Playboy Interview: Tommy Hilfiger

If you know nothing else about him, you know his name. Tommy Hilfiger has made sure of that. Any fashion designer can slap his name on the seat of a pair of jeans or embroider a tiny yet tasteful insignia on the pocket of his shirts. But Tommy Hilfiger wants more. A lot more.

His T-shirts scream that name in two-inch-high letters or in a huge signature scrawled across his trademark red, white and blue nautical flag. His workout gear reads Tommy Hilfiger down the sleeves and around the waist; some jackets have the insignia Tommy emblazoned across the back in characters prominent enough for your half-blind grandmother to decipher in a dark alley. His dress shirts and ties sport a Hilfiger crest so big it looks like a soup stain.

In 1985 a billboard went up in New York's Times Square that declared: "The four great American designers for men are: R___L___,P___E___,C___K___ and T___H___." The fact that few people had ever heard of the last of the four caused a furor on Seventh Avenue. None of Hilfiger's critics at the time, most of whom considered him a marketing feat rather than a great designer, could have guessed that the Tommy Hilfiger Corp. would become a $600 million (revenue) public company and one of the highest valued "frock stocks" on the New York Stock Exchange. He likes to call his menswear line "classics with a twist," but that phrase says little about his broad appeal. Midwestern dads, rap stars, street kids, yuppies--men of all stripes wear his clothes. Even Bill Clinton has been known to don his ties. And that's what irks other designers about Hilfiger. They say he is more concerned with being famous than with being fashionable, and many simply don't consider him a designer. They say the guy is such a shameless self-promoter that an aide follows him at public appearances with a pile of signed photographs for Hilfiger to hand to fans. In 1995 Seventh Avenue's smart set was so piqued by his rapid ascent that the Council of Fashion Designers of America refused to give an award in the menswear category.

"Everybody says, 'You're trying to copy Ralph Lauren,' or 'You're the younger Ralph Lauren,'" admits the slim, 5'8" designer whose toothy grin and quasi pageboy haircut belie his 45 years. As he briskly traverses the majestic halls of his New York kingdom like a young potentate, he adds, "Ralph is Ralph. He has a wonderful business, a wonderful empire. And yes, I like his taste level. But I have a whole different thing--much faster moving, much younger, much hipper. We're into a scene, so to speak. I'm part of pop culture."

Indeed, Hilfiger seems to exist in a brash, public realm more suited to a platinum-selling rock star, a milieu at odds with what one has come to expect of an exclusive Seventh Avenue designer. In his Fifth Avenue office, which offers tremendous views of one of Manhattan's great landmarks, the 42nd Street New York Public Library, the contrast becomes even more striking. Amid the requisite baronial touches--20-foot ceilings, a gargantuan mahogany desk, a rack of be-spoke English-style duds--rests evidence that Hilfiger looks to more than the past for creative inspiration.

Framed poster-size photos of Mick Jagger and David Bowie, two longtime Hilfiger idols who are now friends, peer down from a wall behind his desk. Propped up on an antique display cabinet in one corner are electric guitars given to him by rock luminaries Steve Winwood, Ron Wood, Mick Jones of Foreigner and Bruce Springsteen. He just received another from Metallica. "I made them some clothes for their last video," he explains. He has also dressed the Spice Girls and No Doubt.

As for the man himself, Hilfiger is a whirlwind of manic energy. At key moments in any conversation, he pauses, as if pondering a point. All of a sudden inspiration strikes and he sputters to interrupt himself, sometimes midsentence. "Do you want to take a walk now?" he says after one such interruption. "I'll give you a tour." He is the epitome of casual elegance in a crisp white monogrammed shirt, khakis and black Gucci loafers, and he excitedly grabs a three-pocket navy blazer off the rack as we head for the elevators.

At first, it appears Hilfiger is a celebrity among his own ranks. In his design offices, faces light up as he addresses employees--young men and women, black, white, Asian and Hispanic--by name. "Hi, Don! How are you?" he calls out to one African American hipster. "Hi, Tommy. Fine," comes the upbeat response. Unlike most celebrities, however, Hilfiger memorizes an employee "face book" to achieve this effect. Appearances, apparently, count for a lot.

"This is very cool," he says, rubbing a swatch of cowhide between his thumb and forefinger. "You know what we need?" he says to Don, his mind whirring into action. "We need a leather jacket like this"--pointing to the sample--"that has a little label on it, a little flag, and then embroidered on the back, maybe in chenille, 'Tommy Hilfiger. Rodeo Drive, Beverly Hills, California.' OK?" He is talking about his new flagship store, a flashy, half block-long showcase in Los Angeles scheduled to open in November.

All this high-end hullabaloo is a far cry from Elmira, the small, dreary city in upstate New York where Thomas Jacob Hilfiger was born on March 24, 1952. The son of the late Richard Hilfiger, a jeweler and watchmaker, and his wife, Virginia, a nurse who still lives in Elmira, he grew up the second eldest of nine children in a working-class Irish Catholic neighborhood where large families were the norm. "Our nine was nothing like the Sheehans' 14 up the street," he jokes.

As a teenager, he was not a serious student. It was only later that he was diagnosed with dyslexia, but by then the condition had already shaped his persona. From an early age, Tommy was determined to make his mark in other ways.

In the late Sixties he grew his hair long and started grooving to a rock-and-roll beat, much to the chagrin of his straitlaced father. The father couldn't imagine why the son wasn't planning for college and, come to think of it, he didn't care for the hippie scene, either. He wasn't expecting young Tommy to succeed at much of anything.

Hilfiger believes it was his urge to prove his father wrong that motivated him one day in 1969 to take his life savings, $150, and drive to New York City, where he and two partners purchased 20 pairs of bell-bottoms unavailable in their square hometown. Back in Elmira they resold them to friends and parlayed the profits into a small clothing business.

In his senior year in high school he and his two buddies opened a store called People's Place that catered to the burgeoning hippie crowd. By his mid-20s, he owned ten shops in upstate New York--as well as a Porsche, a Mercedes, a Jaguar and a Jeep.

Increasingly frustrated by his inability to find all the mod fashions his customers desired, Hilfiger began sketching his own designs and cajoled manufacturers into producing them. During those years, business took a backseat to creativity, and in 1977, thanks to sloppy management, People's Place went into bankruptcy.

Devastated, Hilfiger moved to New York City with Susan Cirona, a creative director in his Ithaca store whom he married in 1980. Together, the couple got jobs designing jeans for Jordache, though they were quickly fired. In 1984, after various business ventures, Hilfiger got financial backing for his own brand from Mohan Murjani--the Indian tycoon behind Gloria Vanderbilt Jeans.

The marketing push behind his mid-Eighties launch was the brainchild of Murjani and George Lois, the whiz who sold Americans on Volkswagen in the Sixties. While it created some animosity among Hilfiger's fashion industry peers, the advertising juggernaut did the trick. "Our business grew a lot faster as a result," he says.

Soon, the business had outgrown Murjani, and Hilfiger searched for a partner with a global vision. In 1989 he found Silas Chou, the scion of a Hong Kong textile family that was already manufacturing Tommy Hilfiger sweaters. Chou demanded controlling interest (35 percent) in the company, but in exchange, Hilfiger got financial clout. His salary last year was $8.5 million.

In March 1994 rapper Snoop Doggy Dogg wore an oversize Hilfiger jersey on "Saturday Night Live," igniting wildfire sales in a market high-profile designers had previously eschewed--young, urban African Americans. Hilfiger embraced his new audience and was rewarded with a $90 million increase in sales the following year. In fall 1996 Hilfiger introduced a line of casual-wear for women as well as a women's fragrance, tommy girl. He recently introduced footwear, and clothing for infants and toddlers. Ahead are home furnishings and higher-priced tailored lines for men and women.

Finally, in 1996, he received the Menswear Designer of the Year award from the CFDA. But Hilfiger continues to set himself apart from the haute-couture pack with the knowledge that these days new styles bubble up from the streets. "Ten years ago, you would look at somebody wearing a backward baseball cap and think something was wrong," he explains. "Now you can go to the Westchester Country Club, or to the White House on a Sunday afternoon, and see people wearing their baseball caps backward." Not that he hasn't hit some snags. A recent smear campaign, disseminated via the Internet, alleged that the designer had made racist remarks on "Oprah" and CNN's "Style With Elsa Klensch," TV shows Hilfiger has never appeared on. "Why would a businessman say anything like that anyway?" he wonders.

Although Hilfiger is notoriously private about his personal life, this much is known: He and Susie have three daughters and one son, ages 2 to 12. They live on a $10 million farm in Connecticut, where a staff of eight tends to a 22-room clapboard residence on the edge of a wildlife sanctuary. Then there are the frequent weekends spent on Nantucket and at the house next door to Mick Jagger's on the Caribbean island of Mustique.

We sent writer Alec Foege to spend time with the busy designer both at his New York headquarters and at his satellite offices in Connecticut. Foege got the scoop on Hilfiger's squeaky-clean success story. He reports:

"Because Hilfiger is so courteous and friendly, it's easy to assume he's not worried about anything. But beneath the cool demeanor, there is a palpable nervous energy and insecurity. After politely talking for an hour, he'll start flipping through fashion magazines or yell out to his assistant, 'Don't forget to get Mick on the phone.'

"Walking down Fifth Avenue with Hilfiger is a surreal experience. First of all, every fifth person on the street is wearing an item with his name on it. In just two and a half blocks we saw people wearing his sweatshirts, T-shirts, ties and backpacks. There were Hilfiger ads at virtually every bus stop and on phone booths.

"When he's out, he is trailed by at least one bodyguard with a walkie-talkie, a practice he started long before Gianni Versace's murder. But when somebody, bike messenger or businessman, says hello, he says hello back and shakes hands.

"His openness and compassion seem genuine, as does his desire to be the biggest and greatest. Spend a little time with Hilfiger and you start to realize that, in his mind, he is a rock star."

[Q] Playboy: What's it like to walk down the street and see your name plastered all over everybody's clothes?

[A] Hilfiger: I'm very proud. However, it's also frustrating sometimes because I see cheap, tacky counterfeits, and I don't want people to think we made those. For a while we were busting people left and right, but it's still happening. There's recourse, but you have to find these people. It's like finding drug dealers.

[Q] Playboy: Have you ever wondered if the acceptance of your clothing has anything to do with how your name looks or sounds?

[A] Hilfiger: I don't think it does. It could be any name. If you have the right product, the right advertising, the right imaging behind it, it could say Johnny Hallyday. The way we have built Tommy Hilfiger is through (a) the product and (b) the image, the advertising, the public relations and the marketing. Having the goods on the right people. Having the merchandise in the right stores. All the right colors. Making sure all the ingredients are right. I mean, look at Calvin Klein. Look at Ralph Lauren. Those names aren't too cool. The product tells the story, and the imaging around the product.

[Q] Playboy: Does the product always come first?

[A] Hilfiger: Absolutely. If the product is great, people will buy it. If the product is not great, people won't buy it. People aren't stupid. They understand clearly what they're buying and what's available out there.

[Q] Playboy: Did you set out to become a celebrity?

[A] Hilfiger: You know what it is? The more known you become with the American public, the better your chances are of succeeding--if you can portray a positive image.

[Q] Playboy: So you're part of the image?

[A] Hilfiger: I'm part of part of the image.

[Q] Playboy: And what is that image?

[A] Hilfiger: So far, the image has been fresh, young, healthy, hip. It's been ethnically diverse. Using ads which reflect that has given me a strong foothold in the market. Because when you think Tommy Hilfiger, you think of those images. Those images are positive, whereas some images from other designers are negative. Or different from that.

[Q] Playboy: Are you talking about the pale, emaciated models in Calvin Klein's ads?

[A] Hilfiger: Calvin has been a genius in his marketing approach. It's not something I would do because that's not my thing. I think some of it has been too negative. I don't want anybody to think negative.

[Q] Playboy: President Clinton spoke out against the "heroin chic" look popularized by designers and photographers. Has heroin become an intrinsic part of the fashion world?

[A] Hilfiger: It's really not a part of our world at all. And if it is, we're oblivious to it. We surround ourselves with healthy, spirited, positive people and we haven't experienced any difficulties with the models we use or the people we associate with. Although I believe those types of people would stay away from us as well, because we are the antithesis of what they're all about. It's an embarrassment to the industry, and President Clinton did the right thing in scolding the fashion industry. I don't in any way condone the use of models who look as if they're on drugs. And I won't mention names, but there are other big designers who have condoned it, so to speak. We think that's completely wrong. Bringing it into the open is appropriate because perhaps it will remind people that it's not the right thing to do.

[Q] Playboy: How has Gianni Versace's murder affected the fashion world?

[A] Hilfiger: Gianni had such connections with music and fashion that he will be sorely missed as one of the leaders in that game. He was so flamboyant and interesting that he inspired a lot of big names to step out and get on the edge. I believe he was the catalyst in bringing music and fashion together in such a monstrous way.

[Q] Playboy: Does his murder give you second thoughts about being a celebrity?

[A] Hilfiger: I've always been security conscious, and I don't think this will persuade me to increase security. I will say that we are surrounded at all times by various security people.

[Q] Playboy: What do you make of the trend toward using homoerotic imagery--muscular, naked men--in fashion advertising meant to appeal to straight men?

[A] Hilfiger: Number one, it's attention-getting. Number two, straight men may not look at it as being homoerotic. A lot of straight men might look at it as being--they see a muscular guy, they might want to look like that. But I don't think straight men in general like homoerotic advertising. When I look at male advertising, I don't get emotional unless I like the clothes, or the car in the background, or the height at which Michael Jordan is jumping in the air. Because I'm not a homosexual. If I look at Ralph's advertising I look at the clothes or at the background. "I like that jacket," or "That's a cool color combination," or "I like that helicopter in the background," or something like that. But I also respond emotionally to female advertising, especially if the woman is incredibly appealing.

[Q] Playboy: People tend to be dressed in your advertisements.

[A] Hilfiger: Yes. It's much more real. There's usually a group, and they're having fun. They're smiling. They're upbeat, not negative, and very American. A lot of models in other ads have scowls on their faces. My models are usually smiling. There's a difference.

[Q] Playboy: How come models in other designers' ads aren't smiling?

[A] Hilfiger: Well, there's a snobbery attached to fashion. For some, it's almost chic to be snobby. I've taken the opposite approach. I think it's a bit tacky to be snobby. It's tasteless. A lot of high-fashion people don't think I'm cool, because my clothes aren't expensive enough and my models aren't stuck-up enough. But, then, having a big, successful business gains you a different respect.

[Q] Playboy: Are there any drawbacks to being heterosexual in a business dominated by homosexuals?

[A] Hilfiger: Well, I like women. And in this business, that's sometimes a negative. Case in point: We're setting up a fashion shoot for a women's campaign. The photographer and ad people and casting people want me to see all these girls. So 25 girls come up to the office and I'm supposed to pick the best one or two. First one comes into my office, I say, "She's incredible. She's just beautiful. Reserve her." Another one comes up, and I say, "She has the most incredible eyes." Another one comes up and I say, "She has the perfect body for our campaign. Perfect. Put her on the side also." By now the photographer and the casting person are getting a little frustrated.

[Q] Playboy: So what do you do?

[A] Hilfiger: I say, "Guys, I'm confused." Or, I take the modeling books home to Susie, my wife, and my daughter Alexandria, and say, "OK, girls, what do you think?" I grew up with five sisters, so I'm pretty good at dealing with women, but I don't know if I'm as good a women's designer as I am a men's designer. I mean, I can look at a pair of pants or a jacket and know that I like the way it looks. If I look at a skirt or a blouse or dress I think I might know, but I'm not positive. A lot of gay fashion designers probably know what it would look like on their bodies. But, you know, Ralph Lauren is straight. Oscar de la Renta is straight. There are a lot of successful straight male designers. The perception is that no fashion designers are straight.

[Q] Playboy: Why is that?

[A] Hilfiger: Because in the old days, fashion designers designed dresses and gowns, and they were effeminate, most of them. But now it's not only about fashion design, it's about running a challenging, global, public company. I'm not much different from Phil Knight at Nike. We're building a product, we're running a business, we're marketing. It's not much different from Apple. It's not much different from running Coca-Cola. Ralph Lauren and I are engaged in something like the Pepsi-Coke war, or the BMW-Mercedes war. We're moving fast and forward, and we're each conscious of what the other is doing.

[Q] Playboy: So you feel competitive with Ralph Lauren?

[A] Hilfiger: Absolutely. You know, there are different categories of designers, but both Ralph and I are big in men's casual American sportswear. That's the largest part of the designer business, and we are neck and neck.

[Q] Playboy: What would you say to the guy who thinks, I like Tommy Hilfiger's clothes, but isn't he all about marketing? Aren't you just putting your name all over this stuff and selling something that's already available?

[A] Hilfiger: I'm sure there are cynics. They don't really understand it. But then there are people who are pleasantly surprised, who look at the items and say, "I get a certain feeling about who designed this." The way I see it, everyone needs casual clothes, athletic clothes, some sort of dressy, respectable clothes. Body care or skin care or hair care products. Everyone needs belts. Everyone needs socks, underwear. Everyone needs a necktie. So if I can give people the right items--in the right colors, with the right quality, the right style, in all these categories--then I can have a big, big business creating a lifestyle for these consumers. Now, some will buy everything from head to toe. Some will buy just the shirts. Some will buy only the footwear. Some may get fragrance as a gift. There are different reasons behind someone getting in touch with a brand.

[Q] Playboy: What is it about your brand?

[A] Hilfiger: I'm a young brand--not in terms of how long we've been in business but in our focus on the younger person. And everyone wants to look young, so that's a positive. I'm younger than Calvin, younger than Ralph, younger than Donna Karan. I'm younger than any of those designers in frame of mind, taste, ability. Younger things sell to a bigger audience from the start. My clothes go platinum right away as opposed to waiting two years.

[Q] Playboy: You clearly take a lot of inspiration from traditional fashions, yet you also seem obsessed with pop culture. Where did that mix originate?

[A] Hilfiger: When I was growing up, my friends and I used to listen to music all the time. We went from listening to the Beatles to the Kinks to the Yardbirds to Traffic. To Zeppelin to the Who to the Stones. Hendrix, the Doors, Joplin. In high school we would sit around and look at the album covers. And whenever there were photographs of the band on the cover, we were more attracted to the music. We wanted to look like those band members but couldn't figure out how to do it, because our parents wouldn't let us have long hair. And we couldn't find bell-bottoms or mod clothes in Elmira, New York. So in 1969 two friends and I put some money together and drove to New York City, where we bought a bunch of jeans. We brought them back to Elmira and sold them to our friends. It was sort of like a new beginning. Anything traditional did not make sense to me. It was a rebellious time. The Vietnam war was going on. It was the year of Woodstock. My life was really changing.

[Q] Playboy: You had a rocky relationship with your father. Did that influence the direction in which you went?

[A] Hilfiger: My father was very proud. He wanted his son to go to an Ivy League school. He wanted me to do what he had aspired to do but didn't have the opportunity to do. He wanted me to become a lawyer or a doctor or to get into some stable profession. And he was critical of me and my grades. I wasn't a serious kid. I was silly, always stirring the pot, making trouble at home with my sisters or brothers, always creating a little bit of havoc. I think I really drove him crazy. Then, when I went away with my friends to Cape Cod and Hyannis and came back at the end of the summer with long hair and sandals and bell-bottoms, he was freaked.

[Q] Playboy: He was pretty straitlaced?

[A] Hilfiger: Oh, yes. A real Brooks Brothers type. He didn't want his son to be seen in Elmira with long hair and bell-bottoms. My father just didn't get it. He wasn't sure if I was gay or completely drugged out or just rebellious. He didn't understand. "Why would anybody want to have long hair? And why would you want to wear pants that are flared out at the bottom? And straight, normal guys don't wear sandals."

[Q] Playboy: Did you dress to antagonize your father?

[A] Hilfiger: No, we just hated everything about the establishment. We thought it sucked. After all, we had tripped on acid and discovered the Beatles and the Magical Mystery Tour. Our parents didn't know about that stuff, so what did they really know? There was this whole peace-love world happening. Why would anybody want to go to Vietnam? But my father wanted to live by the book. He really believed. He served in the Army, so why shouldn't I? Looking back, I think my father was saddled with too much responsibility. Finances were always an issue, having nine children to support. It was a tremendous responsibility. I mean, I have four children and it's, like, major.

[Q] Playboy: What is your family's background?

[A] Hilfiger: My father was third-generation German. Bavarian. My mother is third-generation Irish. Real blue-collar. But in dealing with his clients, my father met wealthy people from Old World families. He saw the way they lived and knew where their children were going to boarding school and college. But I was not predicted to become successful. I got terrible grades in school.

[Q] Playboy: You suffered from dyslexia?

[A] Hilfiger: I still have a problem identifying certain letters and numbers. But in those days, I couldn't figure out what was wrong. I felt really bad about myself in school when I couldn't get the work. Everybody thought it was because I was a screwup. I used my class-clown routine so they wouldn't think I was completely stupid, so there was a reason Tommy wasn't passing algebra. It was because Tommy wasn't in class half the time, and when he was there he was making people laugh. That's why he didn't do well. I didn't want anybody to know that I didn't get it.

[Q] Playboy: That must have been scary.

[A] Hilfiger: It was scary when I brought my report card home. I had to repeat tenth grade. It was pretty embarrassing.

[Q] Playboy: Did you graduate from high school?

[A] Hilfiger: Yes, by the skin of my teeth. I think they graduated a lot of us just to get rid of us.

[Q] Playboy: Did you try college?

[A] Hilfiger: I went to a community college for a semester and then to Cornell University for about a week. I hated it. I hated the idea of having to be in a class at a certain time, having to be responsible to this book and this teacher and this thing that was going on, when my business was my real love and passion.

[Q] Playboy: But you persisted.

[A] Hilfiger: If I couldn't go through the door, I would go over, around, or dig a hole to get under. I wasn't going to stop. I've always had a tremendous amount of confidence in myself. Even though I was a jokester, I was serious about making money. I knew it wasn't going to come from my parents or from a scholarship to Brown or Harvard. So I opened a small boutique called People's Place with a couple friends in Elmira and sold these clothes along with all the appropriate gear of the time. Candles, incense, pipes, papers. The works.

[Q] Playboy: Would you call it a head shop?

[A] Hilfiger: Actually, we called it a boutique. But there was a head shop within the boutique. And it was very successful. I became fanatic about the music and the fashion.

[Q] Playboy: How did you manage to run your own store at 18?

[A] Hilfiger: We opened the doors at three in the afternoon when we were seniors in high school. The business was ticking and it was an absolute thrill to be part of. It was the smell of the incense burning in the store, the colors of the pants stacked up. The music playing. The customers walking in. I mean, all these cool kids. It was like a hangout. But on the other hand, it was a serious business. After that, we opened stores in Corning and Cortland and Ithaca. The store in Ithaca was cool because Cornell students, kids from all over the world, came in and loved what we were selling. Then I started thinking, I really want to design the clothes. I don't want to buy from manufacturers, I want to give them the ideas. So I talked with some manufacturers. I had to talk my way into it, but a couple of people gave me breaks.

[Q] Playboy: Did you know anyone who knew how to design?

[A] Hilfiger: No. No.

[Q] Playboy: Did you even know what a pattern was?

[A] Hilfiger: Vaguely. But I was smart enough to know I could hire somebody to do what I didn't know how to do. I also knew it was about the marketing of an idea.

[Q] Playboy: Did you understand that way back then?

[A] Hilfiger: Yes. I knew there had to be substance behind the marketing, but I wanted to figure out the concept. Not just the clothes but the marketing of the clothes. Displaying the whole thing. I went to rock concerts all the time, and I played a lot of the music in my stores.

[Q] Playboy: What was a defining rock concert for you?

[A] Hilfiger: October 1969. Rochester War Memorial, Rochester, New York. Led Zeppelin and Spooky Tooth. Picked up my friend on the way and we drove to the concert, tripping on acid. We sat in the faraway stands. We watched Robert Plant swing his microphone around with Jimmy Page playing Communication Breakdown. Chills ran through our bones. And they were dressed in, like, this English royal rock gear. That was a distinct turning point. From that moment, I wanted to be a part of that world. My friends would sit at a concert and appreciate the music, but I was into the persona of the band.

[Q] Playboy: How come you didn't start a band instead of starting a store?

[A] Hilfiger: Some people can pick up a guitar and start playing. I was responsive to fashion. It came easy for me. I was able to pick the right clothes for my customers and make my stores look great. I had the touch. When I couldn't find exactly what I wanted to offer my customers, I started sketching items I liked on a pad of paper.

[Q] Playboy: Were the sketches based on these rock performers?

[A] Hilfiger: Whatever I liked. The music was a strong inspiration, but I also began traveling. I went to London, where the Carnaby Street thing was coming on strong. King's Road was a happening place. The New York Dolls came on in New York. David Bowie was just coming out. And music and fashion were, like, joined. The Stones were really hot, and Mick and Keith, Bowie, T. Rex, Elton John and Freddie Mercury were setting trends with what they wore. I wanted to design their clothes. I wanted to go into the design business.

[Q] Playboy: Even though you had no formal training?

[A] Hilfiger: Right. But I had no formal training as a retailer, either. I hired the right people, surrounded myself with--well, at the time, who I thought were the right people. Besides, I didn't like the responsibility that came with owning a business. I just wanted to design.

[Q] Playboy: What were your first designs?

[A] Hilfiger: Jeans and jeanswear. Bell-bottoms and jean jackets and jean vests. Jean shirts.

[Q] Playboy: You were designing clothing for hipsters. Did you think about fashion differently from the way you do now?

[A] Hilfiger: Nowadays, I'm probably a lot more in tune with what the mass consumer wants. Back then I was thinking more about individual items. Now I do collections.

[Q] Playboy: Is that easier?

[A] Hilfiger: Actually, it's somewhat easier to think about. If you design a theme, like a nautical theme, it's easier to think of a lot of items than just one item.

[Q] Playboy: Where do those sorts of themes come from?

[A] Hilfiger: From the outdoors, travel. The world today.

[Q] Playboy: Can you be more specific?

[A] Hilfiger: OK, I'm on Nantucket in the summer. I'm on a boat. And I'm thinking of what it must have been like to be a captain on a boat in the Thirties. How he would have dressed, and how the crew would have dressed. Then I'm looking at a fishing boat off yonder, and I'm thinking, What do you think those guys wore back then? Then I see a windsurfer in the harbor and I look at what he's wearing. I see his girlfriend standing on the beach, and I think, Wow, she's great, look at what she's wearing. Then there's a bunch of kids on the beach in a Range Rover with a surfboard on top. Then I put all that into a blender and I start coming out with great ideas. I picture something in my mind and then get it designed.

[Q] Playboy: Are you somebody who walks through the streets and looks at what everybody's wearing?

[A] Hilfiger: Yes, always. I love color and I love vibrancy. I love newness. I also like people, and every person has something different to offer. You can't always get the whole picture just by seeing something. Sometimes you have to talk with the person who's wearing it. You have to talk with somebody who knows something about it, like some of the kids who work for me who are snowboarders and skateboarders. I'll just say, "Hey, guys, what's happening?" And they will say, "Tighter-fitting, bigger, baggier. Neutral colors, brighter colors." I mean, sometimes you have to pry a little.

[Q] Playboy: Some people would say a designer should set trends, not follow them.

[A] Hilfiger: Well, honestly speaking, we're not reinventing the wheel. Not one designer reinvents the wheel. They redesign designs. They re-create and they put their touch on existing designs. Skirts and pants and dresses and jackets and sweaters and T-shirts and polo shirts have been around as long as sewing machines, thread and cloth. But the good designers figure out something new to do with them. I've taken classic, traditional formulas and changed them. I make them newer, fresher, more interesting, more fun. More stylish. More colorful. I've added all sorts of detail, I've reengineered fits, I've treated fabrics. I've made most of these clothes more comfortable. I've made them with great quality and made them affordable.

[Q] Playboy: How does that distinguish you from Calvin Klein or Ralph Lauren?

[A] Hilfiger: They all have their formulas. Rolls-Royce has its formula. BMW has a formula, Mercedes has a formula, Ford has a formula. They all make cars, but they're all different.

[Q] Playboy: But Tommy Hilfiger is a cut above. Your stock is arguably the most successful in the history of the apparel industry. How have you been able to build a strong business in such a faddish environment?

[A] Hilfiger: You have to give them the next, whether they're hip-hop kids or college kids or doctors or lawyers. And you have to make damn sure the next is great merchandise.

[Q] Playboy: When did hip-hop stars start wearing your clothes?

[A] Hilfiger: My brother Andy [director of public relations for Tommy Jeans] brought me a bunch of hip-hop groups. He said, "Tommy, these groups are very hip. And they love your clothes. Let's dress them." So we dressed Snoop Doggy Dogg for Saturday Night Live. And all of a sudden these hip young groups from Harlem and the Bronx started singing about my clothes. And I thought it was cool. A lot of people, uptight Wall Street people, said, "What do you think about all these hip-hoppers wearing your clothes?" I said, "I think it's pretty great." That got back to the hip-hoppers and I think they looked at it as if I was embracing them. Which was true. So I began surrounding myself with street people to get more of a grip on it.

[Q] Playboy: A lot of hip-hop artists have mentioned your name in their lyrics. Do you have a favorite?

[A] Hilfiger: I liked it when Mobb Deep said, "Tommy Hill was my nigga and others couldn't figure/How me and Hilfiger used to move through with vigor." I thought that was cool--he called me his nigga! But you can have every rap group singing about you and still not have the right stuff. It's got to have the right fit, it's got to be great quality, the right price, the right weight. It's got to be the right product.

[Q] Playboy: Some blacks criticize white designers for fostering a consumerist desire for expensive clothing among kids who can't afford it. How do you respond?

[A] Hilfiger: If these kids weren't buying my clothes, they'd be buying somebody else's. Plus, I actually give back to the community. We're running a business and we're making what we think is a better product. I hope we're doing the right thing.

[Q] Playboy: How come you've never designed a high-couture line?

[A] Hilfiger: I've always wanted to sell clothes and make money. I didn't want to design clothes and lose money. I also didn't want to design clothes that would end up in a museum rather than on people's bodies. If you look at success from an artistic point of view as well as a commercial point of view, you can be successful. Some designers want to control everyone and everything and that's when they run into problems.

[Q] Playboy: Do you have any plans for a couture line?

(continued on page 172) Tommy Hilfiger(continued from page 68)

[A] Hilfiger: I'm in the process of building a collection for men, and later I'll do one for women. The men's line will be in our Beverly Hills store this fall, and the women's will be out a year from fall. It's a small business, but we have a lot of customers who need it and want it. I get pleasure doing it because I want to make hand-tailored suits for myself. My uniform during the day is usually khakis and a white or blue shirt. But when I go out at night, I like elegant, tailor-made clothing in luxurious fabrics.

[Q] Playboy: Your path in fashion is almost the opposite of most designers.

[A] Hilfiger: Yes. I thought of designing an upper-crust, expensive collection at the beginning, but it was such a risk. Having it fail would have put me out of business immediately, as opposed to having this strong platform underneath. Even if I have a cold season or two, even if I make some mistakes, I could never fall to the ground because the platform is so secure--I shouldn't say never because it could always happen, I guess. But the chances of us hurting financially because of bad colors one season aren't good. It wouldn't put us out of business. A lot of people go out of business when they hit a chilly season.

[Q] Playboy: Your women's designs don't look all that different from your men's.

[A] Hilfiger: In the beginning we talked to people and everybody said that women like feminine clothes. They don't want logos. They don't want the bright-color stuff. It has to be more subtle, different, more fashionable. So we came out with our first collection, which didn't explode. It sold, because of the name, but it didn't explode. That was last fall. We found that women wanted the male-looking stuff with the logo. They wanted the name with the patches, the real preppie, classic, true-blue Tommy Hilfiger sportswear. They didn't want anything feminine or dressy or fashionwise.

[Q] Playboy: What do you make of that?

[A] Hilfiger: The power of the brand stands for something. The woman wants to buy into that, but she can't find it from anybody else. The feminine, dressy, nonlogoed, subtle stuff she can find from a thousand people. But she can't buy my signature from anybody else. By Christmas we had changed the line and we had an unbelievable season. Now in women's casualwear, in most stores, we're in the number one slot.

[Q] Playboy: What happens when an idea you love doesn't sell?

[A] Hilfiger: I go to the next. I don't try out a group. I usually try out one item at a time.

[Q] Playboy: Most designers would say, "Of course it's taking a while to catch on. That's because it's new, it's radical. It's genius."

[A] Hilfiger: That thinking, in my opinion, is antiquated. It's not logical.

[Q] Playboy: How do you balance what your older customers want with the desires of the youth market?

[A] Hilfiger: By feeling the pulse of America. I know what a 70-year-old wants, because that's not hard to figure out. He wants classics, great quality, affordability. And he wants a certain amount of subtlety in design. But it has to be a little new and a bit fresh. He likes to golf. He likes vacation stuff. The college kid likes prep-pie, oversize, affordable, cool. The hip-hop kids like bright, athletic, oversize. They like jeanswear. Girls like a lot of the same things. Little boys like the logos, the colors, the same things street kids like. Europeans like the American look, as do the Japanese. Some South Americans like it a little cooler. Canadians like it a little warmer. It's a formula I have worked on for a long time, and I understand it fairly well.

[Q] Playboy: The original chain of stores that you started as a high school student went bankrupt. What happened?

[A] Hilfiger: I had two partners in People's Place. One left after the first year and moved to Canada. The other stayed. Eventually I wanted to leave the business and design, but I really couldn't do it because I didn't know how to get into the design world in New York. Then my accountants came to me and said, "You owe more money than you have." I said, "Well, let's go to the bank and just borrow some." They said, "No, you've already done that. And if you don't pay your bills, you'll have to file Chapter 11." So that was a big wake-up call.

[Q] Playboy: How many stores did you have at that point?

[A] Hilfiger: About eight. We filed Chapter 11. It was a terrible embarrassment to my family. I wanted out, so I split the business with my partner, closed a bunch of stores. He ended up with one store, I ended up with one store. I sold my store. Later, he sold his. I moved to New York and got into the design world.

[Q] Playboy: Would people have known that you were the one designing the clothes?

[A] Hilfiger: No. My wife and I got married in 1980 and went to India. We designed a collection for an Indian gentleman who owned factories there. We called it Tommy Hill. Later, I found out someone there had already registered the name Tommy Hill and I couldn't use it.

[Q] Playboy: And then you were hired by Jordache.

[A] Hilfiger: Jordache had one pair of jeans that really propelled the business. The change was the back pocket--whether it was a horse's head or a circle or a line. They thought, and we thought, that they needed a whole collection of items. After I designed the collection they decided they didn't need it. My wife and I did that as a team. So they fired us. They said they didn't need designers.

[Q] Playboy: Then you met Mohan Murjani, who financed Gloria Vanderbilt Jeans.

[A] Hilfiger: I told him I liked the classics, but I wanted to make them hip. I wanted to make them different. I said I'd do oversize shirts and relaxed trousers and all this other stuff. So he agreed to back me. We went into business officially under the name Tommy Hilfiger in 1984.

[Q] Playboy: Do you think the advertising blitz that made your career in 1985 lost you credibility in the fashion world?

[A] Hilfiger: George Lois and Murjani dreamed up the scheme. At first, I was apprehensive, but I thought it was clever and I didn't have a lot to lose at that point. So I figured I would go with it. It was difficult at first. People were a little pissed off. I'm sure they still are.

[Q] Playboy: At the time, Jack Hyde of the Fashion Institute of Technology was quoted as saying, "Tommy Hilfiger is not a designer, he's a creation. I have never seen an ad campaign so arrogant and tasteless. Everyone else has done well with those looks, so why shouldn't he? But why not just come out and say we're marketing a successful line? Why all this song and dance about a great new designer?" How did that make you feel?

[A] Hilfiger: The first time I read one of his quotes in The New York Times I was devastated. I thought, Oh my God, he really doesn't know me. He doesn't know I'm a hardworking person who has as much business being in this business as he does. But I'm sure there are a lot of cynics, still. I'm sure there are a lot of people just waiting for it to fail. Last week the stock took a bit of a hit. So it really made me think. It's easy to make a costly mistake.

[Q] Playboy: You meet a lot of beautiful women in your travels--supermodels, movie stars. How do you resist such adulterous temptations?

[A] Hilfiger: Some people are born with certain values or are taught certain values. If you live by a certain code or standard it's not hard to decipher what's right and what's wrong. It's simple: I have a conscience. I have to live with myself. I don't want a mistress or a girlfriend. It would be a horrible feeling to think I was deceiving my best friend and wife of 17 years. I know a lot of men who have mistresses, but I just couldn't do that. I also feel I'd be betraying my children and my reputation and everything. Everybody who cheats gets caught. So why even bother doing it? And how can you possibly live with yourself knowing that you are doing something that's illegal? I mean, the most illegal thing I ever did was speed, or steal a pack of gum when I was a kid, or skip school. Or smoke pot. But to do something devious and well thought out gives me the chills. I also have little tolerance for discrimination. It makes me sick to see the way some white people treat black people. The way some people treat Jews, gays--it doesn't make sense to me at all.

[Q] Playboy: Was religion important to you growing up?

[A] Hilfiger: We were brought up Catholic. I hated going to Mass. It was a real pain. But now Susie and I practice because we want to at least give the children the opportunity. And now it means something much different, something spiritual, wholesome, good. But sitting in church with my eight brothers and sisters between my father and mother wasn't a fun Sunday for me.

[Q] Playboy: Are you politically oriented?

[A] Hilfiger: No, I wouldn't want to get caught up in politics. It's a false world. I don't know if there's a politician I really trust, who is in it to help this country. I've met the Clintons. They're nice people. I know they work hard. I think their hearts are in the right place. Bill Bradley is a fine gentleman and I think his heart is in the right place. But I don't know. To me it's a big complicated saga. And my life is complicated enough.

[Q] Playboy: Why does the idea of wearing a designer's name on the outside of one's clothes appeal to so many people?

[A] Hilfiger: It has to do with status, which is very much a part of all of our lives, young or old. The name Tommy Hilfiger became important to young people, so they wanted to show others that they were wearing it. Some people wanted to show others that they could afford it. Some wanted to show they were cool.

[Q] Playboy: What about the oversize logos?

[A] Hilfiger: We had shops in some department stores, but others just had our clothes on racks. Some stores put up your sign and some don't. So I thought, The hell with stores if they don't want to put up my signs. My signs will be in the form of clothes. When I first showed these clothes to my partners and people on my team, the response wasn't positive. Generally the response was, Who the hell would wear that stuff? And I said, "Well, some people will wear it, but it'll also serve as signage in the stores." So it began to go up on mannequins as signage in the stores, but it also flew off the shelves. All the street kids started picking up on it. Fashion is not about going to Paris and stealing an idea from one of the couture designers and making it here in the States. It's about the street. It's about real people.

[Q] Playboy: How did American men become so fashion conscious?

[A] Hilfiger: We've had the greatest teachers in the world. Women have taught us how to shop, and how important it is to buy new items all the time, to freshen either our look or our wardrobe. They have taught us to be status conscious and to get rid of something if it looks the least bit tattered or worn. Also, advertising and the media have addicted us to consumerism, which is great for me.

[Q] Playboy: What do you know about the working conditions overseas where your clothing gets manufactured?

[A] Hilfiger: I'll talk about company philosophy and how it relates to that. When Silas Chou and [Tommy Hilfiger director] Lawrence Stroll taught us how to think big, they also taught us that the only way to succeed in a big way is to surround yourself with professionals. And if you have a choice between an A player and a B player, always go with the A player. So it costs you more. It doesn't matter. You're going to get further ahead. So our lawyers are the best lawyers in the industry. Our accountants are the best. Our Wall Street bankers are the best. We put our people in the best hotels. We choose the best buttons for our garments. We take the high road. Always. So we've aligned ourselves with manufacturers who are the most prestigious and expensive in the world. They control all their production, whether it's in Malaysia or Taiwan, Korea, Jamaica or the U.S. And we buy packages from these people. We don't own our own sewing machines. We don't own our own factories. At the same time, this child-labor topic has been so hot we have been perhaps overly cautious in avoiding it. In a factory in Bangladesh, for instance, we have a team of people who sit there and watch. If they find something that isn't right they report it to us immediately. If we've been in factories where we've found that there are 24-hour illegal shifts going on, or child labor, we'll pull out. We don't want to be put on the grill like Kathie Lee Gifford and Nike were. We can't afford that. Will it ever happen that somebody walks into one of the factories in the middle of the night and finds a 13-year-old? Maybe, but if we can control it in any way, we will. And we're willing to pay higher prices to do that.

[Q] Playboy: You have more money than you'll ever need, and last year you were named menswear fashion designer of the year. Is success still an issue?

[A] Hilfiger: You always want to make success an issue. Once you make it a nonissue you become complacent. And I don't want that to happen. I always want to look at success as being an important issue in my life. I never want to sit back and think I've made it.

[Q] Playboy: Tell us about your friendship with Mick Jagger.

[A] Hilfiger: Well, we just know each other. Susan and I own a house next door to his on Mustique. And prior to buying our home, we stayed in his.

[Q] Playboy: Have you ever talked with him about marketing and fashion?

[A] Hilfiger: I've learned a lot from Mick. Here's a guy who has persevered and weathered many storms. He had this goal, achieved it, has rebuilt and achieved it again. He continues to float into the horizon. I've also had interesting talks with David Bowie about being onstage, being on tour and making music, stuff like that.

[Q] Playboy: David Bowie is as much an image maker as he is a musician.

[A] Hilfiger: It is about marketing. But it's also about talent and intelligence. I've talked with him a lot about that. It's not too different from what fashion designers do. The only difference is that they make records and I make clothes.

[Q] Playboy: Can everybody be hip?

[A] Hilfiger: No, but everybody doesn't want to be hip. Only a small percentage of the population wants to be hip. It's very odd in Cleveland or elsewhere outside New York City. The ratio, outside places like Soho, is probably 99 percent classic or traditional, one percent hip.

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The population in general leans toward the look I have on, conservative and classic versus black Prada or Gucci. That said, we are the hip of this traditional look, which is a good place to be. If young people are going back to school, back to college, they want our clothes. Urban, athletic kids want our clothes. Asians love our clothes. The girl who's buying her boyfriend something chooses our brand. The Gap and Banana Republic are also great concepts, but they don't have the designer name.

[Q] Playboy: Armani Exchange?

[A] Hilfiger: I don't think Armani Exchange has the right product.

[Q] Playboy: Who else, besides Ralph Lauren, is your competition?

[A] Hilfiger: Calvin is in the fragrance, underwear and jeans business in a big way. I'm in the fragrance and jeans business in a big way, and my underwear business is growing. So, yes, we're definitely in competition. But I don't see myself as being in competition with Donna Karan. Maybe the DKNY line crosses. Nautica does a nice job. I don't think they're original, though.

[Q] Playboy: What is the story behind your signature--the green buttonhole in the upper corner of the shirt pocket?

[A] Hilfiger: The green buttonhole was originally found on the uniforms of workingmen, gas-station attendants and mechanics. It was a place for a pen. I wanted my clothing to be more working-man oriented from the beginning.

[Q] Playboy: What about the crest?

[A] Hilfiger: I wanted a more regal label for the exterior, so I designed that. My father's lineage in Bavaria and Switzerland had something to do with that, but I simply developed one based on what I thought mine should look like. At that point, I didn't like the idea of putting initials on a shirt, or an animal, but I thought the crest was Ivy League, regal, more upscale.

[Q] Playboy: It's interesting--the contrast of working-class with regal.

[A] Hilfiger: I like contrasts.

[Q] Playboy: What about the flag?

[A] Hilfiger: I love nautical flags. And then it's a cross between a T and an H semaphore. I love red, white and blue. That, to me, is a strong, global, modern, clean corporate logo I will have forever.

[Q] Playboy: In the end, what does going to rock concerts and dropping acid have to do with today's Tommy Hilfiger?

[A] Hilfiger: You had to experience all that stuff at that time and place in order to understand the culture. And a lot of what I do today revolves around understanding pop culture.

[Q] Playboy: How?

[A] Hilfiger: We live in a world that has become a small village. We live in a specific region--the United States of America-- that is all about people from different walks of life and the cultures they've brought with them--from China, or Africa, or Germany, or France, or England. If we put them all into a blender we get what is and should be popular culture today. Look at African Americans, what they've brought to this party. Think about if John Lee Hooker and Muddy Waters and Bo Diddley hadn't played their music. English rock and roll never would have had the spin it has. Think of the Japanese. We wouldn't have Sony TVs. Look at the Latins--the music, the dancing. Look at the Olympics, the sports we've been able to enjoy as a result of so many incredible athletes around the world. And then look at the heritage that the English brought. We'd be wearing button-down-collar shirts if it weren't for the English. And the French, the sensuousness. Then the American Indians. The Navajo--turquoise jewelry, rugs. All these things are a result of us living in this melting pot. Now, if we can enjoy all those things as opposed to looking down on them, it enhances all of us. Artists take culture and make it pop culture. David Bowie. Andy Warhol. Keith Haring. Bruce Springsteen. The New York Dolls. Jimi Hendrix. Mickey Mantle. Marilyn Monroe. We live with all this great popular stuff that forms our culture. Now we're listening to LL Cool J rap about a certain lifestyle. We're listening to alternative bands out of Seattle screaming about their lives. And then U2 goes on tour and begins to put a different spin on it. We're almost infected with all this culture, and if we view it in a positive way, it can be helpful. If we view it in a negative way, it can be detrimental because negativity is infectious.

[Q] Playboy: It seems like all this has exceeded your wildest dreams. What have you not done yet that you would like to do?

[A] Hilfiger: Well, that's wrong. It has not exceeded my wildest dreams, because I'm a dreamer. What I want to do next is set up a separate division here and do television, Internet, videos, books, records, CDs--I want to do a whole multimedia thing. My mind wanders and goes way, way out in front. And I know everything I imagine will happen because I have their support and I know that they believe in my ideas. It's the best feeling in the world to have the possibility-- strong, in this case--of your dream coming true. But even if it does, I will not be satisfied.

Gianni Versace had such connections with music and fashion. He inspired a lot of big names to step out and get on the edge.