do they feel that we don't feel?

12.

[Q] Playboy: What's the most fun you can have in a cemetery?

[A] Perkins: Well, I can't really say on tape. When I was growing up in Vermont, there were not a lot of places where you could be alone with a boy. Neck in a graveyard? It's great! There's something sexy about being there. Most people are afraid of a graveyard at night. But it's very peaceful and quiet. Nobody's going to bug you. Actually, on my honeymoon, I took my then-husband on a picnic in my favorite cemetery in Vermont. He thought it was really weird.

13.

[Q] Playboy: Where wouldn't you be caught dead?

[A] Perkins: At a New Kids on the Block concert.

14.

[Q] Playboy: List your three nevers in Hollywood.

[A] Perkins: That's a hard request. There are so many. Never become involved with an actor. [Laughs] And I have to say that I divorced one [Terry Kinney]. Never say anything about anybody that you would regret seeing in print. Never insult your agent. Never go to the 7-Eleven without lipstick—somebody will recognize you, then say, "I saw her. And she didn't look so good. She was at the 7-Eleven buying a pack of cigarettes at three in the morning. Looked bad." Then you read about it in the Hollywood papers. Never screen your movie before it's finished. Never assume that people have taste. Never spend all of your time with people in the movie industry. That will screw you up more than anything. And never let the fuckers bring you down.

15.

[Q] Playboy: Rob Lowe is a friend of yours. What advice did you give him during his girl trouble?

[A] Perkins: People always go [shocked], "Rob Lowe is a friend of yours?" You mean the video problem? I offered no advice. I don't base my friendships on moral judgments. I'm not saying that my friends are allowed to do whatever they want, but I don't think that what he did was so god-awful that he can no longer be my friend. What happened to him was unfortunate. But what he did, millions of people do; he just got caught and he's a celebrity. I'd like to know how the tape got out in the first place. It seems to me that somebody was counting on an enormous amount of money and publicity. Whoever it was should be slapped on the hand for allowing the tape to be circulated to even one news program. That is a bigger crime than what Rob did, not that what he did was a crime.

16.

[Q] Playboy: You played a private dick on the trail of indiscretion in the Alan Rudolph movie Love at Large. Have you ever participated in love espionage as a civilian?

[A] Perkins: Oh, sure. Let's face it, everybody has spied for love at one time or another. Nobody just falls into relationships. Nobody ever just lets things happen in love. There's always a certain amount of manipulation and searching and waiting. You could call it espionage. There's calling and hanging up when they answer the phone to see if they're there. There's driving by their house if you haven't heard from them. There's sending cards to see if they respond. Even flirting is manipulation. There's a certain amount of underhandedness that goes with the establishment of any love. And that's not meant in a negative connotation at all. It's just a love dance.

17.

[Q] Playboy: What would be your tips for the Under-Thirty Divorce Survival Guide?

[A] Perkins: I've been divorced about a year and a half and single for three years. It's not easy. I didn't date for the first full year of separation. And he did, within the first month. So it's just the way two people react. I spent an enormous amount of time alone. Moved up to a house in the hills and never went out or accepted a dinner invitation with anyone. Couldn't handle it.

The best thing you can do for yourself if you are going through a divorce is to always remember that you loved that person. If you deny that you ever loved the person you are divorcing, you will send yourself into a frenzy and hurt yourself more. It's almost like saying it never happened, and that's bad. You were married to that person for a reason. You loved him at a certain time. Accept that you loved him and that you probably still do. It doesn't mean that you can talk on the phone. It doesn't mean you can have dinner with him. Something dies and you go through a mourning. Except the weird thing is that he's still alive, and that's what you've got to accept. He's still alive, he's still part of your life, and you will always have that. You can't deny that it was there. That's dangerous. It's unfair to both of you.

18.

[Q] Playboy: Let's reflect on the classic scene in Big where Tom Hanks, as a transformed adolescent, feels up your breast for the first time. Off camera, who took hold of the situation, as it were?

[A] Perkins: Tom, the director, Penny Marshall, and I spent the afternoon on that one. I don't think there are too many other directors who would have handled it as wonderfully as Penny did.

The first thing we decided on was that you would not see the breast, because then people would have been looking only at the breast, not at the scene. Second, she decided to play it as a wide two-shot instead of focusing on Tom or on me—or focusing on the breast with a close-up shot of his hand in action. Tom—and I have to hand it to him—made the decision not to play it lasciviously. He sat down and said, "OK, how does my hand actually touch the breast? Does it bang it back and forth?" And we all decided that he would display almost an extreme admiration and awe for her body, versus a woweee! kind of response, which would involve exaggerated squeezing and bobbing. And he kept the light on. That's what made it work as tastefully and as poignantly as it did. And then he made the choice to kiss me, instead of feeling my buttocks or something stupid.

19.

[Q] Playboy: You've been making a movie called He Said, She Said, which deals with the disparate ways men and women view the world. So tell us: What do women see in everyday life that men don't?

[A] Perkins: Women are quick to notice smaller things, whereas men focus on the bigger picture. You don't see a lot of men who sit around and do jigsaw puzzles. Men will look at the puzzle when it's finished and paint the back and hang it. But women will be the ones who sit at the table and put it together. In the movie, scenes are told from the two points of view. And sometimes, the scenes are completely different, which is so true. Same place, same time, same clothing—totally different scenes where each of us hears completely different dialog. It's like going back and rehashing a fight with a friend: "But you said you never wanted to see me again." "No, I didn't." Men, of course, can never remember real-life conversations verbatim and women can, blow by blow. Men see the over-all picture. Women can remember ever safety pin that was on their skirt hem.

20.

[Q] Playboy: What can you do well that few people suspect you can do at all?

[A] Perkins: I can move my right pinkie toe independently—to the side, forward and back—without moving any of my other toes. It doesn't come in handy, but very few people actually know this about me. It's very hard to do. Also, I can play the piano without reading music. Pretty well, if I may add. Never had a lesson in my life. I'm afraid to have a lesson. I'm afraid I'll lose whatever talent I have.

Oh, and I can blow smoke rings out my ass. Just kidding.

hollywood's newest steam-stress explains her fascination with psycho murderers, why women look for the soft spot in hard men, and shares her stupid human tricks