Faye Takes the Stand

[Q] Bugliosi: Faye, before we get into Nicole and your friendship with her, tell us how and when you met her.

[A] Resnick: In the spring of 1990 Kris Kardashian was staying with me while she was in the middle of her divorce from Robert Kardashian. And one day she asked if I would like to meet a woman she felt would be a great friend to me, because we had a lot in common. So she took me to Rockingham to meet Nicole. And that's when she was married to O.J. Simpson.

[Q] Bugliosi: You eventually got to know Nicole very well. So many things have been written and said about Nicole, several contradictory. How would you describe her?

[A] Resnick: Well, I can see how people get the impression she is an enigma because there were so many facets to Nicole. She was multidimensional. She was a great friend, a wonderful mother, yet at the same time she was very liberal in her thinking. She was very close to her family. She was so conventional in many ways and, on the other hand, she wanted to enjoy her life. O.J. and his defense team put a pejorative spin on that.

[Q] Bugliosi: What adjectives would describe Nicole?

[A] Resnick: Oh my God, she was sweet, she was wonderful, she was caring and compassionate. She was sincere. She wasn't the typical celebrity who had lost the ability to want to make a change in the world.

[Q] Bugliosi: What was the average day like in the life of Nicole when you got to know her pretty well?

[A] Resnick: She would wake up very early every morning, and I would typically get a phone call from her. She would get her children ready for school, she'd pack their lunches and make their breakfasts, take them to school and then afterward, after her run, we would meet for coffee. She would run between five and nine miles every day. And after that, because she was playing the role of mother and father--O.J. was out of town most of the time--she was doing it all. She would take the kids to karate class, she would take them to ballet or jazz. She would spend time doing their homework with them. She would read to her children at night for hours, bedtime stories, and she would put them to sleep. And something I think a lot of people don't know about Nicole is that she was very proud of the ethnicity of her children. She was born in Germany and wanted very much to have Sydney and Justin speak German, to understand both sides of themselves, so she read them bedtime stories in German. She also wanted them to know as much about their black culture as possible, and to be proud of it.

[Q] Bugliosi: So you would rate Nicole very highly as a mother?

[A] Resnick: She would receive the highest rating as a mother.

[Q] Bugliosi: As you may know, I no longer call O.J. Simpson what most people still call him--O.J. To me, someone who does what he did to Nicole and to Ron Goldman forfeits the right to any endearing nickname, so I'm going to be calling him Simpson or O.J. Simpson during this interview. Is that OK?

[A] Resnick: Yes, of course.

[Q] Bugliosi: You've described Nicole as being a wonderful mother. What kind of wife was she to O.J. Simpson?

[A] Resnick: I didn't really know them when they were married. I knew them when they were trying to reconcile. She tried in every way to balance motherhood with her relationship with him. She felt that they were equal responsibilities. She was respectful, unless she was pushed to the limit.

[Q] Bugliosi: To your knowledge, during her marriage to Simpson was she always faithful to him?

[A] Resnick: Absolutely, to my knowledge. I know nothing to the contrary.

[Q] Bugliosi: Did she ever talk with you about that?

[A] Resnick: Yes. She said she took her vows seriously, that she would never do anything to ruin her relationship.

[Q] Bugliosi: When did you become a close friend of Nicole's?

[A] Resnick: July 4, 1992.

[Q] Bugliosi: Why do you remember that particular date?

[A] Resnick: Because it was at the Jenners' house in Malibu when we were having a Fourth of July party. Nicole and I became immediate friends that day. That was after she had filed for divorce. We became great friends from that day.

[Q] Bugliosi: She was no longer living with Simpson at that time?

[A] Resnick: No, she wasn't.

[Q] Bugliosi: Where was she living?

[A] Resnick: At the time, on Gretna Green in Brentwood.

[Q] Bugliosi: That was pretty close to the Bundy address, right?

[A] Resnick: It was blocks away, very close.

[Q] Bugliosi: What would the two of you typically do when you were together?

[A] Resnick: Well, we were both mothers, so we would go grocery shopping together. When we were redoing our homes, we would help each other pick out furnishings and accessories for them. And we would shop together for shoes for our kids. We would plan our holidays together and take our children to the movies. We would go to swap meets. We would, at times, go out and enjoy ourselves, go dancing--which I'm very proud of and which is something we have been attacked for doing. When the big earthquake happened we took our kids down to Laguna Beach and stayed together until the disaster was over. During the riots in Los Angeles we took our children to Mexico until the riots ended.

[Q] Bugliosi: Would you see her or talk with her almost every day?

[A] Resnick: Oh, every day. I used to talk with her sometimes four times a day.

[Q] Bugliosi: Tell us about some of the more memorable times you spent with Nicole and Simpson socially. I'm referring to the trips to Mexico and things like that.

[A] Resnick: Well, the first time I really spent a lot of time with them together is when Nicole and I planned a trip to Cabo San Lucas.

[Q] Bugliosi: When was that?

[A] Resnick: That was in May 1993. My exhusband has a villa in Cabo San Lucas. I asked Nicole if she and the children would like to come to join us. And they did, and that's when Nicole and O.J. started talking about a reconciliation. He decided to come, which he did, for five days. It was Mother's Day and it was lovely. They were trying to put it back together. It was a real nice time. Of course, they had some difficulties, as people do when they're trying to reconcile.

[Q] Bugliosi: Was that the only time you spent together in Mexico?

[A] Resnick: No, there were other times. Another time in Cabo San Lucas was Easter of 1994. That's when the Jenners and all of us went down and had a big Easter-egg hunt. It was family and wonderful. At times it was just great--when O.J. and Nic were doing well.

[Q] Bugliosi: Were there other places you went with Nicole and Simpson?

[A] Resnick: To New York in 1993 for the opening of the Harley-Davidson Café. O.J. wanted Nicole and me to come in and be with him for that and we did.

[Q] Bugliosi: Was he associated with the café?

[A] Resnick: One of his best friends, Mark Packer, was one of the owners.

[Q] Bugliosi: People want to know what financial background you had that enabled you to move and socialize in Nicole's and Simpson's wealthy circles of friends.

[A] Resnick: I've been a wealthy woman for most of my adult life. I was married to a very wonderful, successful businessman, Paul Resnick.

[Q] Bugliosi: When were you married to him?

[A] Resnick: From 1985 until 1991, I was with Paul. Here in Beverly Hills.

[Q] Bugliosi: And you had a big, beautiful home?

[A] Resnick: Yes. It was similar to Simpson's Rockingham estate.

[Q] Bugliosi: I read somewhere that you renovated the home to the tune of a million dollars.

[A] Resnick: Yes. We put $1.3 million into our home. And it was quite spectacular. It was Michael Eisner's old home.

[Q] Bugliosi: Was your divorce from Paul amicable?

[A] Resnick: Yes. He is a wonderful father and a man full of integrity.

[Q] Bugliosi: When you divorced Paul in 1991, was there a financial settlement between the two of you?

[A] Resnick: Yes, there was. I received $500,000 in cash and additional property totaling close to $200,000.

[Q] Bugliosi: So at least during your adult life, you've always been a person of, shall we say, easy circumstances?

[A] Resnick: Yes.

[Q] Bugliosi: Going back to O.J. Simpson, Faye, how would you describe him?

[A] Resnick: This man, if you want to call him a man, is very charismatic and very winning. I wouldn't call him very intelligent. I would call him very street-smart. He was jovial and used to make you feel like the most important person around, whether you were a plumber or a movie star.

[Q] Bugliosi: So he wasn't arrogant?

[A] Resnick: No, he wasn't exactly arrogant. He was omnipotent. It's strange because he is a dichotomy. He has two very strong personalities. One is very winning, very charming, very lovely. And the other is narcissistic and megalomaniacal. He felt he should receive all the attention.

[Q] Bugliosi: Did you find him to be a person who would take liberties with the truth?

[A] Resnick: Oh yes. The truth is what he created in his own mind. In fact, I asked him once, "O.J., how have you been able to get away with all of the drug abuse and womanizing and everything? How have you been able to hide it, being in the public eye?"

And he said, "Well, Faye, I learned very early in life: Deny, deny, deny. You give 'em a good enough story and say it long enough, and finally they begin to believe it."

[Q] Bugliosi: Was he able to charm people?

[A] Resnick: I'd say O.J. could sell anything. He could sell you a glass of sand in the desert, that's how successful he was at being charming.

[Q] Bugliosi: But he was totally absorbed with himself?

[A] Resnick: Oh, extremely narcissistic. It was all about O.J. Unless he was trying to charm you.

[Q] Bugliosi: What type of father was he to Justin and Sydney?

[A] Resnick: One of the saddest aspects of this is that he wasn't, in my opinion, a great father nor did he even try to be. Nicole used to always say, "Take Justin out and play some football with him. Take him to the park." Or, "Take him golfing with you," or "Take him golfing with you," or whatever. But it wasn't something he really had in him to do. He just didn't really have that father mentality.

[Q] Bugliosi: Let's get into a description of the relationship between Nicole and Simpson. Clearly, it was tempestuous, but how would you describe it?

[A] Resnick: Because it was so good when it was good and because it was so bad when it was bad, it was the height of dysfunction as far as I was concerned. You never knew when it was going to be great and you never knew when it was going to be tragic. And when I say tragic, they would go from them just loving each other to the point where it was sickening to watch--I mean, truly--to the next day, or even half an hour later, where you wanted to crawl under the table. I just wanted to disappear because it was so frightening. It would change from one minute to the next.

[Q] Bugliosi: Like Kansas weather.

[A] Resnick: Yes. I remember saying to Nicole one time, "I cannot make commitments to be with the two of you anymore." It got so bad at times that you would never know what was going to happen.

[Q] Bugliosi: There was a tremendous amount of passion on both sides?

[A] Resnick: There was so much passion that it was unbelievable.

[Q] Bugliosi: Did Nicole ever tell you whether or not she felt Simpson truly loved her?

[A] Resnick: She said that he was obsessed with her. There was a day of revelation for Nicole, and it was in Cabo San Lucas, during that last trip, in April 1994. It was actually the same day she told me about all the abuse. And she said, "I have finally realized that he doesn't love me. He's just obsessed with me." But up until that time she thought it was a love relationship.

[Q] Bugliosi: Approximately when did you first learn of Simpson's physical and psychological abuse of Nicole?

[A] Resnick: In 1993 we were at Toscana, a restaurant in Brentwood. We were discussing whether or not she would ever have any more children. She explained why she would never have another child with O.J. She said she was kicked and punched and harmed by Simpson during the time she was pregnant with Justin. Not only did he physically abuse her, he also mentally abused her. She said he used to womanize intensely when she was pregnant.

[Q] Bugliosi: So she first told you about this at this restaurant?

[A] Resnick: Yes. But she limited what she told me to the beatings he had given her while she was pregnant. I didn't learn about all the other beatings until she told me about them in April 1994 in Mexico.

[Q] Bugliosi: We all know about the 1989 beating when she called the police and said he was going to kill her. He ended up pleading nolo contendere to that. Tell us about some of the beatings of Nicole by Simpson that Nicole told you about but that did not come out at the criminal trial.

[A] Resnick: Oh my God, there were so many.

[Q] Bugliosi: Tell us about some of them.

[A] Resnick: She told me one evening in Mexico in April 1994 about the full extent of the abuse. She needed to sit me down and finally go through it all. And it was horrific, to say the least. There was one instance when he had locked her in a closet.

[Q] Bugliosi: Approximately when was this?

[A] Resnick: She didn't go through years, but it was definitely while she was married to him. He was going with Tawny Kitaen at the time. It had to be in May right before one of her birthdays. Nicole had found a pair of diamond earrings in his drawer and thought they were going to be hers for her birthday. She put the earrings back in the drawer because she didn't want him to know that she'd seen them. Anyway, her birthday came around and she didn't receive the diamond earrings. They were missing from his drawer. So she confronted him with "Where are those earrings?" She found out that he had given them to Tawny Kitaen. Tawny was wearing them around town, bragging about O.J. giving them to her. Nicole couldn't turn a blind eye to it. She asked him what he was doing, why he was throwing this in her face, why he was being so frivolous about it and flaunting it. And he beat her viciously. I believe that was the night he locked her in a closet after beating her. He threw her in that closet and he would come back every 15 minutes--he was watching a game of some type on TV. He beat her again. And she would think he was coming back to let her out. But he'd beat her again. It happened for hours. Nicole could barely walk afterward. That was the night, she told me, she thought he was going to beat her to death. Another time she was beaten by him with a corked wine bottle.

[Q] Bugliosi: When and where was this?

[A] Resnick: Again, I don't know exactly when, but it was during their marriage and at their Rockingham home--downstairs in the bar. I don't know the circumstances that led up to it, but knowing O.J. it could have been anything. She said that he beat her one time because the towels were not lined up geometrically. But this particular time he took a wine bottle and beat her, bruising her ribs. She couldn't walk; she went to the hospital. And the doctor said, "This looks like you've been beaten by your husband." And she denied it. She told the doctor, "No, I fell off a bicycle." O.J. told her to say that.

Those are just a couple of incidents.

[Q] Bugliosi: Were there many other times she told you he beat her?

[A] Resnick: Many other times. She said there were too many to count.

[Q] Bugliosi: What were the beatings usually over?

[A] Resnick: Typically, over when she would accuse him of being with another woman. That was unacceptable to O.J., it was none of her business so far as he was concerned.

[Q] Bugliosi: You indicated earlier that he beat her when she was pregnant. He didn't like it when she became heavy during her pregnancies?

[A] Resnick: Yes, that's correct. He didn't understand that a woman had to gain so much weight. He thought she could just manufacture a child and stay beautiful.

[Q] Bugliosi: So he'd impregnate her and then, when she got heavy because of it, he'd get angry with her?

[A] Resnick: He would get extremely angry with her. He would tell her she was disgusting, she was a fat pig. Nicole experienced so much mental abuse during her pregnancies that it was just devastating for her. She never wanted to have another child with him.

[Q] Bugliosi: Was she aware of his womanizing during their marriage?

[A] Resnick: Absolutely, she was aware of it.

[Q] Bugliosi: And she tolerated it for quite a long time?

[A] Resnick: She did as long as she possibly could. He actually made her believe that it was his right.

[Q] Bugliosi: In essence, for lack of a better term, she was somewhat of an old-fashioned woman.

[A] Resnick: She was very old-fashioned in many ways.

[Q] Bugliosi: Between the time the divorce was final in November 1992 and when they attempted to reconcile in May 1993, what was their relationship like?

[A] Resnick: It was practically nonexistent in the end. When Nicole first filed, O.J. was stalking her and doing everything in his power to get her back. When he realized it wasn't working, he wouldn't even speak to her. She would try to get hold of him to ask him questions about the children and he would communicate with her through his secretary, Cathy Randa. He essentially cut off Nicole as a human being, which I think was the problem. She was so emotionally dependent on this man, so tied in, that his cutting her off made her feel like she was nonexistent. It was probably the biggest reason she had to reconcile with him. This gets into a big area of domestic violence, the cycle of violence, what happens when you've been abused for 17 years and you're so intertwined with this personality that when the relationship ends you no longer know how to function unless you get therapy.

[Q] Bugliosi: Which person initiated the reconciliation?

[A] Resnick: Nicole did.

[Q] Bugliosi: What was the main reason why she wanted to reconcile with Simpson?

[A] Resnick: Actually, there were two reasons. Candace Garvey and Kris Jenner were at a pro-am golf tournament and they ran into O.J. and his girlfriend Paula Barbieri. O.J. said to Candace and Kris that he finally realized what he had done to his marriage, that he was now a monogamous man and he would never jeopardize his new relationship by womanizing again. And that he was going to be a different person entirely. Well, Candace told this to Nicole. And Nicole immediately thought, My God, all I ever asked for was for him not to abuse me and not to womanize.

She was in therapy at the time. The counselor made Nicole believe she could control her own destiny, that she could reestablish her relationship with her ex-husband--and she wanted desperately to have her family back together.

[Q] Bugliosi: Was she still in love with Simpson at this point?

[A] Resnick: Yes, she was.

[Q] Bugliosi: Did he immediately agree to the reconciliation?

[A] Resnick: Actually, it took him about half an hour. He said, "No," at first. And she said, "OK."

And she went home, and half an hour later he called her and said, "Yes."

[Q] Bugliosi: Now, as I understand it, the reconciliation ended between the two of them somewhere around May 1994. Between when they first attempted to reconcile, and when they finally ended it, there was about a year.

[A] Resnick: Yes. During that year, Nicole had called off the reconciliation many times. It was like watching a tennis tournament. They would be doing very well and then she would see that he hadn't changed and she would call it off. Then he would send flowers and say, "I swear I love you." And it would be back on. So it was on and off throughout that year.

[Q] Bugliosi: During that period of attempted reconciliation, was Nicole faithful to Simpson?

[A] Resnick: During the time she was sleeping with O.J. she was faithful to O.J. But whenever Nicole would call it off, she felt that it was like filing for divorce, that she was no longer with him. She distinguished that line.

[Q] Bugliosi: As I understand it, somewhere around May 23 or 24, 1994, which was just a few weeks before the murders, Nicole returned to Simpson a bracelet and earrings he had bought her for her 35th birthday on May 19. Did she tell you what she told Simpson when she returned the bracelet and earrings?

[A] Resnick: Yes. She said, "Get out of my life, I cannot be bought. I don't want these things." Actually, she didn't return them, she threw them at him. She had just had it with O.J. She said, "Get out of my life, take your things, I don't want your presents."

[Q] Bugliosi: Did she tell you what finally caused her to end the reconciliation effort?

[A] Resnick: Yes. We had heard he was seeing Paula Barbieri again and Nicole pushed it out of her mind--she really didn't want to believe it. But then when we got to Mexico they were doing great. That night he began to describe his new role in the Frogman series pilot. He went into detail about the filming and what he had learned, about learning the "silent kill." An ex--Navy Seal trained him on all these techniques. Nicole took it seriously. She said, "I believe this man will kill me someday. I've got to get away from him." She just snapped. She realized that she was definitely going to die at his hands.

[Q] Bugliosi: You spoke of techniques. Techniques for killing with a knife, you mean?

[A] Resnick: Yes. And how to do it without the victim making any noise. So in early May, after we got back from Mexico, she told him it was over between the two of them.

[Q] Bugliosi: Among the incriminating things found in Simpson's possession after the low-speed chase--items that the prosecution remarkably did not present at the trial--were a fake goatee and a mustache purchased on May 27, 1994, two weeks prior to the murders and a few days after Nicole gave him back the bracelet and earrings. His attorneys said he bought the disguise to wear for an upcoming trip to Disneyland he was planning with his children Sydney and Justin. You have been with Simpson many times in public. Did you ever see him wearing a disguise or hear of his doing so?

[A] Resnick: Never.

[Q] Bugliosi: Simpson was not the type of person to wear a disguise in public.

[A] Resnick: No, Simpson loved to be seen. To this day Simpson doesn't wear disguises, and he's a double murderer. He never wore a disguise. I've been to Disneyland with the Simpson family. He loved it; he wanted the attention.

[Q] Bugliosi: What would happen if he wasn't recognized?

[A] Resnick: He would let people know he was there by raising his voice. Simpson didn't even want to go to Europe because he wasn't recognized in Europe. Recognition was something that he had worked for all his life.

[Q] Bugliosi: Would you go so far as to say that when Simpson wasn't recognized in public, he would actually become depressed over it?

[A] Resnick: That's true. He would feel he wasn't getting what was due him. He needed the adulation. It was his lifeblood.

[Q] Bugliosi: So you find the notion that he would buy a disguise to go to Disneyland with his children or anywhere else in public completely ludicrous?

[A] Resnick: Absolutely.

[Q] Bugliosi: You're aware that after Simpson's arrest the police also found in Simpson's possession a set of keys to Nicole's condominium at the Bundy address. I understand that Nicole told you about the keys being missing. Could you tell us a little more about that?

[A] Resnick: This was something I kept saying to the prosecution over and over again. "Why don't you bring up the keys?"

[Q] Bugliosi: When did all this happen?

[A] Resnick: It was on, I would say, June 5. About a week before the murders.

[Q] Bugliosi: What did she tell you with respect to the keys?

[A] Resnick: I had moved in temporarily with Nicole at Bundy around June 3 because I was having a lot of problems with my fiancé, Christian Reichardt. Anyway, four or five days later Nicole was going to give me a set of keys, because I was leaving her house. I could no longer stand what was going on between Nicole and O.J. It was scary for me. He was acting crazy because she gave him back the earrings and bracelet. And I asked her to leave the country or to get away from him until he calmed down, and she said she couldn't because of Sydney's dance recital, which was coming up. So I said, "I'm sorry, Nic, I have to go. I have a child; I can't put my child in jeopardy."

So I was leaving and she said, "Well, before you go, why don't I give you a set of keys so you can come back in." And she went into the drawer where they'd been and the keys were gone. She said, "Oh, my God. When O.J. was here visiting the kids, he must have taken the keys. Because they were just here." So we searched the house for the keys, but there were no keys to be found.

[Q] Bugliosi: Were you personally aware of Simpson stalking Nicole? And if so, when and where?

[A] Resnick: Yes, in a couple of instances. I recall one right after we got back from Mexico in May 1994. We were in front of Starbucks after working out that morning. We had gone to have some coffee and Ron Goldman was there with four of his friends. That's when I met Ron. And O.J. came pulling up in his Bentley.

[Q] Bugliosi: So who was sitting at the table there?

[A] Resnick: It wasn't a table, we were on a bench.

[Q] Bugliosi: There was you, Nicole, Ron Goldman....

[A] Resnick: Mike, Doug, some of Ron's friends. And O.J. came walking up and he said, "This is my wife. I just want you to know this is my wife you're talking to. Nicole, I want to talk to you."

So he summoned her over to the car. And she went over and he said, "You can't be with other men."

She said, "It's just coffee. We just got back from working out. I'm not with any men."

And he left. She came back and said, "Let's go, Faye."

When we left, we noticed O.J. was behind us, a couple blocks, following us. That was one experience.

[Q] Bugliosi: Did Simpson ever see Ron and Nicole together on any other occasion?

[A] Resnick: Yes, he used to see them seated next to each other at Starbucks. Because Ron would end his workout at the same time Nicole would end her workout. He always thought that they were having an affair.

[Q] Bugliosi: How do you know that?

[A] Resnick: Because he said it to me. "She's seeing that guy," he said.

[Q] Bugliosi: Briefly describe the relationship between Ron and Nicole.

[A] Resnick: To my knowledge, they were just friends. I know she thought he was quite handsome and he thought she was very beautiful, but as far as I know there was nothing but friendship. I asked her, in fact. And she said she had not seen him romantically.

[Q] Bugliosi: On what other occasions were you aware of Simpson stalking Nicole?

[A] Resnick: She said that she felt she was being watched throughout the reconciliation. One time she actually caught him: She was making a left-hand turn from Lincoln Boulevard into the parking lot of a shoe store, Aaron Brothers or Payless Shoes or something like that. O.J. was behind her, a block behind, or a couple cars behind, whatever. She saw him. And she actually stepped on her brakes so he would know that she saw him. Nicole called me up and said, "He's following me again."

And then he called me and said, "She thinks I'm following her, I'm not following her."

And I said, "O.J., what were you doing in that area? I know what your plans for the day were."

And he said, "Well, you tell her I'm not following, I wasn't following her."

And I said, "But you were. I can't tell her that you weren't."

He would try to script me, tell me what to say to her.

[Q] Bugliosi: Were there any other stalking incidents she told you about?

[A] Resnick: Yes, in fact we called it the bush syndrome, because she said he used to hide in the bushes near the big front window at Bundy and watch what she would do at night. The Keith Zlomsowitch incident--when O.J. was hiding in the bushes watching them--is a good example of that.

[Q] Bugliosi: When was that?

[A] Resnick: This was right after her divorce was finalized. It was 1992.

[Q] Bugliosi: You're aware that Simpson actually admits to looking through the front window and observing Nicole in an act of intimacy with Keith?

[A] Resnick: Yes.

[Q] Bugliosi: You say in your two books, Nicole Brown Simpson: The Private Diary of a Life Interrupted and Shattered: In the Eye of the Storm, that Nicole told you Simpson was going to kill her one day and get away with it because he was O.J. Simpson. How many times did she tell this to you?

[A] Resnick: I really can't tell you how many times. I can tell you there were a lot of times. Approximately five or six.

[Q] Bugliosi: When was the first time that Nicole told you this and what were the circumstances?

[A] Resnick: The first time was in Mexico in early April 1994, when she decided he now had the capability and knew how to kill her.

[Q] Bugliosi: She didn't indicate to you her fear of his killing her earlier than that?

[A] Resnick: She had mentioned to me before that when he had kicked her and punched her, she felt one day he might beat her to death. But the "he's going to kill me and get away with it" quote came in 1994, in Cabo San Lucas. She detailed the entire abuse. She said, "I have to get away from him, I feel he's going to kill me one day. And he's going to get away with it. He's going to charm his way out of it."

[Q] Bugliosi: Who were some of the other women who were part of your and Nicole's inner circle?

[A] Resnick: Kris Jenner--Kris is married to Bruce Jenner, she's Robert Kardashian's ex-wife. Cici Shahian, Robert Kardashian's cousin. Cora Fishman, who was married to Ron Fishman. Robin Greer, who's an actress. And that was it.

[Q] Bugliosi: Did any of them tell you Nicole had told them the same thing, that is, that she was afraid of Simpson killing her someday?

[A] Resnick: Yes. Cici Shahian and Kris Jenner told me Nicole had told them Simpson would kill her one day and get away with it. She also told Robin Greer the same thing.

[Q] Bugliosi: I understand you talked with Simpson over the phone a lot. When did this start?

[A] Resnick: It started after they initially reconciled in May 1993, in Cabo San Lucas. I became their mediator at that time, because neither of them could communicate and they came to me for help. And from that day on I was their mediator.

[Q] Bugliosi: Would he usually call you, or would you call him from time to time?

[A] Resnick: Almost always, he would call me on the phone.

[Q] Bugliosi: What was the usual reason for his calls?

[A] Resnick: To find out what Nicole was doing. To find out what Nicole was thinking, to clear up things whenever they would fight. He'd give me his side, his point of view, get me to explain to her what he really felt, since he couldn't express himself to her properly without upsetting her.

[Q] Bugliosi: Would he ever complain to you about Nicole?

[A] Resnick: All the time.

[Q] Bugliosi: What would he say? What were some of his complaints?

[A] Resnick: That she wasn't there 100 percent for him. That she was more interested in her children than in him. That she didn't drop everything for him. He complained that she wasn't going to enough parties with him. She didn't put him before everything else. She wasn't traveling with him enough.

[Q] Bugliosi: In these conversations with Simpson, did he ever threaten to kill Nicole?

[A] Resnick: Yes.

[Q] Bugliosi: How many times?

[A] Resnick: Three times.

[Q] Bugliosi: When's the first time that he told you this and what were the circumstances?

[A] Resnick: The first time was early May 1994. Nicole had told him that he needed to see a shrink to work out his demons. And he assured her he had. She had talked to him after he got back from the shrink's office and she asked him, "Did you discuss all the abuse in the past?"

And O.J. said, "What does that have to do with anything?"

She said, "It has to do with everything. I'm afraid that someday you'll hurt me, and I feel that you need to have therapy over what happened."

And he said, "It has nothing to do with anything. It happened in the past. It doesn't need to be addressed."

And she said, "O.J., you're obviously not willing to work on anything. I want nothing more to do with you."

[Q] Bugliosi: And after she told him this he called you on the phone?

[A] Resnick: Yes, he did. He called almost immediately.

[Q] Bugliosi: Tell us what he told you.

[A] Resnick: He told me that Nicole had just told him that she didn't want to be with him anymore, that it was over. He was actually mad at me for not telling him beforehand. And I said to him, "O.J., she's afraid of you. You used to beat her. She wanted you to get help for that. You promised her you would address these things and you didn't."

And he said, "It's not about that. I don't beat her anymore. I think it has to do with her seeing somebody else. She must be seeing another man. And if I find out that she's seeing another man, Faye, I promise, I'll kill her." And I said to him, "She's not seeing anybody, I can assure you, she just needs some time." I was very afraid for her at that time and I was trying to ease it over.

And he said, "Well, if I find out she's with another man before August, I'll kill her. I'll kill that bitch."

[Q] Bugliosi: What was the significance of August?

[A] Resnick: It's when he would go to New York every year to start his NFL commentating. He spent essentially four months a year there. There, and traveling on the East Coast.

[Q] Bugliosi: So he told you that if she were seeing someone before August 1994, he would kill her.

[A] Resnick: Yes.

[Q] Bugliosi: He flat-out told you that?

[A] Resnick: He flat-out said so.

[Q] Bugliosi: And then he told you two other times, the same thing, over the phone?

[A] Resnick: Yes. And I said to him: "I just want you to know what you just said."

And he said, "I'll kill her. I'll kill the bitch."

He was adamant. He was enraged.

[Q] Bugliosi: Did you ever urge Nicole to do certain things to reduce the likelihood of Simpson's harming her?

[A] Resnick: Yes, I did.

[Q] Bugliosi: What did you tell her?

[A] Resnick: That she needed to document everything. She needed to go to the police, she needed to go to her psychiatrist, his psychiatrist, they needed to open it up. It needed to be addressed in every way.

[Q] Bugliosi: When you suggested she go to the police, what was her response?

[A] Resnick: She said she didn't want to go to the police because she said the police had never helped her in the past. And that, you know, if they went and questioned O.J., that she was afraid what he might do to her.

[Q] Bugliosi: Earlier you said that just before the murders you told Nicole to leave the country to get away from him until he calmed down. Had you on previous occasions suggested to her that she move away from him?

[A] Resnick: Yes, but she said she didn't want to uproot her children, that her children had been through enough because of their relationship, that she wanted stability for her children. That she felt maybe she could calm him down somehow. It was so bizarre because she knew it was going to happen, yet there was a fine doubt that it would. And she was clinging to that little gleam of doubt. She wasn't taking precautions.

[Q] Bugliosi: I understand that you spoke to Nicole on the telephone the night she was murdered. Where were you at the time?

[A] Resnick: I was in treatment at a recovery center.

[Q] Bugliosi: For cocaine addiction?

[A] Resnick: Yes.

[Q] Bugliosi: And where is that located?

[A] Resnick: In Marina del Rey.

[Q] Bugliosi: What were the circumstances causing you to end up there?

[A] Resnick: Nicole called for intervention when she found out that I had relapsed, and she called my ex-husband Paul and the Jenners and my close friends and they all told me they would like me to go into treatment, so I did.

[Q] Bugliosi: When did you speak with Nicole on the night of the murders?

[A] Resnick: Around nine P.M. Nicole had called me several times during the day, but I was in group therapy. I returned her calls around nine.

[Q] Bugliosi: Tell us what the two of you talked about.

[A] Resnick: I asked her how the dance recital went. She told me it was wonderful, that Sydney had performed beautifully. Nicole was upbeat, in a wonderful mood. I asked her what happened with O.J. that night, because I knew that he was going to be there. She said, indeed, he had been there. He was in a deep, dark mood. I asked her if there had been an exchange between the two of them and she said she had told him, in fact, that he wasn't even welcome in her family anymore, that he should get out of her life 100 percent.

[Q] Bugliosi: Did she tell him anything else?

[A] Resnick: Yes. To leave her alone, leave her family alone, that he was no longer welcome in her family.

[Q] Bugliosi: You've indicated earlier that they broke up and reconciled several times. And the first time it seemed to be final was in early May 1994, a little over a month earlier.

[A] Resnick: Yes.

[Q] Bugliosi: It might be productive to try to distinguish Nicole's breaking up with him in early May 1994 from the day of the murders. Was there a difference?

[A] Resnick: Yes, Nicole got very sick in the middle of May. She had double pneumonia. She was at a weak point because of the illness.

When she had returned from Mexico after the frogman incident, she told him she didn't want to continue with their relationship anymore and she told me he told her he'd kill her if she followed through on this. In any event, Simpson kept trying to get back into Nicole's good graces, and he thought her sickness in mid-May gave him an opportunity. O.J. took advantage of her being sick, he kept trying to weasel his way back in. And she had told me that she didn't have the energy to fight with him during that time.

[Q] Bugliosi: He would bring her soup and things?

[A] Resnick: He was bringing her soup, he was having breakfast brought over. The jewelry situation came up when Nicole was getting better. She had her energy back and she told him: "O.J., look, I can't be bought. I don't want your presents. I want you to leave me alone. You know this relationship is not healthy for either of us. I know we both still love each other, but it's just not ever going to work out." But O.J. still felt he had the ability to be a part of Nicole's life, no matter what she said.

[Q] Bugliosi: So in early May she told him it's over. Also, several days after her birthday, on May 24 or 25, she returned the jewelry, she again said it was over. But he still senses that it's only over with her because she has determined that they're totally incompatible.

[A] Resnick: Right.

[Q] Bugliosi: But he feels that he has a certain control over her because she still loves him. She still belongs to him in a sense.

[A] Resnick: Right.

[Q] Bugliosi: But what about on the night of the murders?

[A] Resnick: The night of the murders, Nicole was out of love with him. She was liberated from him. The feeling was over. It was as if the spell was finally broken. She was actually free of him. She no longer had him in her blood that night. She was able to free herself of any love, any want, any joy, any thought that she was ever going to be with him again. And I kept saying to her, "God, you're in such a wonderful mood."

[Q] Bugliosi: So you sensed something different in Nicole's feelings concerning Simpson that night, as opposed to previous occasions?

[A] Resnick: I felt that there were no feelings anymore.

[Q] Bugliosi: For the first time.

[A] Resnick: For the first time.

[Q] Bugliosi: If you picked up that sense, it's reasonable to infer that Simpson probably also picked up the same sense that night, that he truly and irrevocably had lost his spell over her.

[A] Resnick: Yes. But a most important facet that people don't get is that he always had an in with the family. He could always get to Nic through her family. But when she told him that he wasn't even welcome in her family any longer, he lost all ties to Nic. He lost her, he lost her family, it was over. He knew it, I knew it, she knew it.

[Q] Bugliosi: So you feel that maybe he could have continued to live with the situation so long as she still loved him, but when he sensed she no longer did he could not take it.

[A] Resnick: He couldn't take it.

[Q] Bugliosi: Obviously, his killing her was a result of cumulative events, and I have heard you say that you believe he had been thinking about killing Nicole for some time, but what finally triggered it was that he felt that she no longer loved him.

[A] Resnick: That's exactly correct.

[Q] Bugliosi: When you knew that it was truly over that night between Nicole and Simpson, did your fears about Nicole's safety increase?

[A] Resnick: Yes. I had heard her say so many times before that she didn't want to be with him, but because I always knew she was still in love with him, I never took it seriously. But when she told me that night, I felt, Wow! This is it, it's done. It's over. I got nervous. I got so nervous for her. I said, "Nicole, aren't you nervous at all?"

She said, "Faye, he's leaving for Chicago tonight, it's over, it's over with. I'm free. I can start living my life without the darkness that's been surrounding me for the past year."

[Q] Bugliosi: Most people, myself included, concluded that Simpson murdered Nicole only after the evidence started pointing irresistibly to his guilt. At what point did you know for sure that he had murdered Nicole and Ron Goldman?

[A] Resnick: The second I was told by the therapist that she had been killed, I knew that O.J. had killed her.

[Q] Bugliosi: When did he tell you this?

[A] Resnick: It was the next day, Monday, around ten in the morning. He said that Nicole had been shot. He said they thought it was a drive-by shooting. And I immediately said, "Nicole was killed by O.J. Simpson. He told me he would murder her and he did it." That was what immediately came out of my mouth.

[Q] Bugliosi: You obviously had to be totally devastated by Nicole's death. Can you describe what you went through emotionally at the time?

[A] Resnick: The month and a half that led up to the death of Nicole was more than devastating. It was like watching a train wreck, knowing that the end was coming. When it happened, I just kept screaming. I was just hysterical--they couldn't calm me.

[Q] Bugliosi: Were you also afraid for your own safety?

[A] Resnick: Definitely. I was fearful. Because I knew O.J. knew exactly what I knew. He knew I was there at every moment.

[Q] Bugliosi: When did you finally find out that Nicole had been stabbed to death?

[A] Resnick: I found out that night, Monday night.

[Q] Bugliosi: Going back to Simpson's threatening to kill Nicole to you, I take it you communicated this to the prosecutors in the Simpson case, Marcia Clark and Christopher Darden?

[A] Resnick: Yes, I did.

[Q] Bugliosi: And inasmuch as this would have been highly explosive and incriminating evidence against Simpson, do you know why they didn't call you to the stand to testify to it?

[A] Resnick: I was told originally by my attorney that because I had been in treatment for my past addiction that I would never be able to testify, that the defense would use that against me. Shortly after Nicole's murder the defense started floating rumors that the murders were my fault because of a drug connection. I think the prosecutors didn't want the jury members to even entertain the thought that something like that could have happened.

[Q] Bugliosi: But it came out at the trial anyway--that you had lived with Nicole and had gone into treatment right before the murders because of your drug problem.

[A] Resnick: Right.

[Q] Bugliosi: So the jurors already heard that.

[A] Resnick: Yes, they did.

[Q] Bugliosi: Did you want to testify?

[A] Resnick: I never wanted to, but I felt it was imperative.

[Q] Bugliosi: Well, you wanted to in the sense that you felt it was imperative.

[A] Resnick: Yes.

[Q] Bugliosi: Let's get back to your drug habit. On the last page of Simpson's book, I want to Tell You, he says, "I know in my heart that the answer to the death of Nicole and Mr. Goldman lies somewhere in the world that Faye Resnick inhabited." And in Simpson's criminal trial, his attorneys suggested to the jury that Colombian drug lords ordered your murder because you owed them money for drugs--drugs you were too broke to pay for--and the hired killer or killers mistook poor Nicole for you. I'm not going to ask you to dignify this preposterous allegation with a response, but for those benighted individuals who give even an ounce of credence to this allegation, tell us about the nature and extent of your drug habit.

[A] Resnick: I had relapsed after two years of being drug free. It was two weeks prior to the murder of Nicole. And in those two weeks, I had consumed no more than $30 worth of cocaine a day.

[Q] Bugliosi: A gram of cocaine sells on the street today for approximately $100. So you were using about a third of a gram per day?

[A] Resnick: Well, a quarter to a third.

[Q] Bugliosi: And you were purchasing this from whom?

[A] Resnick: From a friend of mine who is a businessman. By the way, he's an Italian.

[Q] Bugliosi: The laughability of all this is that although drug killings are common in the U.S., the Colombian drug lords have nothing to do with them. They do have a history, of course, of killing anyone in Colombia who opposes them, including, in 1985 in Bogotá, 11 supreme court justices who were about to rule on the constitutionality of an extradition treaty. But according to the Drug Enforcement Agency, the only record of a Colombian drug lord ordering a hit in this country of anyone not associated with the drug lord's enterprise was in 1993 against a Hispanic journalist in New York City. He was an antidrug crusader, and that's the only one. If you were to believe the defense, you were important enough for the Colombian drug lords down in Medellin and Cali to break with their policy and go after a small, private user. I'm being sarcastic, of course.

[A] Resnick: I know.

[Q] Bugliosi: With respect to the defense allegation that you were too broke to pay for your drug habit, around the time of the murders, Faye, approximately how much readily available cash did you have?

[A] Resnick: Around $60,000. And I also had a credit line, my TRW credit report was excellent.

[Q] Bugliosi: So you had all the conceivable money you needed to support a $20- to $30-a-day habit.

[A] Resnick: Of course.

[Q] Bugliosi: Was there ever an occasion around the time of the murders or any previous time when you couldn't pay cash for the cocaine that you were using each day?

[A] Resnick: Never. It was nothing. It was not even so much as a dinner.

[Q] Bugliosi: Simpson's criminal defense attorneys allege that you used to borrow money from your fiancé at the time, Christian Reichardt, to pay for your drugs. What's your response to this?

[A] Resnick: That is an outright lie. In fact, I used to loan Christian money. I did everything to finance his chiropractic office. I even ran his office for him and loaned him money whenever he asked for it. In fact, all of my friends and family would say to me, "It's crazy, you need to stop supporting him."

[Q] Bugliosi: When was the last time you had loaned Christian money, and how much did you loan him?

[A] Resnick: He and his friend came to me about three months before the murders and asked me to lend him $20,000, and I did.

[Q] Bugliosi: Has he ever paid that money back?

[A] Resnick: Not a penny.

[Q] Bugliosi: Are you presently drug free?

[A] Resnick: Yes. Absolutely.

[Q] Bugliosi: And how long have you been drug free?

[A] Resnick: Since three days before Nicole was murdered. Thank God, that is part of my past. I will never do that again.

[Q] Bugliosi: While we're talking about drug use, did you ever personally see Simpson use cocaine?

[A] Resnick: Yes. The first time was at the Harley-Davidson Café in New York in 1993. Right at the table, in front of everyone, he started tooting it. I told him I was uncomfortable with that because it was so out in the open, but he said no one was paying attention. And, as I have said in my deposition, Nicole told me more than once that O.J.'s drug use was substantial, and about his "Christmas tree," a mason jar he kept in his closet upstairs that contained all types of drugs in different-colored capsules. In fact, in certain circles he was known as Snow J.

[Q] Bugliosi: Faye, before we discuss other matters, I want to ask you a question about something that troubles even many of your supporters. What comes across in your books and in everything you have said is that Nicole was your best and closest friend. You loved her dearly and were profoundly wounded by her death. With that in mind, how do you reconcile writing in your first book about the physically intimate night you spent with Nicole? At least among some people, couldn't this only hurt the memory of Nicole?

[A] Resnick: Yes, I do believe it hurt the memory of Nicole. And I'm sorry that that information ever got out. I would never have spoken about it unless I felt I had to, because I felt it was irrelevant, I felt it was nothing that harmed anyone and it need not have been told. But when I was writing my first book in Vermont with my co-author, Mike Walker, I started getting phone calls from all of my friends. Kris Jenner called me, Christian called me, Cici Shahian called me. I even got a message from Nicole's mother, Juditha Brown, asking me if, in fact, it was true that Nicole and I had spent one intimate evening together. I didn't know what else to do.

[Q] Bugliosi: Did they indicate to you how they had learned about it?

[A] Resnick: They told me that Cora Fishman had gone to them and told them that Nicole had told her. My initial response was, Why would Cora tell anybody? It was nobody's business. It was nothing that had to do with this case. When I found out Cora had told Juditha Brown about that night, and then when I found out that she had also told O.J., I knew that it was going to come out in the press. I knew that it would probably hit the trial.

[Q] Bugliosi: So you felt the story's being out there was a fait accompli?

[A] Resnick: Yes, and I wanted to explain it the way it truly was, rather than have people accept the embellished version, because Cora was making it sound as if it wasn't just one night. Which is all it was.

[Q] Bugliosi: Did you have any evidence that Cora had already approached the media at the time that you were in Vermont writing your first book?

[A] Resnick: Yes, I did. My co-author, who is an editor for the Enquirer, which also owns Star magazine, told me that Cora Fishman had approached the Star with a story regarding Nicole and me spending that night together. And it was indeed published. She had approached Barbara Walters with the story. She did, in fact, eventually go on Barbara Walters' show and talk about the intimacy. So I felt the only thing to do was to address it in as delicate a manner as possible. And to at least get the truth out, not the embellished version that I was hearing.

[Q] Bugliosi: Do you still associate with the same mutual friends you and Nicole had when she was alive, other than Cora Fishman?

[A] Resnick: Yes, I do. We have made a bond with one another to always stay together, protect one another and make sure nothing happens to any of us.

[Q] Bugliosi: But you have nothing further to do with Cora Fishman?

[A] Resnick: Right. We don't even acknowledge her presence on this planet.

[Q] Bugliosi: What are your feelings about the not-guilty verdict in the criminal trial?

[A] Resnick: I was so embarrassed to be called an American. I feel that there is no justice, and the loss of innocence for me in seeing our judicial system fail so miserably was overwhelming. I feel that Nicole's and Ron's lives were discounted in three hours and it was just the same feeling that I felt when JFK was assassinated. It was a visceral blow.

[Q] Bugliosi: In Dominick Dunne's foreword to your second book, Shattered, he wrote, "I learned very quickly that Faye was no airhead cashing in on her friend's murder. She didn't mince words. She said exactly what she thought, she was smart, she knew the score. To my amazement, words such as brave and fearless came to my mind." By the way, I agree with Dominick, but is that the way you perceive yourself, brave and fearless?

[A] Resnick: I thank Dominick for writing the foreword to my book. He is one of my heroes--besides you, Vince. I don't take the credit for being fearless or brave. I give that credit to Nicole. I just did what I felt had to be done. I believe in friendship and I believe that if people don't stand up for one another, then what do we have? We have nothing.

[Q] Bugliosi: One of the ironies in the Simpson case is that Simpson is black in color only, having long ago dissociated himself from the black community and having never suffered as an adult from the discrimination against blacks in our society. Yet, by the defense fraudulently injecting race into the case before a predominantly black jury, Simpson benefited from all the wrongs perpetrated against blacks through the years, particularly by those perpetrated by certain elements in law enforcement. Does it strike you as odd that Nicole did not want Simpson to forget his black roots and urged him to help poor and otherwise disadvantaged blacks?

[A] Resnick: No. Nicole always encouraged O.J. to do more for his community than he was willing to do. And it was a sore point between them. But O.J. felt it was very controversial. He had crossed the line. In fact, we used to make fun of him, we used to call him a white Jewish man.

[Q] Bugliosi: To his face?

[A] Resnick: Yes.

[Q] Bugliosi: What would he say to that?

[A] Resnick: Oh, he laughed. He thought that was hilarious. Most of his best friends were these old Jewish guys at the golf club, so that's what we used to call him. His only two black friends were--and I thought it was very sad and so did Nic--Marcus Allen and A.C. Cowlings.

[Q] Bugliosi: So in the last analysis, Nicole, whose murderer was freed in large part because he is black, had more compassion and concern for black people than her murderer did. Does that seem to be a fair assessment?

[A] Resnick: Absolutely.

[Q] Bugliosi: Comment briefly on some of the people you've met during the past two years in connection with this case, starting with Robert Kardashian. He was, as we all know, a close friend of O.J. Simpson's and part of Simpson's defense team. He was a friend of yours, as well. I understand. You wrote that he was one of the people floating rumors that some Colombians were after you.

[A] Resnick: Yes, I was wounded when I learned he had a part in attacking me. I know that Robert is a religious man, and it shocked me that he would join that team. I'm well aware, from having many conversations with Robert over the past few months, that he has been haunted by this, that he was in terrible denial when the trial first started. He truly believed what his friend had said to him. And I will not join the team of, you know, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. I'm glad that he's telling as much of the truth as he possibly can at this point.

[Q] Bugliosi: A.C. Cowlings.

[A] Resnick: It's sad--I feel like A.C.'s really a victim in this, too. A.C. has interfaced with O.J. throughout their entire lives and has no other options than to defend his friend. Nicole used to love A.C. I know A.C. loved Nicole. And I find the position that A.C. is being put in to be horrible.

[Q] Bugliosi: So you sympathize with A.C. Cowlings and actually like him.

[A] Resnick: I do. I do sympathize with him. I don't like what he's doing, but I understand it.

[Q] Bugliosi: Kato Kaelin.

[A] Resnick: Well, Kato, we always called him the court jester since he couldn't actually answer a question. In fact, I kept saying, "Where did he get that lobotomy?" I'm glad that he, too, has come clean with what he truly knew. I wish he only would have been honest and truthful at the trial, but I know he was terrified.

[Q] Bugliosi: What about Marcus Allen? How does he fit in, if at all, to what ultimately happened in this case?

[A] Resnick: Well, Marcus Allen is one of the few people who actually walked out of this case unscathed. He would not respond, did not respond, except to deny everything. And he was able to quash all subpoenas for the criminal case because his residences were out of the state of California. He did have a relationship with Nicole. When Private Diary first came out, Marcus Allen's attorney, Ed Hookstratten, said Marcus would sue me for saying so, though he knew that it was corroborated by three other sources. Marcus and Nicole did indeed have an affair. And Marcus never sued me.

[Q] Bugliosi: When did that affair start?

[A] Resnick: It started when O.J. would not talk to Nicole at all. It was after the divorce was final in 1992.

[Q] Bugliosi: Was Simpson aware of the affair?

[A] Resnick: Yes, he was very aware of the relationship and it made him absolutely crazy. Marcus was one of the many reasons Simpson was acting wildly over Nicole. Marcus and Nic stopped seeing each other when Nicole and O.J. reconciled. And Nicole made O.J. a promise and Marcus made O.J. a promise that they would never see each other again. The month before she died, Marcus started seeing Nicole again.

[Q] Bugliosi: When's the last time you're aware of that Marcus was with Nicole?

[A] Resnick: Two weeks before she died.

[Q] Bugliosi: She told you that?

[A] Resnick: Yes, she did.

[Q] Bugliosi: Getting into the area of domestic violence, you say in Shattered that statistics show upwards of 4 million women are living in abusive relationships.

[A] Resnick: Well, 4 million women report the abuse. But when we include the incidents that are not reported, the numbers are much higher, of course. I think the saddest fact is there are three times as many animal shelters in this country as there are shelters for abused women. I think it's something that we all need to take a look at. That, and the fact that in this country 11 women a day are murdered by their intimate partners.

[Q] Bugliosi: What advice would you give to women who are in abusive relationships?

[A] Resnick: The advice I would give first of all is to call a hotline for advice and help. Seeking shelter is important, but it's not enough. Victims have to address the problem in therapy.

They need to understand how to start living a different life. And they need to have the batterer receive some therapy as well, because without that, there is no hope.

If your abuser is not willing to get therapy and if you're not willing to address the problem and handle it professionally, then you should accumulate all the documents--your child's and your birth certificates, all of the papers--and start saving some money so that you can plan your way to freedom. So that you can start supporting yourself when you escape from that relationship. Restraining orders are essential, the police need to know about it, your doctors need to know about it, it needs to be brought to the attention of the public.

[Q] Bugliosi: What's the most important rule to follow?

[A] Resnick: Do not wait until the next time. Start planning, start taking care of yourself immediately.

[Q] Bugliosi: Because inevitably there is going to be another time?

[A] Resnick: There is always another time. Unless the batterer seeks treatment, he will always be a batterer.

[Q] Bugliosi: One final question. I've heard that before Nicole was murdered, you had plans to open a coffeeshop together. Tell us a little about it.

[A] Resnick: Nicole and I wanted to have complete independence. We thought it would be great to open up a business of our own. And because we worked so well together in whatever we did, and we got along so well, we thought we'd make great business partners. So we had the idea that we would open up this poetry-reading type of French coffee shop. We wanted to call it the Java Café, where a gentler, civilized, philosophical group of people would come in for verbal and literary exchange. We were going to have artists and poetry readings. And that was our dream. That was what we were working on.

[Q] Bugliosi: Had you set aside a certain amount of money for that?

[A] Resnick: Yes, we were both planning on investing $40,000 into the first one. Initially we were going to start one and then open others, because at that time, coffeehouses were becoming so big in Los Angeles.

[Q] Bugliosi: Did you happen to talk with Nicole about this during the last conversation you had with her, on the night she was murdered?

[A] Resnick: Yes, I did. Because Nicole was free of the spell of O.J., she told me we could now start planning all of the things that we were going to do. I was getting treatment, she had just released herself from that relationship. So essentially anything that ever held us back was now gone. So we were talking about how nice it feels to be autonomous women and how incredible it would be to have our business.

[Q] Bugliosi: So Nicole was very excited on the night she was murdered about going into this coffeehouse venture with you?

[A] Resnick: She was so excited--it's hard to express the freedom she felt that night. She was in just the greatest, most amazing mood. I had never sensed her to be so happy.

O.J. could sell anything. He could sell you a glass of sand in the desert, that's how successful he was at being charming.