Playboy Interview: Tim Robbins

Long-legged and lean, clad in mechanic's coveralls, his hair slicked back, eyes hidden behind Wayfarer shades, Tim Robbins is a figure of both solitude and magnetism, a vision of cool as he stands outside the Hopewell, New Jersey service station that doubles this day as a movie location.

"The giant Elvis," remarks an assistant director, and Robbins cracks a smile. "That was for a skit we had for 'Saturday Night Live,' he says, "but it never ran." Pause. "It was too funny," he adds, not without a note of irony.

The shrug. The cool. The I'm-smarter-than-you-but-who-cares demeanor. It all adds up to the very tall, very talented and, these days, very visible Tim Robbins--a movie star poised to capture the title of America's hardest-working box-office attraction. In the past six months alone he has appeared in three major films: as a man who is wrongly convicted of murder and sent to prison in "The Shawshank Redemption," as a Fifties garage mechanic posing as a physicist in order to woo Albert Einstein's niece (Meg Ryan) in "I.Q.," directed by Fred Schepisi, and romancing Julia Roberts in Robert Altman's high-fashion mystery-comedy, "Prêt-à-Porter."

At 36, Robbins is a unique blend of baby boomer and slacker--a Sixties-style social activist with a soft spot for the loud, hard, in-your-face attitude of Generation X. As an intelligent and outspoken social critic, he is capable of ruffling establishment feathers--whether with the biting political satire "Bob Roberts" or with his public denunciation of the Clinton administration's Haiti policy. He made the Haitian plea while presenting an Oscar at the 1993 Academy Awards ceremony; he was also one of the few in Hollywood to speak out against the Persian Gulf war. And through it all, Robbins manages to remain a committed father of two and stepfather of one in his relationship with actress Susan Sarandon, with whom he has lived since shortly after they finished filming "Bull Durham" in 1988.

Robbins was born on October 16, 1958 in West Covina, California and moved with his parents and three older siblings from California to New York's Greenwich Village when he was just two. His father, Gil, was an actor and a member of the folk music group the Highwaymen ("Michael [Row the Boat Ashore]"). Gil Robbins also co-managed the Gaslight café, where young Tim would do odd jobs while watching new careers blossom--including Tom Paxton's, Dave Van Ronk's and Cat Stevens'.

He discovered theater when he was 12, tagging along with his sisters to New York's Theater for the New City. For the next seven years he worked there in any job that needed filling, from actor to lighting technician. He followed that with performing street theater throughout the city's neighborhoods, a rugged experience that gave Robbins the gumption to begin directing plays in high school and later at the State University of New York at Plattsburgh. After two years at SUNY, he moved to California and enrolled at UCLA.

In Los Angeles Robbins and several classmates formed the Actors' Gang, an offbeat, iconoclastic troupe that debuted with a critically acclaimed midnight run of Alfred Jarry's "Ubu the King." Even as he was developing the Gang's repertoire (he is still its artistic director), Hollywood tapped his acting skills--first for guest spots on such TV dramas as "St. Elsewhere" and "Hill Street Blues," then for a variety of film roles, including a stint in a lowbrow comedy called "Fraternity Vacation" and a bit part in "Top Gun."

A wonderfully comic--if small--turn in Rob Reiner's "The Sure Thing" (opposite friend John Cusack) led to choicer assignments: as the socially conscious Bronx tough in the underrated "Five Corners" and as a goofy scientist in the box-office bomb "Howard the Duck." But it was his performance as the flaky pitcher Ebby "Nuke" LaLoosh in Ron Shelton's 1988 hit, "Bull Durham," that lit the fuse on Robbins' career. Holding his own opposite the likes of newcomer Kevin Costner and Sarandon, Robbins was a comic marvel: mangling the song "Try a Little Tenderness," heaving wild pitches and, most memorably, stepping up to the mound wearing a woman's garter belt for luck.

Still, it would take four years of strong roles in lesser films ("Jacob's Ladder," "Miss Firecracker," "Cadillac Man") before Robbins' big breakthrough in 1992. That year, he received the best actor award at the Cannes Film Festival for his performance as the morally ambivalent movie executive Griffin Mill in Altman's "The Player," a coruscating look at Hollywood in which the harassed exec murders a writer and gets away with it. Robbins followed that by writing and starring in "Bob Roberts" (also his directorial debut), a prescient documentary send-up about a political campaign that seems to have predicted everything from the rise of Ross Perot to Bill Clinton's sax-tootling on late-night TV.

In the wake of "Bob Roberts," Robbins promptly scored twice more--as a hilariously duplicitous highway patrolman in Altman's "Short Cuts" and as the good-hearted but dumb mailroom boy turned executive patsy in Joel and Ethan Coen's screwball comedy "The Hudsucker Proxy."

"Robbins has the gift of looking just right for each of his roles, and he has a puckish, commanding presence," remarked Pauline Kael after seeing "Jacob's Ladder." "He makes you feel that behind his sneaky, demon eyes, he's thinking thoughts no character in a movie has ever thought before."

We sent journalistMarshall Fine,whose previous "Playboy Interview" was with Howard Stern, to talk with Robbins. Here's Fine's report:

"I caught up with Robbins on the set of 'I.Q.,' where we spoke at length over the course of two days. He seemed eager to talk and cleared all free moments to do so: through his lunch hours and for 10- and 20-minute clips between scenes. He is a deliberate talker. Bright, wary and intent to not say anything he doesn't mean, he often paused thoughtfully before answering a question. Listening to the tapes, I clocked one such pause at 15 seconds.

"And that's when he's talking about something he's interested in discussing. Ask him a question about his personal life--specifically about Sarandon--and he instantly shuts up, smiling enigmatically, then dropping a noncommittal response or a coy one-liner.

"I waited until the end of the interview to try my own hand at the personal questions. As you'll see, his reaction was pure Robbins. But first, we began with his brain."

[Q] Playboy: When people talk about you, they always seem to mention your intelligence. Because your recent film is called I.Q., we'd like to know: What's yours?

[A] Robbins: I don't know. I've never had it tested.

[Q] Playboy: You've never gone back to look for it in your school records?

[A] Robbins: No, no, I would never do that. I've never been administered an IQ test. But in high school I was a B student. College, I was a little bit better.

[Q] Playboy: Does the fact that your intelligence is even worth commenting on imply that most actors aren't very smart?

[A] Robbins: I wouldn't know. Most of the good actors have a huge intelligence about the human condition and a real open heart to different kinds of people and behavior. There are dumb actors. But there are dumb politicians and dumb bakers. I suppose the broad generalization about actors has to do with the need on the actors' part--and also on the part of people who write articles about actors--to place appearance and glamour above intelligence.

[Q] Playboy: Let's talk about politics.

[A] Robbins: Oh, cutting right to the chase.

[Q] Playboy: Sure, why not?

[A] Robbins: Why don't I just talk about my personal life? [Laughs]

[Q] Playboy: We'll get to that. Why are politically active actors often portrayed as dilettantes?

[A] Robbins: Well, it depends on who we're talking about. Some are that way. Certainly some of the people who get involved in politics or social causes could be better informed for the good of the cause.

[Q] Playboy: Care to mention any names?

[A] Robbins: No. But, personally, I view it as my responsibility to continue to be what I've always been. I've always been involved with the society at large. When someone who has access to those outlets chooses to talk about it, they're jumped on. You know, "What right have actors to talk about things?" But what is that saying--that we should listen just to economists and lawyers and people who are paid by special interest groups to have opinions? Scientists who are on the payroll of the cigarette companies?

There aren't a whole lot of actors and celebrities who speak out anymore. When someone is publicly castigated, it has an effect. You think, Should I do this? Should I buck this trend? Or should I just shut up and not worry about this stuff? Because it's going to cost me professionally. I think most people opt for the latter.

[Q] Playboy: Your most political film, Bob Roberts, was criticized as having an ax to grind and for preaching to the converted.

[A] Robbins: I disagree, because it also got attacked from the left--or what the media characterize as the left, which would be your standard-issue, liberal, middle-of-the-road moderates, as far as I'm concerned. That's actually what I took the most delight in: the response from those moderates. We also got a positive response from Republicans who saw the movie and loved it. I asked them why and they said, "Because we don't want Bob Roberts in our party." There are a great number of Republicans who are economically conservative but have hearts and a consciousness about their country.

[Q] Playboy: Realistically, where do you think most of Hollywood sits on the political spectrum?

[A] Robbins: Moderate to right wing.

[Q] Playboy: Why?

[A] Robbins: Because I don't really see a lot of progressive work being done there. It's certainly a lot more difficult to get a project made if you're talking about something progressive. That's just the nature of the industry, I suppose. There have been people who have had progressive minds and hearts, who have had the courage to step outside the mainstream and make a statement. But they are not the majority.

[Q] Playboy: Then why do Republicans continue to harp on Hollywood as a haven of left-wing liberals?

[A] Robbins: They also portray the media as very left wing, which is a huge lie. But if you're a magician, you don't want the audience looking certain places during a magic trick. So you divert their attention elsewhere. A noise, a light, a sound. Republicans do that, too.

If the news organizations would give [other matters] a fraction of the time they've given to the O.J. Simpson case, we would be an incredibly informed, aware society. Can you imagine if they spent that kind of time telling us where our tax dollars go?

The American people are not evil. Given information, they will do the right thing. But they're not given the information. Haiti is a good example. When Susan [Sarandon] and I spoke out about Haiti at the Oscars, that had been going on for three years, but there was simply no information--certainly not on any network news program.

[Q] Playboy: Gilbert Cates, the producer of the Oscar telecast, was very public last year in saying that he had not invited you and Susan back.

[A] Robbins: He was?

[Q] Playboy: He said that people who had been politically outspoken the year before--he mentioned you two and Richard Gere--had specifically not been invited back.

[A] Robbins: Well, he would have been very comfortable in a fascist society. They would have loved him. It's that kind of person who is a real detriment to a democracy. When you have a person in power who punishes people for speaking their mind, it's truly dangerous to this society. Someone should call him to task for it. It can't be me because I've got a personal involvement. Although I couldn't care less about being a presenter at the Oscars.

[Q] Playboy: Why do you think there was such an outcry?

[A] Robbins: Maybe the answer is in the result. People shut up. People don't speak their mind after something like that happens. We were talking about a disgrace. We were talking about the U.S. government in effect running a concentration camp in Guantánamo Bay for people who had tested positive for HIV. Maybe people just didn't want to hear that. But I thought it was the height of hypocrisy that, in a room filled with red ribbons, which were supposed to signify an awareness of and compassion for people with HIV and AIDS, there could be this kind of reaction.

When people talk about inappropriate, I would love to know when the appropriate time is to talk about a concentration camp in Guantánamo Bay. Should there be a day for this, a national protest day when everyone gets to speak their mind in public? It's ridiculous, the concept of whether something is appropriate or not.

[Q] Playboy: What has your activism cost you personally?

[A] Robbins: I don't think it has cost me anything. I think it's given me strength and satisfaction. If you're in the position to help someone and you do it, it's very rewarding.

[Q] Playboy: Who is more political, you or Susan?

[A] Robbins: Well, I don't know about that word--political.

[Q] Playboy: Who's more conscious on a daily basis?

[A] Robbins: Susan is.

[Q] Playboy: How?

[A] Robbins: She's more involved on a day-to-day basis. I tend to take that energy and try to write. She'll work actively with organizations more than I will.

[Q] Playboy: If you were in charge of a TV network, how would you cover the next presidential election?

[A] Robbins: I would give everyone equal access. I mean everyone--even the lunatics. Because when you make the judgment as a network that there are only three candidates, you are censoring points of view. I mean, what are they scared of? Who's going to vote for anyone from the Communist Party, for God's sake? You know? People don't want that.

[Q] Playboy: Has President Clinton been a disappointment to you?

[A] Robbins: In some ways, yes. He was never my guy. But I'm glad he's in rather than Bush or Perot. I think he's been subject to relentless attacks--since before he was inaugurated--by the Republican Party, by certain factions of the Democratic Party, by doctors, by the military and by people in the press who are beholden to those interests.

I don't care about his haircuts or his affairs or any of that stuff. But there are a lot of powerful people who have a lot to lose, and that's a large part of the reason he's been attacked so relentlessly from the beginning.

[Q] Playboy: If you had an hour with Clinton, what would you say to him?

[A] Robbins: I'd want to know who he is, because I'm not sure he's who people think he is. The problem with talking with politicians is that they know how to read people. They say what needs to be said and don't say what they might really feel. They need your vote. They need your support or your money.

So I don't know if I'd get an honest answer. I'd say, "Bill, what are you going to do?" And he'd say, "I'm trying this and that. I'm doing everything I can." And that's a bunch of horseshit. That would be a waste of an hour.

[Q] Playboy: If they put you in charge of the war on drugs, what would you do?

[A] Robbins: Legalize marijuana.

[Q] Playboy: And then?

[A] Robbins: And then we would save an enormous amount of taxpayer money, specifically on the penal system, which is overloaded with marijuana abusers. It's unbelievable. When I did The Shawshank Redemption, every guard I talked with who had worked in a prison had this opinion: Legalize marijuana. There's no reason these kids should be here. They haven't committed a crime against anyone. And when they leave, they'll find they have learned the skills of different trades: armed robbery, burglary, assault.

Marijuana is just like any other thing that might not be good for you. If you do too much of it, it can screw up your life. But it can't screw up your life like cocaine or heroin or downs or ups or LSD.

[Q] Playboy: Is this an admission that you still smoke pot--or was that just a phase you went through as a kid?

[A] Robbins: I take the Fifth. [Laughs] Considering the fact that it's still illegal, I don't see how it would be wise to--let's put it this way: Considering the fact that I've used it in the past, and know what it is, and seen the results of it, I don't view it as a dangerous drug. I've also used other drugs that I do consider to be dangerous, drugs that are potentially detrimental to kids and society at large.

But I don't want to advocate anything like [smoking pot] in print, because it's a different thing for different people. Some people can handle it, some can't. Some people get really dumb and stupid and embarrassing on pot and some people are funny and creative. But for me to just blanketly say that I use it and, therefore, other people should, would be, I think, irresponsible.

[Q] Playboy: So what would you say if your kids came to you one day and said: "Dad, did you ever take drugs in the Sixties and Seventies?"

[A] Robbins: I would say, "No, it was the Eighties." [Laughs] Yeah, I would be honest with them. And I'd tell them exactly what each drug does to you.

[Q] Playboy: You realize that, having admitted these things now, you've just disqualified yourself from being a Supreme Court justice or the attorney general.

[A] Robbins: Well, I didn't say I inhaled.

[Q] Playboy: Let's move on to political buzzwords. What does "family values" mean to you?

[A] Robbins: I resent that the attempt was made to appropriate that term for one political way of thinking. The problem at the time was that people were using the term as an idea of what a family is.

But there are so many different kinds of families other than the male-female, son-daughter family. There are all kinds of setups: grandmothers and grandfathers taking care of their kids' kids, aunts and uncles, stepfathers and stepmothers. Brothers and sisters raising children. Homosexual couples and people with no blood relation raising children. What's important is that the children receive love and nurturing and caring, not that they have their biological mother and father, though it would be wonderful if that were the case.

[Q] Playboy: How about "cultural elite"?

[A] Robbins: I'm honored to be a member of it, according to Newsweek. My acting company, Actors' Gang, was the only theater company mentioned in the cultural-elite article, so we were very proud. [Laughs]

[Q] Playboy: What does that phrase say to people?

[A] Robbins: It's just another way of trying to take people's attention away from the real issues. In the Fifties, I believe, the word used was "intellectual." It was condescending to use the word intellectual; an intellectual could not possibly have any feeling or knowledge of the life of the American worker or housewife. The intellectual is the enemy. You know, a bunch of horseshit.

[Q] Playboy: What about "character issues"? This term came up during the 1992 election in regard to Clinton's draft record and his alleged philandering. What does it mean to you?

[A] Robbins: Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.

[Q] Playboy: "Political correctness"?

[A] Robbins: For me, using the term politically correct is a way of dismissing people who are concerned. It's a way of dismissing compassion, a way of dismissing people who feel for humanity. It's being used in a very cynical way.

[Q] Playboy: If you were going to run for office, how would you do it?

[A] Robbins: I wouldn't.

[Q] Playboy: But say that you were. Say that something compelled you to run and you couldn't stop yourself.

[A] Robbins: I would stop myself. There is absolutely no way that I would enter that world.

[Q] Playboy: Why?

[A] Robbins: Because of the compromise.

[Q] Playboy: You don't think you can do it without compromise?

[A] Robbins: No. You can't. Do you realize that senators have to raise $10,000 every week to stay in office? You've got to be on the phone making compromises to someone to get that kind of cash.

[Q] Playboy: But if you were running for office, how would you deal with character issues when they came up? How should Clinton and other politicians handle this?

[A] Robbins: "Mind your own fucking business." That's what I would say. And I wouldn't even get elected. And I'd probably deck a couple of people, too--which would not play very well with the national media.

[Q] Playboy:Bob Roberts was the first feature film you directed. How did you feel when Robert Altman compared you to Orson Welles?

[A] Robbins: At first I was incredibly flattered. Then I started thinking about the ramifications. What does that mean? That Hollywood is going to torture me for the rest of my life? [Laughs] The guy couldn't get a film made after The Magnificent Ambersons--and they recut that. So, you know, I was flattered but wary.

[Q] Playboy: After Bob Roberts came out, you got offers to direct studio pictures. Does that interest you?

[A] Robbins: It would depend on the script. I definitely will not direct a film just for the job or for the money. It's too much of a pain and too much of a heartache to do something you don't truly believe in. It's just so torturous.

[Q] Playboy: What's the difference between what you get out of acting and what you get out of directing?

[A] Robbins: You get money out of acting. You get gray hair out of directing. Actually, I get more of a rush from directing.

[Q] Playboy: Why?

[A] Robbins: Because directing is creating a whole. You're able to combine different elements and create a film or a piece of theater that is unique and true to your vision.

[Q] Playboy: You've worked for a lot of the top directors of your time. Give us thumbnail sketches of a few of them, if you would. Start with Rob Reiner [The Real Thing].

[A] Robbins: Incredibly talented. Loves actors. Fun to be around. I would work with him again in a second.

[Q] Playboy: Tony Scott [Top Gun].

[A] Robbins: He's a wild man. He loves his motorcycles and he's got a kind of great, arrogant attitude toward life. I didn't work with him that much on that film--just a couple of weeks.

[Q] Playboy: Robert Altman [The Player, Short Cuts, Prêt-à-Porter].

[A] Robbins: I feel real fortunate to have had the opportunity to work with him. He has taught me a lot about filmmaking and about survival, about how to keep your soul and how to know your priorities and how to live up to them.

[Q] Playboy: Spike Lee [Jungle Fever].

[A] Robbins: I like Spike a lot. He's incredibly gifted and I don't think he gets the credit he deserves as a filmmaker.

[Q] Playboy: Ron Shelton [Bull Durham].

[A] Robbins: I had a lot of fun working with Ron. He's a good friend and the godfather of my son Jack Henry. He taught me a great lesson about writing women's roles, which is: Write the character as a man, then switch the gender later.

[Q] Playboy: How about Adrian Lyne [Jacob's Ladder]?

[A] Robbins: Very visual.

[Q] Playboy: That's diplomatic. The Coen brothers [Hudsucker Proxy]?

[A] Robbins: I think their films are going to be appreciated by more people later. They're visionaries, but I don't know if they'll ever do a commercial film. And for all their bizarreness, they're two of the most normal guys I know.

[Q] Playboy: Tim Robbins [Bob Roberts]?

[A] Robbins: What a bastard. I would never work for him again.

[Q] Playboy: Fred Schepisi [I.Q.]?

[A] Robbins: Fred has extraordinary patience and grace with the people he works with. And since there were a lot of discussions about the script, I have to say in retrospect that I admire him for keeping his patience and working with all of us in a positive way.

[Q] Playboy: Let's talk about that. There were problems with the I.Q. script, and it was actually being rewritten while you were filming. What does that do to the mood on the set?

[A] Robbins: You just have to have faith that the words that are being written at the last minute are going to work. In this case it was Schepsi's movie, and it was up to him and his collaborators--myself included--to pull it off. His instincts are ultimately the ones that will wind up on the screen.

[Q] Playboy: Given your scholastic record in math and science, do you see any irony in playing a guy who pals around with Einstein?

[A] Robbins: [Laughs] Yes, I do. I think, though, that the character I play is a little more interested in science than I was.

[Q] Playboy: You play a mechanic in the film. Are you mechanical at all?

[A] Robbins: No. I can fix things around the house and work a computer, but I could never invent a computer or fix a car.

[Q] Playboy: Why is it so hard to make a good romantic comedy like I.Q.?

[A] Robbins: Any time you're trying to do a movie with a happy ending, it's very difficult because it's been done before and you don't want to be manipulative.

[Q] Playboy: Aren't all movies manipulative?

[A] Robbins: In their structure, yes, but you should arrive at the ending out of true behavior, real behavior. You don't want to arrive there artificially. For example, Shawshank has an ending that's uplifting, but it's done in a way that's real and truly moving.

[Q] Playboy: In researching your character for The Player, you followed two studio executives around, David Hoberman from Touchstone and Bill Gerber from Warner Bros. What did you learn in the time you spent with them?

[A] Robbins: Phone etiquette. I listened in on some of their phone calls. There's an awful lot of politics in the job, and 80 percent of that is staying in touch with people who may, at some point, have something you want. So these guys make 100, 200 phone calls a day to different people around the town. Writers, directors, actors, other studio heads, competitors, restaurateurs, club owners. They see a new movie, they call all the creative people in it. They want to touch base with them.

[Q] Playboy: Did you pick up anything else?

[A] Robbins: From those two guys? Yeah. Billy dresses well. And neither one of them is evil.

[Q] Playboy: Had you gone in thinking that they were?

[A] Robbins: Not them specifically, but executives in general, yes. But I came to understand that there are people in the industry who start out wanting to make films of substance, but in order to rise on that ladder, they have to make a certain number of compromises. In doing so, they risk losing sight of what they originally intended to do.

[Q] Playboy: There's that word, compromise, again. You used it when you were talking about politicians and now when you're talking about movie executives. What are you willing to compromise?

[A] Robbins: My sleep time.

[Q] Playboy: That's it?

[A] Robbins: I've long ago compromised my eight hours a night.

[Q] Playboy: Anything else, professionally or personally?

[A] Robbins: I guess what I'm talking about is compromising integrity. If you find yourself in a movie that you have questions about, it's not a compromise to your integrity to show up for work and do your job. I think it would be a compromise to do a job just for the sake of the money and not be concerned about what's in the script. But, again, I'm lucky that I'm not in that position.

[Q] Playboy: You did frontal nudity in The Player, though you were covered with mud in the scene. What's the hang-up about male nudity in films?

[A] Robbins: I don't know what it is. I don't know a lot of women who are turned on by a flaccid dick, either. But there's also the theory that nudity doesn't really make something sexy--the characters and their relationship make it sexy. The scene in The Player in which Greta Scacchi and I make love is filmed, I think, in a way that's incredibly sexy. And you don't see anything but our faces.

[Q] Playboy: What topics scare Hollywood the most?

[A] Robbins: Politics. And African Americans--if they don't have Uzis. I don't think people have been able to deal with the fact that African American filmmakers can make movies about life and relationships. It's interesting to see the ascendancy of certain African American filmmakers who don't shy away from portraying the urban hellhole, the violence, the gangs--

[Q] Playboy: The hood films.

[A] Robbins: The hood films. I'm sure it's much easier for an African American filmmaker to walk into an office and say, "I want to do a film about gangbanging, about the gangs," than it is for one to walk in and say, "I want to do a film about two people falling in love."

[Q] Playboy: What was it like to film Shawshank in prison?

[A] Robbins: We shot in the Ohio State Reformatory in Mansfield, Ohio, a prison that had been shut down a few years before. The walls were still full of deep sorrow and pain. The conditions were horrifying. Two and three people in a cell no bigger than a car. Rats. No running water. No sense of the outside. A real Victorian hellhole.

Should prison be a country club? No. But this was out of control.

[Q] Playboy: In preparing for the film, you had yourself put in leg irons and placed in a cell in an actual prison. How long were you in for?

[A] Robbins: I was in for a few hours, about three hours.

[Q] Playboy: Why?

[A] Robbins: Because I wanted to hear it and feel it and see what it did to me. I tried to imagine what it was really like to be in there. But, ultimately, I can't tell you that I had an experience filled with suffering and pain, because I knew I was going to get out.

[Q] Playboy: Is that part of your technique in creating a role?

[A] Robbins: I wouldn't say I'm a method actor. I do research when I feel I don't have enough experience for the part I'm playing. I try to use my imagination more than emotional recall. I don't buy that if an actor is thinking about something painful in his personal life and he cries on-screen, that it's really the character crying.

[Q] Playboy: Let's back up. What got you interested in theater?

[A] Robbins: A couple of things. Seeing my father onstage. Being around that world with him, backstage, that old smell-of-the-greasepaint thing. Seeing the response from people who had seen him in a play was very exciting.

In my childhood I really wanted to be an athlete, a baseball player or a hockey player. But around the time I was 12, my sisters were working in a theater in Greenwich Village called the Theater for the New City, and I would sometimes go down to rehearsal with them. I started getting on my feet and clowning around, and they ended up putting me in a play when I was 12. And I was hooked.

[Q] Playboy: So you began acting regularly at the Theater for the New City?

[A] Robbins: Pretty much, yeah. I also ran spotlight. Swept up. Did box office. Ran the lighting board. But acting was the most fun. Plus, it got the attention of the girls. Not many girls fall in love with spotlight operators.

Anyway, I didn't really understand how unique and wonderful my training had been until I went away to college when I was 17 and started studying in a traditional theater department. I began discovering Ibsen and Chekhov. I'd already been trained in absurdism and surrealism, and now I was starting to learn what happened before that. But my concept of theater has always been pretty strange. I don't care for gratuitous realism; I think it's boring. I like spectacle. I like the idea of theater as an event.

[Q] Playboy: Getting back to your childhood, you were the youngest of four children, right?

[A] Robbins: Yes. I don't remember much of my childhood before the age of six. From what I hear, everyone did my talking for me. I didn't really speak until I was three and a half or so. I didn't really have words. My father described me as the oldest baby he'd ever seen. I apparently was very serious and reflective.

[Q] Playboy: How old were you when you first became aware of what your father did for a living?

[A] Robbins: I must have been three or four. I saw him in concert.

[Q] Playboy: What was that like?

[A] Robbins: I have a very vague, cloudy memory of that concert. But I do remember everyone singing along, clapping and laughing at something my father had said. And I remember I felt pretty good about that. There was something really intoxicating about it.

[Q] Playboy: Did he ever talk with you about your wanting to go into show business?

[A] Robbins: Uh-huh--he discouraged it. When I said I wanted to major in acting in college, he told me that it was a difficult life, that there was unemployment, that it was something that you have to continue to work at, that you can never relax with it.

[Q] Playboy: Would you want your kids to become actors?

[A] Robbins: If it makes them happy. But I would want them first to have a well-rounded education like I was able to get. There's nothing more boring than unintelligent actors, because all they have to talk about is themselves and acting. There have to be other things.

[Q] Playboy: As a kid, you got kicked out of league hockey for fighting. Were fist-fights a regular part of your life?

[A] Robbins: Well, yeah. You had to know how to fight or you had to know how to avoid a fight. Growing up in that neighborhood, if you avoided a fight, it sometimes had more ramifications than if you just took a couple of licks. I didn't enjoy fighting, so I learned how to avoid them.

It was also dangerous to hit the wrong kid in my neighborhood, because a lot of the guys I played with had fathers in the Mafia. I remember being chased by a couple of them.

[Q] Playboy: By the kids or the fathers?

[A] Robbins: The fathers.

[Q] Playboy: What was it like being a Sixties kid growing up in the Village?

[A] Robbins: It's only in retrospect that I understand how special it was. Someday I have to write a book or a film about it, because when you grow up in something, you can't see how unique it is. You have no concept. It's just what life is.

But I was in the hub, right in the midst of a social and cultural revolution. This was the neighborhood where it happened--this and Haight-Ashbury were where everyone was gravitating.

On the one hand, there was Washington Square Park and protest marches and folksingers on the street. There were wildly dressed people. There was the flamboyance of the homosexuals. There was rock and roll. And on the other hand, I had practice after school in different sports--you know, normal childhood pursuits. I was a sports fan, but I also went to peace marches.

[Q] Playboy: Once you got interested in theater, your father didn't allow you to go to the High School of Performing Arts. Why not?

[A] Robbins: He said, "You have to get an education first." At the time I hated him for it. But, ultimately, he was dead-on right. I don't think those schools really produce intelligent people. They produce people who are technically better dancers and singers and actors. I learned never to listen to acting teachers because they don't know what the hell they're talking about.

[Q] Playboy: Those who can't do, teach?

[A] Robbins: That's right. And it's dangerous, I've seen it happen: A talented, instinctual actor is fed a lot of baloney by a teacher about different techniques and methods--and he's ruined. Everything that was good and fresh about this person is compromised--I won't use that word again--everything is sacrificed to the altar of the acting teacher's ego. The need to control. The need to have their little sheep.

I think it's a terrible profession. I think acting teachers are worthless. I learned so much more about acting from philosophy courses, psychology courses, history and anthropology than I ever learned in acting class. So I just don't believe in it.

[Q] Playboy: You and your family performed as the Cordless Family in something called the Eveready Tour. What do you remember about that?

[A] Robbins: It was a promotional tour in, I think, 1966. We toured the Eastern Seaboard and the Midwest for Eveready batteries. We drove in a Rambler station wagon, sang songs on the way, went sightseeing, stayed at hotels--a big thrill. In every city we would do a couple of television and radio spots promoting Eveready batteries.

[Q] Playboy: What was your part in that?

[A] Robbins: I had to play with a toy that was powered by batteries. It was a train, I think. I don't remember what my brother had. My father had a carving knife and my mother had a hair drier or something. My parents have pictures of that somewhere. They're pretty funny.

[Q] Playboy: Could you imagine doing something like that today?

[A] Robbins: Certainly not for Eveready batteries.

[Q] Playboy: How deep were the discussions at home--about politics, the civil rights movement, the Vietnam war?

[A] Robbins: We would discuss who Martin Luther King Jr. was and what he was trying to do. Our parents would say all of this tied in with our Catholicism and our responsibility to other human beings in the world. And it was our job to be as true as we could to our sense of justice and to Jesus Christ's sense of justice.

Meanwhile, my brother was going to be drafted soon, though the U.S. pulled out [of Vietnam] the year he was set to go. And my sister was arrested at Antioch College during a protest. The way my mother described that to me was: "You should be proud of her. She was fighting against this war, which is unjust." I think there are lessons you take from your parents, and one of the strongest ones I took from mine was that a mob isn't right. Just because your opinion is outnumbered doesn't mean you're wrong. Many times throughout history, it's been a sole voice that's been the right one. Just because someone gets arrested doesn't mean what they're doing is wrong. Some laws are unfair and unjust.

[Q] Playboy: Heavy stuff for a ten-year-old.

[A] Robbins: Yeah. But when a ten-year-old has a sister who gets busted, you have to deal with that as a parent. And I think they did a good job of dealing with it.

[Q] Playboy: How big a part of your life was Catholicism?

[A] Robbins: Pretty big. I was an altar boy. I went to Catholic school until eighth grade. My father was the head of the choir. I would serve at Mass two or three times a week. I went to church every Sunday. At the same time, I don't think I was ever overly serious. I don't know if I ever really bought into the eternal damnation bit.

[Q] Playboy: What do you think about it today?

[A] Robbins: Catholicism or religion?

[Q] Playboy: Both.

[A] Robbins: I think Catholicism is... let's put it this way: I think there are a lot of valid lessons in any religion, but once a religion approaches dogma to the exclusion of any other religion, it becomes dangerous, hostile, something opposed to the spirit of the religion. There have been too many wars fought over who has the right God on their side. There's too much arrogance and hatred in people who consider themselves religious. So I distrust religion as an organization.

And yet it's interesting to think about Jesus Christ and what he was in that society. Put it in perspective. He was a radical. He was essentially advocating the overthrow of that government--and not a violent overthrow but a defiance of its laws and its society. Once you accept that concept, you begin thinking about the crucifixion in a new way: It was a political act intended to eliminate a voice. After Christ died, the succeeding generations made him who we now perceive him to be. But somewhere along the line that got corrupted.

Many governments have used any number of gods to keep people in their place and make them fear authority. To keep them paying their taxes. To give them lessons in humility. To justify unfairness and injustice. Historically that's what religion has been used for.

[Q] Playboy: Were you brought up to question authority?

[A] Robbins: To a degree, yeah.

[Q] Playboy: What about questioning your parents' authority?

[A] Robbins: That wasn't encouraged.

[Q] Playboy: What did they tell you about sex and drugs?

[A] Robbins: Drugs were around so much that they didn't have to tell us a lot--other than to take us for a walk on the street and show us. You know: "Mommy, what's that?"

"That's a junkie."

"What's a junkie?"

"He does heroin."

"Is that why his face is on the sidewalk?"

"Yes. He's taken heroin and he can't get up."

"Oh, well, that's a good lesson to learn. I don't want to do that."

[Q] Playboy: What about sex? Who explained the facts of life to you?

[A] Robbins: My father, probably, though I really don't remember the conversation. I was also looking at Playboy.

[Q] Playboy: When you were how old?

[A] Robbins: Ah, 13. I would buy these old Playboys from this used-book shop, so I probably learned more about sex from Playboy than from my parents.

[Q] Playboy: Did they approve of this, or was this something you kept hidden?

[A] Robbins: I would hide them.

[Q] Playboy: Ever get caught?

[A] Robbins: Looking back, I can't say my parents didn't know they were there. I kept them under my mattress, and I'm sure when they were changing the sheets they must have seen them. But they didn't say anything. They wouldn't make it an issue.

[Q] Playboy: How old were you when you lost your virginity?

[A] Robbins: Seventeen. Which, according to Playboy, is very late.

[Q] Playboy: Particularly for someone working in the theater.

[A] Robbins: That's true. I had girlfriends, but it was really difficult to find a place to do it. My parents never went away, not for a weekend, not even for a day. The theater was the only place. I can remember maybe two opportunities that I had in this little quasi-bedroom at the theater, but nothing ever happened.

[Q] Playboy: So it happened in college?

[A] Robbins: Yeah, I was 17.

[Q] Playboy: Was it a big deal? Were you a sex-obsessed teenager?

[A] Robbins: I wouldn't say obsessed, no.

[Q] Playboy: Were you a horny guy?

[A] Robbins: All guys are horny, aren't they?

[Q] Playboy: So it was a big deal?

[A] Robbins: To lose my virginity? Absolutely. It was a rite of passage.

[Q] Playboy: Is it a good story?

[A] Robbins: No. [Laughs]

[Q] Playboy: OK.

[A] Robbins: I'd like to say it is, but it isn't.

[Q] Playboy: How did you wind up at the State University of New York at Plattsburgh?

[A] Robbins: It was a state university far away from New York City and it had the only theater department of all the state universities that I applied to that sent me any literature. My options were limited. We didn't have much money.

[Q] Playboy: What was Plattsburgh like?

[A] Robbins: It was like a two-year party, a chance to just let loose and have a good time. I got involved in theater productions immediately. Had a great time.

[Q] Playboy: Why did you leave after your second year?

[A] Robbins: Because after about a year and a half I realized that the partying was not going to get me anywhere. And the theater department there wasn't so great. I left after two years and went out to Los Angeles to establish residency so I could afford to go to college at UCLA. I applied and was eventually accepted. I worked in a warehouse for a year and earned money to put myself through college.

[Q] Playboy: You also delivered pizzas in Beverly Hills and waited tables at the Hillcrest Country Club. What were those jobs like?

[A] Robbins: The pizza job was great because the tips were really good--you could make $100 to $150 a night.

[Q] Playboy: And Hillcrest?

[A] Robbins: Hillcrest--that was a rough crowd. [Laughs] It wasn't a great job.

[Q] Playboy: Why not?

[A] Robbins: It was a salaried job, so tipping wasn't allowed. It wasn't like a real waiter job; you couldn't make the same kind of money. It was steady work and it was a pretty good check every week, but after a while it got to be a real drag.

[Q] Playboy: Did you ever serve anybody you later worked with?

[A] Robbins: No, no. I served George Burns and Steve Lawrence and Eydie Gorme. I think I also served Joey Bishop.

[Q] Playboy: What kind of theater were you doing?

[A] Robbins: By that time I was doing Equity Waiver Theater in Los Angeles with the Actors' Gang. We had done our first show, Ubu the King. It was kind of a surreal life, you know, to wait tables at this stuffy country club, then head off to the theater by midnight to perform an early French surrealist classic in a real anarchic style.

Same thing when I started acting in episodic television. In order to survive I had to continue my other jobs. So it was a very strange period: going to the set of a movie or TV show, then calling from the set and telling the pizza place that I couldn't be there on time. You know? And then hoping I wouldn't get fired.

[Q] Playboy: What was the guiding philosophy of the Actors' Gang?

[A] Robbins: There wasn't really a guiding philosophy, other than the idea that we wanted to bring to the stage a certain amount of energy and anarchy. In the beginning, it was a male-oriented group; all of us were athletes and we wanted to bring that kind of athletic ethic to the stage--go out and sweat and work hard and do lots of physical comedy.

[Q] Playboy: Doing theater in L.A. has been compared to doing mime for the blind.

[A] Robbins: Oh, that's not fair.

[Q] Playboy: But L.A. is a notoriously unsupportive atmosphere for theater.

[A] Robbins: I disagree completely.

[Q] Playboy: Why?

[A] Robbins: In fact, I would say that New York is not conducive to theater. New York does not encourage its young. It does not encourage experimentation. Consequently, anything that's new or innovative comes from outside New York. Regional theater is where it's at.

Look at Angels in America, for example. That play started outside of New York and was given support by regional critics. Then it came to New York, and New York got credit for a Pulitzer Prize-winning play. It's not true at all. If that play had opened off-Broadway in New York, it would have been destroyed. It's high-stakes poker in New York, a masochistic venture, I think, for a playwright. We have, what, two legitimate plays on Broadway right now? We're not doing theater for any kind of working class. We're not doing theater for people who live in the city. We're doing theater for tourists and people from Connecticut.

What L.A. offered was a long process of nurturing and support from its major news outlets. The Los Angeles Times came to see our first play; we got a bad review, so I called the paper and asked another reviewer to come down. That time we got a rave. Now, that's simply not possible in New York. We were allowed to grow and learn because of that kind of support. I would also venture to say that the audiences in Los Angeles are more adventurous.

[Q] Playboy: After all the work you had done in theater, what was it like to begin working in television?

[A] Robbins: It was exciting. Interesting. A different kind of acting. It was great training for the movies because in television you don't have many takes, three at the most and you're out of there. So you had to have a certain amount of self-discipline if you wanted to come off with a good performance.

[Q] Playboy: How much did your looks affect the kinds of things that you were being offered?

[A] Robbins: Well, I was not going to get any little-guy roles. [Laughs] You know, I've been lucky in that regard. My looks haven't put me into one category. I don't look like a blue blood. I don't look like a criminal. I don't look like anything.

[Q] Playboy: Come on. What do you look like?

[A] Robbins: Uh, some guy. Some tall guy.

[Q] Playboy: Three adjectives often used to describe you are: baby-faced, gangly and shaggy. Agree?

[A] Robbins: Shaggy I agree with. I'm not gangly; I'm very coordinated. When I think of the word gangly, I think of someone who's not comfortable with his body. I've played characters like that, but that's not who I am. And baby-faced? Well, yeah, I do have a bit of a baby face. But I guess that just means I'll be working longer.

[Q] Playboy: What was your first film experience like?

[A] Robbins: It was in a film called Toy Soldiers. It's not much of a movie. The thing I remember most about it is coming back from lunch with Jason Miller one day and seeing the director deck the producer. It was my introduction to film. And here's what was interesting: Right after the producer went down from the punch, the director reached down, pulled him up and said, "I'm sorry. I had to do that."

[Q] Playboy: You've said that in the beginning you were in movies and TV for the money you needed to support the Actors' Gang. Did you have to keep reminding yourself about that when you agreed to make Fraternity Vacation?

[A] Robbins: Yes, I did. I certainly didn't think I was doing art by any stretch of the imagination. It was my first lead in a movie, and how can you turn that down when you're delivering pizzas?

[Q] Playboy: When they talk about the expensive bombs of the Eighties, they usually list Heaven's Gate, Ishtar and Howard the Duck.

[A] Robbins: I'm very proud to be in one of the top three. [Laughs]

[Q] Playboy: What did Howard the Duck feel like while you were making it?

[A] Robbins: It felt like a big mistake from the start. But again, I wasn't in a position to turn it down.

[Q] Playboy: Obviously. It was a big part in a highly visible film. When you were cast, did it feel like your big break?

[A] Robbins: Yeah. It felt like it was going to be a big break--until I got to the set and saw the duck. And I saw the direction they were going with the duck. At that point I knew we were in trouble. I had read the comic books and had a different perception of what that character was. The movie went for cute and adorable, and it should have gone for offensive and gruff.

[Q] Playboy: When you saw the finished film, was it worse than you thought it would be?

[A] Robbins: I was at Universal Studios, sitting in a screening room that was frigidly air-conditioned, and sweat was still rising on my neck. It was... it was... it was one of those hard screenings to watch. It was just a huge reminder of six months of hell.

[Q] Playboy: You once said that, early on, you didn't have a huge appetite for success. Why not?

[A] Robbins: I was talking about the years before Bull Durham, when it was just as important for me to do theater as have success in the movie business.

[Q] Playboy: Did you do anything special for your Bull Durham audition?

[A] Robbins: I had to pitch. I had to show Ron [Shelton] that I could throw the ball, that I had some kind of pitching form. He didn't want to have to fake that.

[Q] Playboy: How is your pitching motion?

[A] Robbins: It's pretty good. I played third base for a long time, so I had a pretty good arm. What I discovered when I got down to North Carolina is that power pitching is really all in the legs, which I never realized before. It's all in the push off the mound.

[Q] Playboy: Once you started pitching for the movie, did you have any delusions that you could do it for real?

[A] Robbins: No, because I didn't have the control. That was real. Nuke's lack of control was real.

[Q] Playboy: When you were making Bull Durham, did you have any sense that it would be such a runaway hit?

[A] Robbins: No sense at all. All I knew is that we had a great time doing it, that everyone liked one another, that it was a blast to make. And it was a dream to be able to do a movie in which, between takes, you got to throw the ball around.

[Q] Playboy: After that movie came out, was there an effort to typecast you as Nuke?

[A] Robbins: Absolutely. Countless scripts with doltish guys.

[Q] Playboy: So how did you choose your next few movies? For example, what attracted you to Miss Firecracker?

[A] Robbins: A role of a man with passion and intelligence and poetry in his soul. Very different from Nuke. I liked the script. I was happy with the performance, too.

[Q] Playboy:Cadillac Man?

[A] Robbins: Primarily the possibility of working with Robin Williams. And I'm really glad I did that film because Robin has become a good friend. Above all, that remains the most important thing about that film.

[Q] Playboy:Erik the Viking?

[A] Robbins: To work with [director] Terry Jones. I'd been a huge Monty Python fan, and I wanted to be a part of that kind of madness. I'm not sure why that movie doesn't work. I discovered that there's a different sensibility of comedy between the English and Americans. I think that may have been what kept it from going further.

[Q] Playboy:Jacob's Ladder?

[A] Robbins: It was an amazing script. My first real dramatic lead. And what a journey for the character. What a challenge to play some of those situations.

[Q] Playboy: Is that what selecting movie roles is all about for you: the challenge?

[A] Robbins: What I've tried to do throughout my career is play different kinds of people from movie to movie. This has been very beneficial in the long run because now I'm offered different kinds of roles. That's a great position to be in as an actor. The downside is that audiences can't get a grasp of who you are, so you're not as bankable as someone who tends to play the same role over and over.

[Q] Playboy: How did you define success when you were starting out?

[A] Robbins: I thought it would be a great way to earn a living while I worked in the theater.

[Q] Playboy: How do you define it now?

[A] Robbins: It means freedom to choose what I want to do. It means being able to take five months off and work on a play or a screenplay or hang out with my family. It means getting good Knicks tickets.

[Q] Playboy: When do you most feel like a movie star?

[A] Robbins: [Laughs] Well, recently it was when I was able to get into the victory party the night the Rangers won the Stanley Cup. I've been a Ranger fan since I was a little kid, and I used to sit up in the blue seats and watch these teams that were great and some that were not so great. But it was a long time coming, this victory.

After we won it, a friend and I got into a cab, and the driver knew where the party was. Took us right there. Police barricades, cops all over the place. And I have to say, I don't do this very often, but I shamelessly used any celebrity I had to get past those barricades. And it was such a great party. To see [Mark] Messier walk in with the Stanley Cup, and to drink from the Stanley Cup--

[Q] Playboy: You got to drink from it?

[A] Robbins: Yeah. I was in heaven. And at 6:30 in the morning, everyone was still drinking and there were bagpipes--Scottish dress, full bagpipes playing as the sun was coming up. It was pretty magical.

[Q] Playboy: What parts of moviemaking do you like the most and the least?

[A] Robbins: There are times when you're in a performance and you get in a zone: The lines are flowing perfectly off your tongue, you're completely there as the character and, if something unexpected happens, you roll right with it--you aren't phased at all. You discover a moment that is true magic, a moment that wasn't scripted, that wasn't prepared or planned.

What I like least: not seeing my kids.

[Q] Playboy: Let's talk about them. Has having kids changed your life?

[A] Robbins: Profoundly. I have different priorities. I realize what's important in life. Kids put things into perspective.

[Q] Playboy: In what sense?

[A] Robbins: Well, you have a hard day at work, but it doesn't mean a thing when you're home. It just disappears, because you find out soon enough that you can't bring the baggage of your life and its pressures into their lives. And you go to sleep a lot earlier. I now take better care of myself. And I haven't been to a bar in a long time.

[Q] Playboy: You have a weekend house in Westchester County, somewhat uncharacteristic for a city boy. What was the attraction?

[A] Robbins: I'd never lived in the country, and now that I've earned enough money to do something with it, Susan and I decided we wanted a place where we could take the kids, a place where they could run around on the grass, experience a little nature. That's one thing I was never able to experience as a child. For me, trees grew out of the pavement.

I like the area we're in in Westchester. We have neighbors with kids around the same age as ours, and all the kids can go out and ride their bikes. I like it that they have that opportunity.

[Q] Playboy: So why not live there full-time?

[A] Robbins: Because I wouldn't want to live outside of New York City. I actually think New York is a good place to bring up children.

[Q] Playboy: Why?

[A] Robbins: Because it's honest. It's a real democracy at work: people from all economic strata intermingling, all kinds of languages being spoken everywhere. For me, it's a good way to introduce children to what life is really about. One tends to become sheltered in upper-income communities in the suburbs and in the country, and I don't think those children are as ready for life and the surprises it holds as kids who grow up in the city.

[Q] Playboy: What parts of fatherhood didn't you anticipate?

[A] Robbins: Sleep deprivation.

[Q] Playboy: What part is exactly what you thought it would be?

[A] Robbins: None of it. I had no idea that it would be as thrilling as it is.

[Q] Playboy: What's your favorite part?

[A] Robbins: Playing with toys again.

[Q] Playboy: And what is your least favorite part?

[A] Robbins: Not being able to protect my children from disappointment and heartbreak.

[Q] Playboy: Do you feel a difference between fatherhood and stepfatherhood?

[A] Robbins: Not much, no.

[Q] Playboy: What are the drawbacks of raising kids in the city when you and your mate are famous?

[A] Robbins: Being out with your kids and someone wants your autograph, and you just want to be with your kids.

[Q] Playboy: How do you handle it?

[A] Robbins: We ask the kids if it's OK with them if we sign an autograph.

[Q] Playboy: And what do they say?

[A] Robbins: Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If they say no, we explain to the person that our son or our daughter would prefer that we not do it right now--that we're with them.

[Q] Playboy: How much of a sense do your kids have of what you do?

[A] Robbins: I think the older kids know exactly what we do. The baby probably has an idea that, from time to time, we live in trailers during the day. [Laughs]

[Q] Playboy: So, overall, what kind of father are you?

[A] Robbins: That's not for me to say.

[Q] Playboy: Are you strict? Are you soft? Are you the disciplinarian?

[A] Robbins: I would rather not get into it. I'd rather not get behind the door of my house.

[Q] Playboy: We understand, but we're going to keep knocking on that door. It's our job.

[A] Robbins: Well, you can knock as much as you like. [Laughs]

[Q] Playboy: What do you think of most celebrity journalism?

[A] Robbins: I like interviews like this one in Playboy, where it's really just the words. I tend to read those more. They're really just about what the person has to say, rather than the interpretation of the person writing the profile. I have certainly run into both types. Some people are pretty accurate with what you say, but there are other journalists who'd be a lot happier if you treated them like your father confessor and opened up in that Barbara Walters way.

You know, people decry sexuality on TV, but they're making shows like Hard Copy--I don't even want to mention the name of that show, you can cut that out--but people are making these tabloid news shows that are spreading rumors and are so disrespectful of people's privacy. And people love it. People love that stuff.

[Q] Playboy: Why?

[A] Robbins: Because it's human nature. They want to know who's fucking who, and they just love a good tawdry story, whether it's true or not. Forget the people's reputations. Forget their feelings. If it's a good rumor and it makes good copy, it becomes news.

[Q] Playboy: Why are you so guarded about your personal life, especially about your relationship with Susan?

[A] Robbins: I think the love between two people is a sacred and private thing. It cheapens it to talk about it in front of millions of people. It's unnecessary. When other people do it, I suppose that I have a morbid fascination with it, but mostly I'm just embarrassed for them.

[Q] Playboy: But the interest in you derives both from your visibility and popularity and from the fact that you happen to live with a woman whom, frankly, millions of men lust for.

[A] Robbins: You left out the part about the hundreds of thousands of women lusting for me. [Laughs]

[Q] Playboy: That too.

[A] Robbins: Well, I don't know that that's true, and I never--it never enters my thinking.

[Q] Playboy: Do you at least understand the curiosity?

[A] Robbins: Sure, I understand the curiosity. But that doesn't mean that I have to buy into it.

[Q] Playboy: What is hardest about balancing two careers and a relationship?

[A] Robbins: Finding the time to go out to dinner.

[Q] Playboy: You know, on several occasions Playboy has asked Susan to pose for the magazine. What would you think about that?

[A] Robbins: What would I think about Susan posing nude?

[Q] Playboy: Yes.

[A] Robbins: If it was something that was going to make her happy, I don't think I would care.

[Q] Playboy: What do you remember most about first meeting her?

[A] Robbins: I guess I met her at the audition for Bull Durham. I remember thinking that she was beautiful and smart.

[Q] Playboy: Had you thought of her as a sex symbol prior to that?

[A] Robbins: No. I thought of her as a really good actress.

[Q] Playboy: Have you ever had a relationship this serious or long-lasting?

[A] Robbins: No.

[Q] Playboy: What's the difference between the dynamic with an older woman and one with someone your own age or younger?

[A] Robbins: I don't think about it in those terms. I wouldn't generalize like that.

[Q] Playboy: How about in terms of your own experience?

[A] Robbins: Age hasn't been a factor.

[Q] Playboy: Really?

[A] Robbins: No. Each person is who they are. I've met young women who are old; I've met older women who are young.

[Q] Playboy: Where does Susan fall in that spectrum?

[A] Robbins: It's none of your business.

[Q] Playboy: In her Playboy Interview, Susan said that younger men have an easier time dealing with strong women because they've been brought up in an age of feminism, where there are more strong women. Do you think that's true?

[A] Robbins: No. I think that is a broad generalization.

[Q] Playboy: When Vice President Dan Quayle blamed Murphy Brown for the riots in Los Angeles, he made some remarks about the fabric of family life coming apart because of the number of children born out of wedlock. You've discussed what you think of those statements, but did you take it personally, based on the fact that you and Susan aren't married and have kids?

[A] Robbins: Not at all. I don't take anything any politician says personally. Especially idiotic ones.

[Q] Playboy: What's the longest relationship you've had prior to this one?

[A] Robbins: Seven months.

[Q] Playboy: Ever come close to getting married before?

[A] Robbins: No.

[Q] Playboy: Why?

[A] Robbins: The person didn't fascinate me enough.

[Q] Playboy: Here's one who does and yet you're still not married.

[A] Robbins: We are married for all intents and purposes. We have two kids together. We've been together for seven years. I'd say that's married.

[Q] Playboy: Why are people so fascinated by the fact that you are not legally, technically married?

[A] Robbins: I don't know. I really don't know.

[Q] Playboy: Perhaps it's the implication that there's always an out--that you can just leave without having to go through the legal hassles of a divorce.

[A] Robbins: That's not true.

[Q] Playboy: Why?

[A] Robbins: Because you can still be sued by your mate.

[Q] Playboy: Yet you haven't taken the legal step. Is there a particular reason?

[A] Robbins: No.

[Q] Playboy: What do you think of the institution of marriage in general?

[A] Robbins: Whatever gets you through the night.

[Q] Playboy: Are you always this evasive?

[A] Robbins: You're knocking on my door. [Laughs]

[Q] Playboy: That's right. But we're also at the point where we feel compelled to ask: What is it like to get into bed with Susan Sarandon every night?

[A] Robbins: [Pauses] Aren't you embarrassed to ask that question?

[Q] Playboy: It's the question that almost any man would want to ask.

[A] Robbins: But would you ask that question of a stranger on a bus or a train? You would--

[Q] Playboy: But you're not a stranger. You're a celebrity--

[A] Robbins: You would get punched out, man.

[Q] Playboy: That's probably true.

[A] Robbins: So why do I have to have this sense of civility?

[Q] Playboy: Certainly you must be aware that men think this way.

[A] Robbins: No. Actually I wasn't until you just said it.

[Q] Playboy: Come on. Now you're being disingenuous. We don't really expect you to answer the question, but you can't say you don't understand the curiosity of the average man, the guy who thinks, Geez, he gets to go to bed every night with Susan Sarandon. How do you feel about that?

[A] Robbins: I don't feel anything about that. That's an artificial reality.

[Q] Playboy: OK.

[A] Robbins: And if you think I'm going to waste my time thinking about what other people are thinking, you've got to be crazy. That way lies madness.

If you're a magician, you don't want the audience looking certain places. So you divert their attention.

When I did "The Shawshank Redemption," every guard I talked with had this opinion: Legalize marijuana.

It's human nature. They want to know who's fucking who, and they just love a good tawdry story, whether it's true or not.

Forget the people's reputations. Forget their feelings. If it's a good rumor and it makes good copy, it becomes news.