20 Questions: George Foreman

On April 19, George Foreman, a terror during the early Seventies, will challenge Evander Holyfield for the heavyweight championship of the world in a bout that some ring observers believe will more closely resemble burlesque than boxing. Maybe they're right. By boxing standards, Foreman is a geezer. Big George turned 43 on January 22 and no longer has the sculpted physique he sported when he won the title with a savage two-round knockout of Joe Frazier in 1973. The cruelest of his critics claim that Foreman has ballooned up to proportions enjoyed by such eminent nonathletes as weatherman Willard Scott and actor Charles Durning. Lawrence Linderman, who interviewed Foreman at his gym in Houston, dismisses such talk. "George is heavy, but he isn't obese, and he can still hit like a mule," Linderman says. "Angela Dundee, who trained Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard, thinks Foreman won't be a pushover, and so does the betting public: Foreman is only a five-to-one underdog. The price on Buster Douglas was forty-three to one when he beat Mike Tyson in Japan, so an upset isn't all that improbable. But it is unlikely: Holyfield, a proud warrior, isn't taking Foreman lightly--which would be impossible to do, no matter how he felt about the fight."

1.

[Q] Playboy: You may be big and strong, George, but you're old--the oldest ex-champ ever to try to regain the heavyweight crown. Don't you think you're a little long in the tooth to be fighting for the title?

[A] Foreman: What I think is that you didn't say, "George, you're big and strong and you're old." You should leave the "but" out. I'm going to make everybody leave out those B-U-Ts.

2.

[Q] Playboy: Why? At forty-three, how can you be the fighter you were when you were the champ at twenty-five?

[A] Foreman: First of all, I'm forty-two, not forty-three, like everybody thinks. And I like being forty-two. As a matter of fact, I'm more suited to the age I am now than I was when I was in my twenties. I'm a better boxer, a better salesman and a better human being. I'm glad I didn't try to come back at an earlier age, like twenty-nine or dairty. Now I'm much more stable, and I can still do everything I did in my previous career. In fact, I've added things tomy repertoire. For instance, I think I'm a faster puncher than when I was younger. In order to get a knockout, you have to hit a guy with a shot he doesn't see. I've knocked out twenty-threeof the twenty-four guys I've fought since coming back, so you've gotta consider my speed much more advanced now, because they don't see the punch that I hit them with.

3.

[Q] Playboy: That may have less to do with speed than with the caliber of opponents you've faced. Boxing writers are unanimous in claiming that you've ducked bouts against good fighters and, instead, have fought what they call "tomato cans." Why are they saying that, George?

[A] Foreman: [Laughs] They're saying that because it's true. Boxing is a nice, wonderful sport, but after a while, most people who participate in it sound crazy, and I don't want that to happen to me. Going around fighting the toughest guys in the world could have left me inpitiful shape, to the point where when we'd have company at home, my kids would whisper, "Daddy, go back in your room." Some people say, "Hey, George, you haven't done anything. You haven't been bleeding and you haven't really fought anybody." Well, that's the way I like it, and shame on them. If there are guys out there who are tomato cans, I'm gonna fight 'em; if they shouldn't be fighting, take them out of the sport. Look, they called Muhammad Ali The Greatest becausehe fought everybody and never ducked anybody. Fair enough--but I don't want that reputation. Let him be the greatest and have that reputation. I became a contender by following one rule: I don't fight guys unless I'm certain I can whip them. Now you know why I'm fighting Holyfield.

4.

[Q] Playboy: We're glad you're so confident about beating him, but let's not overlook the fact that Holyfield, who's undefeated, knocked out Buster Douglas with one punch. Do you doubt that he has the power to do the same to you?

[A] Foreman: Look, any time you get two-hundred-pounders, you've got power. Believe me, you can slap a man too hard and put him in the hospital. Holyfield's a great fighter and a great champion who's earned his title. And, yes, he has the power to knock anybody out, nobody excluded. He can knock me out if I do something foolish--like running into his righthand, which is what Douglas did. Buster said, "Where's your right hand? May I have it, please?"And he got it.

5.

[Q] Playboy: According to Holyfield, he studied films of Douglas and planned on countering aDouglas right upper-cut with a straight right-hand jab. Have you been studying films of Holyfield?

[A] Foreman: I don't get involved in watching films, and I don't have to. All these guys fight pretty much the same: They shoot an arrow and if their opponent paints circles around it, they shout, "Bull's-eye!" They don't plan anything; it just happens. Holyfield hit Buster Douglas, and all of a sudden, they studied films? They're a bunch of liars. No way did it happen like that. One of my sisters told me that her girlfriend bet on the fight. My sister said, "I would never bet on luck fighters." That's what Holyfield and Douglas are--luck fighters. They throw punches and they might connect--they don't know. If it happens, they get a knockout.

6.

[Q] Playboy: You sound as if you don't care for Holyfield. Is that the case?

[A] Foreman: Oh, no, I like him. I never hear Holyfield give me any trouble; he's a good guy. You know, my sons are named George, Jr., George III, George IV and George V. I've about run out of Georges, so if we ever have another boy, we may name him Evander.

7.

[Q] Playboy: Have you made any special plans for battling Holyfield?

[A] Foreman: No, I (continued on page 162)George Foreman(continued from page 119) don't have to. What I do better than anybody else is knock people out. I land a good punch. If I hit you on the shoulder, it hurts; if I hit you on the neck, it hurts; if I hit you on the chin, it hurts. I'll be throwing punches, and if Holyheld moves his chin out of the way and I hit him on his ear, he'll go down.

8.

[Q] Playboy: As opposed to being a one-punch knockout artist, you seem to hurt your opponents until they crumple or quit. Do you think you operate a little differently from other fighters?

[A] Foreman: Sure, I do. I have a style that most people haven't paid any attention to since I've been back. I don't fight the same way I did fifteen years ago. Originally, I had the style of the art of self-defense; I wanted to be a pure boxer with a good defense who could punch. This time around, I'm a pure offensive fighter. I think of myself as a tank that's going to war, and the only way to defeat me is to get a bigger tank to stand up to me. Tank battles don't last too long. My intention is to knock Holyfield out in two rounds. Everybody's gonna spend their money, so one round is for the show, but the second round, he must go.

9.

[Q] Playboy: You seem to have undergone a personality transplant, George. When you were younger, you comported yourself like Sonny Liston; but these days, you seem to be talking like vintage Ali. How much calculation has gone into that change?

[A] Foreman: It's knowledge and experience, not calculation. At one point, fighters like Liston, who put a big scowl on their faces, would sell tickets. But then, after a while, if that doesn't sell--and it didn't-- you have to come up with another Barnum & Bailey situation. You're gonna hear, "Hurry, hurry, come on out and see." I'm not imitating Ali; it's just that people who are trying to sell a product sound alike. I'm gonna get paid in percentages, and if people don't know about the fight, they're not going to come. So I find myself literally on the corner, trying to sell this product. And people say, "Hey, he reminds me of so-and-so." And I should remind them of so-and-so. I'm an entrepreneur; I gotta make money. And sitting back with a scowl on my face won't bring in the customers.

10.

[Q] Playboy: Is all this huckstering difficult for you?

[A] Foreman: Oh, no, I like selling. I've been selling now for almost fourteen years. In 1977, I quit boxing to become an evangelist and started preaching on street corners. At first, I was horrible at it. I cut off my mustache and all my hair, and nobody noticed me. I had the bestproduct in the world, but everyone passed me by, and that hurt me. When I realized I was going to have to do some selling, I got myself a little speaker and I went, "Hey, this is George Foreman, the guy who fought Muhammad Ali! Sure, he knocked me down; sure, I lost! But George Foreman is here to bring you to Jesus!" And they stopped. I wish I'd known about all this when I fought Ali in Zaire, because that fight just didn't pull in all the money it should have. I really didn't understand the closed-circuit deal and the fact that the more people who bought tickets, the more money you could make. They guaranteed me five million dollars and I said, "I'm rich." I didn't think, Man, this is a business. I can bring in triple that money. I was kind of ignorant at twenty-six, and I don't make excuses for ignorance. I didn't surround myself with people who'd tell me, "Hey, George, loosen up, baby."

11.

[Q] Playboy: Do you still enjoy the physical part of boxing?

[A] Foreman: I like it, yes. As a matter of fact, if you look at my record, I've been fighting once every other month. Sometimes twice a month. I've been allowing promoters the least amount of time to promote my fights.

12.

[Q] Playboy: You've certainly given the promoters plenty of time to hype this fight. Because of the availability of pay-perview TV, many people think this will be the most lucrative bout in boxing history. Do you?

[A] Foreman: If Holyfield had a mouth, it definitely would be. Here you've got George Foreman trying to sell and the other fighter is walking around like, "I'm the champion of the world, look at my muscles." Holyfield is pure and traditional, and that doesn't mean a thing at the box office. I wish he would actually say something, but he lets his manager, Lou Duva, speak for him. Of course, if Holyfield sees this interview, he probably will say something, like, "Duh ... I gotta ask my manager." And, believe me, that's the way he's gonna fight, too. Let me tell you something: If you depend on people to speak for you and train you, then you can't fight me, man. I'll eat you up, because when you get in the middle of the ring, you're by yourself. And if I catch you looking back at your corner, you're gonna be looking up from the canvas. Holyfield's not only going to be facing a big, strong, tough man, he's also going to be fighting one of the best trainers around who's getting instruction from his own self. Nobody screams instructions to me from outside the ring. I don't allow that and I don't need that.

13.

[Q] Playboy: Speaking as one of the best trainers around, how much do you think you'll weighfor your bout with Holyfield?

[A] Foreman: I don't plan like that. What I do is get myself in the best possible condition.I run hard, I train hard and whatever the scale says is fine with me. I never try to get down to a certain weight. I did that once, when I first got back. For one fight, I got down to two hundred and twenty-nine pounds, and I didn't like the way I felt. I can't describe it better thanthat; I just didn't feel right at two-twenty-nine. Maybe I felt like Holyfield--normal, like a guy who's gotta come up with a plan. My thing is, just wind me up and put me in the ring. A tank doesn't need a plan. A tank gets out there, and if you're in the way, you better hide.

14.

[Q] Playboy: In preparing for this fight, are you at least putting your fondness for junk food on hold and getting down to serious nutrition?

[A] Foreman: I'm following my own special seafood diet--I eat everything I see. The greatest pleasure of my life is my food. I love to eat, and I'm not gonna let Holyfield or no other human being put me in a position where I'm gonna sacrifice my meals. I've been told I remind people of Will Rogers--I never met a fast-food chain I didn't like. In fact, I love every hamburger franchise there is. And I love fried fish and fried chicken and ice cream. At the start of my amateur boxing days, I left Houston in '65, and I said, "One day I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna have a thousand dollars and I'm gonna spend it all at this one corner hamburger store in Houston, Dairy Dream. I'm gonna go there every day and have me a hamburger--I'll have that much money." When I was heavyweight champion of the world, I was regimented and my lifewas built around sacrificing. I became a robot. I forgot about things like hamburgers and having friends and how to enjoy myself. In 1977, when I left boxing and came home, I realized, George, you've got a million bucks. Not only do you have all that money but there are more fast-foodchains in Houston than you ever imagined when you left. They were everywhere. I had thisbig fancy Rolls-Royce and I drove it to these fast-food chains a few times a day. When I ordered bags of food, the workers would all say, "Is that Foreman again?" They'd see the Rolls-Royce coming and know it was me. I had a choice and I made it--the Rolls-Royce was making me ashamed of myself. So I got me a Chevy pickup, and no matter how many times a day I pulled up, nobody would say, "Oh, here's George Foreman." Now that I'm older, I don't know why fighters pay guys to serve them chicken and chicken feed. You get to be champ of the world and all of a sudden you got to eat chicken feed? Not me. This time, I'm living a normal life and I'm not sacrificing anything.

15.

[Q] Playboy: Earlier, you mentioned Ali's penchant for righting the toughest boxers in the world. Do you think that's responsible for his condition today?

[A] Foreman: The only thing wrong with Ali is that he has Parkinson's disease, and from what I've been told, he would've gotten that if he never boxed one round. But he's still mentally sharp, and if you catch him at certain times of the day, he'll do the Ali shuffle and still be the greatest show on earth. He's like seventy percent of everybody in this country; he needs a prescription or two. His medicines have side effects that slow him down, but that's all. Otherwise, he's normal. And he's still productive--a few months ago, he traveled overseas and helped get some hostages released from Iraq. There are people in splendid condition who were unable to do that.

16.

[Q] Playboy: Do you ever have occasion to see Ali?

[A] Foreman: Yes, and we've gotten closer over the years. After I was converted into peace of mind, I tried to get him to do the same thing. It's impossible, you see, to have peace of mind without Jesus Christ, but Ali always argues with me. I still want to convert him to Christianity, but instead of preaching to him, I try to win him over in other ways, mostly by looking after him. He'll find me helping him on with his coat or putting on his cuff links, tying his shoes, things of that nature. He don't want to hear my mouth sometimes, so I have to do these other things. I really do want him to find what I found.

17.

[Q] Playboy: Was your conversion to Christianity why you left boxing in 1977?

[A] Foreman: Christianity had nothing to do with it. All that boxing represented to me was confusion, and all it offered was fame and money. In 1977, I had money, so why stay in boxing? That's the reason I left. I'd be lying if I told you I had a revelation from God that said boxing's no good. The only reason I retired is because I didn't want to be a boxer anymore. And the only reason I returned is that in 1986, after I'd built my gym in Houston and had been working with kids for a couple of years, one of my accountants sat me down and said, "George, you just can't keep this up. You can't afford it. You've put money aside for yourself, but if you don't back off the gym, you're going to be another Joe Louis." After that, I started traveling around to speak at churches in return for donations to the gym. That ended one night in Georgia, when I felt like, Here I am, the former heavyweight champion who once made five million dollars for a single fight, and I'm begging people for money. I told myself, This will never happen to me again. I know how to get money: I'm going to be the heavyweight champion of the world again. I came back home, got out my athletic equipment and started training.

18.

[Q] Playboy: In spite of what you said earlier about Ali, a lot of people think his condition is related to fighting well after he passed his peak. Do you ever worry about getting hurt in the ring? Holyfield, after all, is a much more dangerous fighter than the parade of pugs you picked on to get this title shot.

[A] Foreman: Who's Holyfield ever hurt? Really, who in the world has he ever hurt? The answer is nobody. And now he's got to fight a real contender.

19.

[Q] Playboy: If you beat Holyfield, Mike Tyson is waiting in the wings, and a Foreman--Tyson bout conceivably could be worth twenty-five million dollars to you. Will you fight him?

[A] Foreman: Tyson's dead. Tyson's over the hill; the race has passed him by. People who say Tyson just happened to come up flat against Douglas remind me of Dr. Leakey explaining how the dinosaurs looked before they became extinct. The fact is, they weren't happening anymore, and neither is Tyson. He's not even in my head; his day has come and gone. What is in my head is this: When I came out of retirement, I needed money and said I was coming back to become champion of the world. I didn't say I was only coming back to get money, because that's the way you get hurt. I said I was coming back to be champion. Now I've accomplished that. When I beat Holyfield on April nineteenth, I'll have done all that I've said and wanted to do. There are no more goals.

20.

[Q] Playboy: If there are no more goals, will there be more bouts?

[A] Foreman: I don't think so. I'm a full-time preacher and I'm no longer interested in fighting. Whoever would have been champ of the world, I would have fought him, anyway. And I would have beaten him, because it's my destiny to become champion. Nobody could have stopped me. If my goal was to make a million dollars, I would have quit last year, after I beat Gerry Cooney. Once I become heavyweight champ of the world, there's nothing left to fight for. But that doesn't mean the Holyfield fight will definitely be my last. After I win, I'll retire, but I might come back at fifty-six or so and try it again. Don't laugh--I'm serious about that.

the ring's senior statesman weighs in on getting old, beating evander holyfield and the joys of a seafood diet

"A tank doesn't need a plan. A tank gets out there, and if you're in the way, you better hide."