Girl Talk

Girls talk about sex all the time. Really. We do it when we get together over cocktails, when we hide away in the ladies' room, when we tie up the phone late at night. It's a rite of sisterhood to pass on sexual secrets. As a talk-show producer in Detroit, I've had intimate conversations with women from all walks of life--professionals, housewives, students--and, over the years, many of those women have become personal friends. So, with a promise that all the names would be changed, I gathered a group of my friends for what became one of our more revealing conversations. Here's your chance to listen in.

Around the table were:

Annette, 34, secretary, single

Dayna, 29, teacher, recently married

Cheryl, 31, marketing consultant, single

Tina, 31, interior designer, single

Sherry, 30, therapist, single

Teri, 28, travel agent, single

Lisa, 35, gallery owner, single

Trish, 38, public relations director, single

•

How often do you think about sex?

Annette: As I get older, I'm definitely aroused more often. I'll be in a meeting full of men and suddenly find myself imagining what each would be like in bed.

Sherry: I think about sex a lot more when I'm actually involved with someone. If I wake up in someone's arms, I carry that feeling all day long. The girls in my office can always tell when I'm getting it.

Trish: I've been thinking about sex a lot more since I've been involved with Greg. He makes me think about it. He calls me at work and gets me going on the phone. He tells me what he wants me to wear that night and what he's going to do to me.

Tina: I think about sex in the shower. It's very erotic when the water is pulsating against your body. And I love it when they unexpectedly join you. You think they came in to get toothpaste, and then you find out they came to get something else. I love washing every part of a man's body, watching him get turned on. There's something about a clean, hard cock.

Cheryl: You know, I'm finding that I can't hold out as long as I used to. The other day, I was playing racquetball with a new guy. We were hot and sweaty, which I find very sensual. He started to kiss me and my hand went straight into his pants. I don't know what got into me. Anyone could have been watching.

•

During the early stages of a relationship with a new partner, when do you know you're ready to sleep with him?

Tina: I guess it's instinct. It's a feeling that I can trust him. A feeling that he's planning to stay around for a while.

Sherry: I need to feel safe with him.

Teri: Yeah, safe. I'm letting this man into my body. That's something men can't relate to. I'd like to have faith in him first.

Tina: There are signs that tell you it's the right time. He's not all over you when he kisses you goodnight. He respects your boundaries. He's calling you during the week. You've become friends. Then you can move forward and become lovers.

Annette: I ask a lot of questions. Quite frankly, I'd never go to bed with a guy who didn't believe in abortion.

Trish: Oh, that's romantic.

Annette: Well, think about it: What if you get pregnant and aren't ready to have a child? It's not like I'm judging my bed partners by their political views, but I like to know what I'm getting into.

Trish: I have to know that a guy likes me a lot and that I'm not just a fuck. I have to know there's going to be some relationship. Length of time doesn't matter; what does is how you connect.

Sherry: You have to be comfortable with someone both emotionally and physically. That or so horny you can't hold out anymore.

Annette: But if the man is marriage material, you don't want it to fizzle out. So I take it slower. It's a test.

Trish: In other words, you'll fuck a guy a lot quicker if you don't like him?

Annette: Right.

Trish: [Laughs] That's so fucked up!

Cheryl: But she's right. Sometimes you know you'll never marry the guy, so you just fuck him and get it over with, because that's all it's about.

•

What's the most outrageous thing a man has ever done to you sexually?

Trish: Easy. One night, Greg and I were having sex, and all of a sudden, he pulls out. I thought, Uh-oh, something's wrong. Next thing I know, he's tying my wrists and ankles to the bedposts with silk ties. I've never gotten head like that in my life. It was incredible. I couldn't see, so everything felt intense.

Annette: I'm sorry, but that scene makes me nauseous. Once they start getting into ties and toys, it ruins things. It cheapens the relationship.

Trish: Then you don't know what you're missing. The things I've been doing with Greg used to seem dirty to me before I actually started doing them. I used to think they were disgusting and disrespectful to women. But I don't feel that way anymore. What I like best with Greg is when he turns me over and makes me beg him to enter me--makes me tell him over and over how badly I want it.

Annette: That makes you feel good?

Trish: Yes. It does.

Annette: It sounds like a power play.

Trish: Aren't you taking this a little too seriously?

Annette: Maybe--but begging?

Lisa: Well, I won't beg, but I'll negotiate. Like, just as he's getting hot and he's sure I'm about to give him a blow job or something, I'll make him promise to wash the car the next day.

Dayna: I'd love to try any of those things with Patrick, but he won't even discuss sex with me.

Tina: Why?

Dayna: It's like it's taboo--something you do but don't talk about. Sometimes after sex I ask him if anything in particular felt good. He rolls over and goes to sleep. Sometimes I think I should find someone who can have fun in bed.

Annette: I know. Men take their orgasms too seriously. Isn't sex supposed to be an adult form of play?

•

Trish, what made Greg's going down on you so "incredible"?

Trish: After he tied me up, he started kissing my toes. He kissed all the way up my leg. Next, I could feel his tongue licking the inside of my thigh. He passed over my groin--never really stopping, just teasing--and continued up to my breasts and stayed there for a while. Then he worked his way down the other side.

The best thing in the world is to look down and see only the top of his head. I can feel his tongue starting to trace a curving kind of shape right around the top--which is the most sensitive area for me, right along the clitoris--slowly, real slowly. By the time I start to get excited, he's already moved to the next curve. My body gets warm, then hot. I feel this tremor building from my knees to my thighs. My nipples get hard, my mouth gets dry.

Cheryl: Well, Harvey didn't do anything like that. I mean, the way he performed oral sex, I'd look down just to see if his dog had sneaked into the bedroom. He did it like a dog lapping up water. It was such a turnoff.

Tina: You should have known that from the way he kissed you the first time. When a man kisses you slowly--exploring, not plowing in--you know he's going to take his time going down on you.

Sherry: How about when they hum? I remember this one guy who'd make vibrations with his lips right on my clit--it sounded sort of like a motorboat. I'd come almost instantly.

Dayna: Patrick acts like he's doing me a favor when he goes down on me. He kind of flicks his tongue on my clitoris, which really annoys me. It feels like a fly, like a nuisance. I just want him to get on with it. I want his tongue in me.

Cheryl: I love deep tonguing, too, but only if the guy's rubbing his hand on my clit at the same time. I like a man who can do two things at once.

Annette: So what's the big deal with Patrick, Dayna? Why don't you just tell him you don't like the way he goes down on you?

Trish: No, don't do that. Men hate it if they feel like you're directing them. What Dayna should do is subtly move Patrick's head to where she wants it, then moan a little so he knows she's really enjoying it. Suddenly, he'll think he's discovered a new way of pleasing her. You do that once, and the next time he goes down on you, he'll go right to the spot you want him to.

•

What about going down on men?

Annette: Can I ask a stupid question? Why do they call it a blow job? I don't blow. Does anyone blow? [Laughs]

Sherry: Actually, sometimes I do, but it's not like blowing a horn. It's just faint little breaths--up and down his dick, around his balls. I want a guy to want it before I start using my tongue.

Teri: A musician I was with taught me triple-tonguing. It's a technique used by trumpeters. I lick the tip of the (continued on page 126)Girl Talk(continued from page 110) penis really fast. It's almost a trilling of the tongue, like in that potato-chips commercial. It gets the guy excited gradually, then drives him nuts.

Annette: Men like it when you swallow, but I just can't bring myself to do it.

Cheryl: Neither can I.

Trish: So what do you do?

Annette: I let it drip down the sides. They don't know the difference. They come. What else do they want?

Trish: What? That would be like a man pulling out just when you're about to have your orgasm. If I'm giving a guy pleasure, why would I want to stop when he's at his peak?

Tina: What do you do?

Trish: While I'm swallowing, I'm still licking, I'm still sucking. If you're not going to swallow, you might as well leave the room while he's coming.

Cheryl: I just continue touching. You know how sensitive that ridge gets underneath the head of the penis? I keep going over it and over it. They go wild.

Lisa: You know how you can avoid the whole situation? Finish him off with your hand but--and this is the trick--keep your head down so he'll think you're blowing him. If you do it right, he'll even think you swallowed.

•

What makes you connect or disconnect during sex?

Cheryl: I've never told anyone this before, but I love it when a guy holds my hand while he's fucking or eating me. There's a real bonding, a real intimacy. Like he's letting me know he's still there and it matters to him that it's me.

Dayna: For me, it's kissing. I want him to keep kissing me the entire time he's inside me.

Annette: I hate it when they put their hand down there to see if you're wet yet. It's like they're putting their finger up to test the direction of the wind.

Trish: But they like to know you're getting wet. It's exciting for them.

Annette: Then couldn't they be a little more subtle about it? I feel like they're taking my temperature. It would be much more sensual if they'd work their way down, kissing and fondling until they feel me squirm. When I squirm, that means I'm on my way.

Lisa: As long as they did something more than just putting it in whenever they're ready. Sometimes I wish a man had a vagina so he could know how it feels when it happens too fast. It hurts.

Sherry: I hate it when they keep fucking you without even knowing you're there. One time my head was hitting the headboard and the guy just kept on going. What did he think that sound was, a workman next door?

Tina: I know this doesn't sound very ladylike, but there are times we make love and times that he fucks me. I'll be in his kitchen, bending over to take something out of the dishwasher, and there he'll be, sliding up my skirt, yanking down my underpants, and we'll be doing it right there at the sink.

Cheryl: There's something to be said for spontaneity.

Sherry: I love it when they seduce me. Tim and I once left a party together and went back to his place. The moment we got inside the door, he told me not to take a thing off, not even a shoe. He wanted to take my clothes off--slowly, piece by piece. He kissed every part of my body for what seemed like hours. When he got to my hands, he removed my rings; when he got to my ears, he removed my earrings. He kissed his way down the front of my blouse. I could feel his breath on my nipples. Just the thought of his next move made me so wet, I thought I was going to come that very second.

•

Do you come every time you have sex?

Cheryl: No. Oh, please. Give me a break. I never come unless I do it or show them how to do it.

Teri: I wouldn't go that far. But sometimes if you have sex three or four days in a row, you're not going to come every time.

Tina: But they do. Fuck that. I'm there for the same reason they are.

Cheryl: So you come every time you have sex?

Tina: Yeah, even if I have to do it myself. Like when I'm on top and his penis is in, I'll turn certain ways and keep on going.

Dayna: Patrick doesn't seem to know that when we're done and I haven't had an orgasm, there's something he can do about it. I think he would like it if I came every time, but if I don't, I don't.

Lisa: John wouldn't stop until I did. That was his thing. It had to be one hundred percent.

Annette: It's a macho thing with most men, I think. They keep count. I'm surprised they don't have scorecards by their beds.

Sherry: [Laughs] There was this one guy--God, he was great. I was about to go home and he asked me if I'd do one thing for him before I left. I'm thinking, What else could he want? He had me lay back while he put a pillow under my butt. Then he ate me until I was screaming. All he wanted was to make me come. That kind of guy can keep score with me as long as he'd like.

•

Why do you stay with a partner who fails to get you off?

Cheryl: Because I'm fucked up. Actually, I'm much more aggressive about it now. I pick only men who are really into sex. I want them to be womanizers. They're the best lovers because they adore women--all shapes, all sizes.

Tina: A part of me wouldn't be fulfilled if the sex wasn't decent.

Trish: I agree. A friend is a friend, but a lover has to be a lover. And if I've been in bed with a guy and I see that it isn't working--that the chemistry just isn't there--then I have to leave.

Dayna: What if everything else is great?

Trish: Then he'd be a friend.

Teri: Well, if I left every man who couldn't bring me to orgasm, I wouldn't have anybody.

Lisa: What's the big deal, anyway? If I don't come, I wait until he goes to the bathroom and then I masturbate. Sometimes it's easier to take care of things yourself than explain to him how to get you off. It only takes thirty seconds, right?

[Silence]

Come on, you guys! Everyone masturbates. I thought we were being honest here.

Trish: Well, it's not really my thing, but during the first couple days of my period, it does relieve the pressure.

Sherry: Well, I don't like doing it. It's too much work. But if I have to, it'll be in the whirlpool, with the jets positioned right between my legs. I put on Luther Vandross, have a cup of coffee with a little Bailey's in it, turn the lights down and fantasize about anyone.

Cheryl: I like the tub, too. A friend of mine once bought me a vibrator and I experimented with it. I ran a hot bath, brought in a glass of wine and a trashy novel, and when the guy in the book started thrusting with his big, hot pulsating dick, I thrust with my big, hot pulsating vibrator. [Laughs]

Tina: When I was in college, this girl who lived next, door to me was very vocal. Whenever her boyfriend came over, it was like listening to my own porn tape: the screaming, the heavy breathing. I'd get so hot lying on my bed by myself, tucked in with Mr. Vibrator. I was exhausted by the time (continued on page 132)Girl Talk(continued from page 126) they finally came. The three of us should have had a cigarette afterward.

•

Speaking of threesomes ....

Trish: Absolutely not! I could never do it with another woman. I wouldn't want to share the power or the conquest. Two men might be interesting, but they'd have to be two guys I could trust.

Teri: I've done that and now I wish I had left it as a fantasy. It made me feel cheap.

Annette: Guys do these things purely for the sexual experience. A man would never do something like that with someone he wanted to be involved with.

Sherry: Not true. I was once going with this guy who was always bugging me about doing a threesome with another woman. His ex-wife had been bisexual, and I began to wonder if I were missing out on something. So one night the opportunity arose. I really got into it. I wanted him to do her while I watched. I especially wanted to watch him take her from behind.

Tina: Are we talking anal sex?

Sherry: Yeah, that's what made it so exciting. But the girl said that the only way she'd let him do that was if she could go down on me at the same time. I guess she wanted a distraction.

Teri: Or maybe she just wanted to go down on you.

Sherry: Whatever. But I've got to tell you, women really know how to do it to other women. I haven't met a man yet who could match it. Women know the rhythm, where to go.

Trish: Sorry, that's one dance I'd rather sit out. It's the strength of a man's body that makes sex exciting.

Annette: I agree, but one at a time. I'd wonder about a guy who'd allow another man in bed with his woman. It could get rough--like the guys would be comparing their performances. That couldn't be very good for the woman.

•

Have you ever had sex with two guys on the same day?

Teri: I wouldn't do it now--it's too risky. But years ago? Sure. I might have had one for breakfast and one for dinner.

Dayna: Not me. I couldn't do that. We're talking about intercourse, right?

Annette: It's OK to do everything else?

Dayna: I just couldn't feel comfortable having intercourse with two guys on the same day.

Tina: When I was seeing Rick, I'd spend the night with him, go to breakfast with him on Sunday morning, then go home, change clothes and spend the day flying with Ron. We'd put the plane on autopilot and play. We never actually fucked.

Trish: Would you go back to Rick later that night, just for the sexual release?

Tina: Sure.

Dayna: And you didn't feel guilty?

Tina: No, because he was always playing head games, flirting with other women.

Cheryl: See? Guys don't realize they push us to cheat on them. I've done it and it's always been out of anger.

Annette: The only time I ever cheated on my ex-husband, it was out of anger or maybe even insecurity. I was uptight about this female friend of his, and I needed to get back at him--without his knowing, just in my own head. There was this guy I'd known for years; he'd always had a thing for me. I met him in the city one night and we went to a hotel. It was so bad. I couldn't wait to get out of there. I cried the whole way home.

Trish: Was the sex bad or did you feel guilty?

Annette: Total guilt. Of course, years later, during all those separations, I wanted to say, "Fuck you! Look at what I did!" But I never did.

Lisa: When I cheated, no one pushed me to do it and I never felt guilty about it. I had been with Frank for years and I had to know what I was missing before I could think about marrying him.

Teri: You were thinking about marrying this guy, so you went out and fucked someone else?

Lisa: I wasn't sure what I was feeling, but I knew I had to find out before I made anything final. Sex wasn't exciting with him anymore. So I started spending my evenings with Larry. He was teaching me about real estate and there was this mental thing. He was so different, so exciting. What really confused me was that the two of them didn't compare sizewise. Larry was only this big [holds her finger and thumb an inch apart].

Cheryl: No!

Lisa: Yes, and that's what confused me. I wanted to figure out why someone that small excited me so much more than someone I had been with for years.

•

How important is dick size?

Annette: I know men would hate to hear this because it confirms their worst fears, but I've definitely had the best sex with men who are large. Maybe they have more confidence when they're large.

Sherry: Oh, come on. It's not really so different when they're small. You just don't feel as full, that's all.

Cheryl: Sometimes when they're shorter and smaller, they come out when you don't want them to. If you move the wrong way, they pop out.

Annette: Well, I hate it when they apologize for being small. I mean, what are you supposed to say?

Lisa: You know how guys are. They're so insecure.

Sherry: But it's really not quantity--it's quality. Besides, for me at least, bigger isn't necessarily better when it comes to oral sex. I don't have a big mouth, and it's just not comfortable for me with a big penis in there. I feel like I'm choking.

Lisa: Guys who are young and hung--they don't know what to do with it. They think they're just supposed to slam it in.

Trish: Right. Just because they're large doesn't necessarily make them good.

•

So if size really isn't crucial, what is the most important attribute for a lover?

Cheryl: How long they can go. Stamina.

Trish: Their desire to please.

Sherry: Tenderness, sincerity.

Lisa: The way he looks.

Sherry: No--the way he looks at you.

Annette: Right. He has to be constantly aware of you and where you are. He has to want to do things with you, not lost in his own world.

Dayna: I like a guy who smells good. Smell is critical.

Annette: Not those guys who pour on cologne?

Dayna: No, their natural smell.

Lisa: They have to be tall and big. They have to have presence. And there's kissing. If he can't kiss, I can't go any further.

Dayna: A lot of foreplay. I need a lot of touching. And I want him to tell me I'm hot, that I'm gorgeous.

Annette: I want him to be able to laugh in bed. Not to think his coming is the Second Coming.

Tina: Friendship is the bottom line. You care about a friend, no matter what.

Sherry: The best lover is obviously the one who loves you.

•

Have you ever dealt with a reluctant male?

Dayna: I had a guy who didn't kiss me until the sixth date. I had already decided if he didn't kiss me on that date, he was definitely gay. He turned out to be one of the best kissers. I guess he was just warming up or something.

Sherry: I was with one guy who took so long that I began to think of it as a friendship. By the time he made his move, I was appalled. I had put those feelings away.

Annette: So how soon do they need to make the move?

Cheryl: First date. Otherwise there's no second date. If he doesn't, I think there's something wrong. I'm not aggressive enough to say, "Hey, let's go fuck." But I can do other stuff.

Trish: Like?

Cheryl: Like talking about it all the time until they make the move. I once talked to a guy about blow jobs nonstop until he finally broke down.

•

Have you ever given in to a guy who was pressuring you to have sex?

Tina: No.

Teri: No way. Never. It would make me more determined to walk away.

Trish: My very first time, I was under pressure. I was eighteen and he told me in no uncertain terms that he would leave me if I didn't do it.

Sherry: Haven't we all gone further than we intended to under pressure? You think you're just going to kiss, then you get tired of pushing away his hands.

Annette: Why do men think that just because you let them kiss you, they have free reign to fuck you?

Sherry: It's infuriating. I recently had a date with this guy who came over to my place with a bottle of champagne and carry-out Chinese. Things started off great. Then he began to kiss me. Five minutes later, this supposedly great guy turned into an octopus. He insisted that he couldn't just kiss me, that he got too excited and it hurt.

Cheryl: It hurt?

Sherry: Right: blue balls. And after only five minutes. He went on and on about how this was a guy thing, and then when I told him he couldn't spend the night, he tried to negotiate with me. He announced that a hand job would be a nice compromise.

Trish: Did you come to any agreement?

Sherry: Yeah. He agreed to get out of my apartment and I agreed not to tell every girl in town what an asshole he was.

•

What do you think happened at the Kennedy compound that night in Palm Beach?

Lisa: She was stupid and she teased him. She got to a point where she didn't want to go any further, and he had already gotten to a point where he wanted it.

Trish: Maybe she didn't want to play the game as long and hard and furious as he did. Sometimes guys can be forceful.

Dayna: Isn't that rape?

Sherry: Both of them were drunk. When a girl says no, is he going to listen when he's been drinking? Maybe she doesn't even remember what she said.

Lisa: I don't think it was rape. That type of person isn't going to go out and rape somebody.

Annette: Are you kidding? People like that get whatever they want all the time. They're on a power trip.

Cheryl: William Kennedy Smith went out to have a good time. He met someone who he felt was inconsequential but interested in him and he decided to take things as far as he could. Maybe she was looking for a relationship and he saw her as a commodity that was available in his territory. He felt that he could do whatever he wanted with her.

Teri: I definitely think he raped her. Nobody except a masochist would put herself through what she's been through. No woman wants her underwear shown on television.

•

Has AIDS changed the way you pick partners and what type of sex you have?

Cheryl: It's put a real damper on things. I like sleeping with different men--I enjoy sex--but you can't just go out and fuck someone anymore. Now you have to worry about what he's got. It sucks.

Dayna: You need to have the ultimate trust in someone. You have to know about their history.

Trish: Their old girlfriends. Ex-wives.

Annette: There have been times I've thought, Maybe I just won't get involved with anybody. Or maybe I'll go back to my ex-husband and have great sex and a shitty life.

Trish: I'm terrified. Greg's not twenty-five anymore and he's not out boffing every chick in town. But he did go wild after his divorce.

Dayna: Don't you use condoms?

Trish: We do now, but we didn't for a very long time.

Dayna: Why not?

Trish: He wouldn't.

Dayna: So what's the point? Why use them now?

Trish: Because it may not be too late. It doesn't hurt to be safe.

Sherry: I'd never have sex with anyone unless he was wearing a condom.

Trish: But it's not always that easy.

Annette: What's so difficult? Tell him he either wears one or he goes somewhere else to get it.

Tina: I think condoms are disgusting. I'd rather stick to one person I really like and chance it than use one of those.

Sherry: Would you at least ask a guy to get tested?

Tina: No, I'd like to think my judgment was better than that.

Cheryl: How would you say that anyway? "I have this friend down at the local AIDS testing center--"

Dayna: What if your judgment was wrong, Tina?

Tina: Then I guess it's too late.

•

Can you have really hot sex with someone you sleep with all the time?

Trish: It all depends on the chemistry. With Greg, it's hot every time because we're the same kind of sexual people. I could sleep with him seven nights a week and it would never be boring.

Annette: It's important that you both like the same things. It was great with Tony every time because we both liked it rough and hard and rowdy--none of this passive stuff.

Cheryl: But face it, things get boring. You have to be into each other for great sex, and how often does that happen?

Sherry: Sex is more like an ebb and flow, a cyclical pattern in a relationship. As much as I'd like a happy, uninterrupted sex life, it's unrealistic to assume that there won't be times that aren't completely satisfying. But those times could be clues that there are other problems that have to be looked at.

•

What's the one piece of advice you'd give men about pleasing women?

Trish: What they really need to learn is the art of seduction. A man needs to make a woman feel like he really adores her, even if he's faking it, you know, like gigolos do. He should make her feel like she's the most beautiful girl in the world.

"I want them to be womanizers. They're the best lovers--they adore women, all shapes, all sizes."

"I want him to be able to laugh in bed. Not to think his coming is the Second Coming."