Playboy's 20 Q: Joe Morgan

baseball's scholar-athlete swings away at money, minorities and malicious los angeles cops

A complete list of Joe Morgan's records, awards and statistical accomplishments for his 21 years of major league baseball would probably dwarf the player. Though his physical stature (5'7", 150 pounds) earned him the handle "Little Joe," Morgan was in fact the spark plug of Cincinnati's Big Red Machine, as feared an assemblage of baseball talent as any one team ever enjoyed.

Far from being overshadowed by Johnny Bench and Pete Rose, Morgan was the team's offensive and defensive linchpin. He was only the second guy in National League history to receive two consecutive most valuable player awards (1975 and 1976). Blessed with both speed and power, he was the first player to steal 60 bases while hitting more than 25 home runs (1973) and also the first to do so twice (1976).

He was the first second baseman to play 2000 games, hit 200 homers and get 2000 hits. He finished third in career walks behind Babe Ruth and Ted Williams. He was named to ten All-Star teams, won five Gold-Gloves and set records for most career homers and consecutive errorless games at his position. He was elected to the Hall of Fame as soon as he was eligible, in 1990, and now sits on its board.

Morgan finished his playing career in 1984 with his hometown team, the Oakland Athletics, and briefly fell into the pattern of a retired ballplayer: He wrote his autobiography (Joe Morgan: A Life in Baseball), ran a beer distributorship (Coors) and tried his hand at sports announcing.

The broadcast booth is where most ex-jocks hit the wall, but Morgan's obsession with detail and strategy earned him a reputation as the most insightful and astute baseball analyst on TV, a status formally recognized with a Sports Emmy in 1997. The ultimate inside baseball guy ("The most intelligent player I ever saw," said Sparky Anderson), Morgan currently works games for both NBC and ESPN.

Playboy Contributor Robert S. Wieder interviewed Morgan in his office in California. "The centerpiece wasn't a trophy case, but a globe the size of a harbor buoy. There were few baseball memorabilia, and other than a life-size photo of his Hall of Fame plaque, there's almost nothing to indicate his impact and stature as a player. All the sports photos were of Morgan in anonymous golf foursomes. From a writer's perspective, his ultimate stroke of self-effacement was that his bookcase didn't hold a copy of his book Baseball for Dummies."

1

[Q] Playboy: Will anyone top 70 home runs?

[A] Morgan: Maybe, but 70 is just a number. Put that in the proper context. I've seen Johnny Bench hit a home run in the bottom of the ninth inning to tie the fifth game of the playoffs. What's more important, the 70 home runs or that one? I've seen a lot of great things in this game. I was at second base the day Hank Aaron hit his 714th home run and he trotted by me. I saw Pete Rose get the hit that broke Ty Cobb's hit record. But I've seen guys get to 40-something home runs with a chance to get to 60, and the bottom falls out. I've seen guys get to 50 and then nothing. When McGwire and Sosa got to 55, they just kept going. If Ken Griffey or Albert Belle don't do it this year, then I don't think anyone will approach 70, or 66, for a long time.

2

[Q] Playboy: When McGwire broke the record, Sosa hugged him. If this were the Seventies and one of these guys were playing for the Reds, wouldn't you and Pete Rose have kicked his ass for kissing up to the enemy?

[A] Morgan: I said so on the air. I was broadcasting that game. I saw that home run. Sosa came in and hugged him. Mark Grace shook his hand as he went by. I looked at the pitcher, standing there dejected, and I'm thinking, This is your teammate, and you're congratulating somebody for hitting a home run off him? When Hank Aaron hit his 714th home run, I wanted to say something, but I wouldn't. I'm not going to embarrass my teammate, Jack Billingham. I'm old school, I guess. When a guy hits a home run now, he flips the bat, stands there and looks at it. But I can't criticize them, because that's how the game is played today. There's no intimidation anymore. Pitchers don't knock somebody down just for the sake of knocking them down. It's different from the way I was taught the game.

3

[Q] Playboy: What rule changes would you like to see?

[A] Morgan: If a pitcher hits a batter, the pitcher shouldn't be allowed to walk off the mound toward the batter. That's inviting something. And things could be more exciting if there were no infield fly rule. Instead of having an automatic out when the ball is popped up, a fielder could let it drop and try to get a double play. Everyone running, helter-skelter, they could throw the ball away. I think it would be interesting.

4

[Q] Playboy: Would you say that baseball players in general are insanely overpaid, obscenely overpaid or just ridiculously overpaid?

[A] Morgan: In some cases, all three, in terms of value. But I don't agree that baseball players are overpaid in general. Baseball is still the cheapest ticket in sports. Movie stars make $20 million to do a movie. They get more if the movie is successful. The players who are entertaining and who bring the fans to the stadiums deserve as much as they can get. Barry Bonds works out every day in the off-season. McGwire and those guys work their tails off, because they want to stay around longer for the money.

(continued on page 160)Joe Morgan(continued from page 117)

Players today are in better shape than ever, because they work at it all year round. But Sparky Anderson said something a long time ago: "Money doesn't really change people. If you were a bad guy before you made all this money, you're still going to be a bad guy. If you were a good guy, you're still going to be a good guy." In most cases, he's correct.

5

[Q] Playboy: Income divides the majors into have and have-not clubs. Will they ultimately have to split into a two-tier system of big-market teams and small-market teams just to be competitive?

[A] Morgan: If it happens, Americans will pull for the underdogs. Money doesn't mean you're going to win. Everybody talks about how the Marlins spent millions to buy the championship. But they beat three teams with higher payrolls. They spent their money more wisely that year. Last year, the Orioles were next to the Yankees in payroll, but they were never a factor. You can win without having to spend $80 million. You just have to be smarter. If you have $80 million, you can throw things against the wall and see what sticks. If you have $40 million, you have to make sure they're going to stick.

6

[Q] Playboy: Are there ballplayers you'd like to whack upside the head and tell them to stop being such assholes and just be grateful they get to play this game?

[A] Morgan: I'll tell you, the most fun for me as a player was to stand around the batting cage. We'd joke around and get on each other and laugh and yell at the other team. Then, about three years ago, I noticed the players weren't having as much fun laughing and joking like they used to. I'd hear complaints more than anything else. A guy making three or four million, saying, "Man, I should be playing more. I'm sitting on the bench." The worst thing I ever heard was, "Man, the bus was late today." A guy making $5 million and the bus is five minutes late. Big deal.

7

[Q] Playboy: Is TV wagging the game of baseball these days?

[A] Morgan: I don't think so, because if it were, there would be better matchups. You'd have the Yankees on more. Television can't dictate who's playing on Saturday and can only use teams a certain number of times. In the NBA, you saw Michael Jordan at least once a week. Baseball doesn't do that, and I think in some cases they're wrong. Baseball is very lucky that Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa did what they did last year.

8

[Q] Playboy: Would you have played for Marge Schott?

[A] Morgan: Yes, because, first and foremost, I played for my family. I would have tried to change her thinking, and I would have spoken out against everything she said and stood for. But yes, I would have played, because the game is bigger than Marge Schott. I wouldn't have let her ruin my career or my team.

9

[Q] Playboy: We have to ask: 1998 Yankees versus 1976 Reds, who wins?

[A] Morgan: The Reds were a better team, but it's apples and oranges. Times have changed. The Reds led the major leagues in home runs that year, and we hit only 141. The Yankees hit 207 last year and they were seventh. The ball is livelier now, and the ballparks are smaller. And the pitching definitely isn't as good overall. That Reds team would probably hit 280 now, they were that good. Johnny Bench, George Foster, Tony Perez, every one of those guys would hit 45 to 55 home runs. I don't want to compare myself to anybody, but I'm in the Hall of Fame, Bench is in the Hall of Fame, Perez is going to make the Hall and Rose is a Hall of Famer, we all know that. Are the Yankees going to have anybody make the Hall of Fame? Derek Jeter has the best chance, but where else are you going to get a Hall of Famer on that team? Except now they have Roger Clemens.

10

[Q] Playboy: Do you think Pete Rose belongs in Cooperstown?

[A] Morgan: Pete and I were the two closest guys on the team. I lockered next to him for nine years. There's never been anyone I ever played with or against that played the way he did. He played every single game like it was the seventh game of the World Series. I didn't play it that way. There are days when you're just not all there. I never saw him when he wasn't all there. But I'm also on the board of directors of the Hall of Fame. My duty as a board member is to uphold the integrity of the game. I take that seriously, and from that standpoint Pete did not deserve to be in. Personally, I believe he needed to be punished for what he did, and he has been punished. If Pete Rose were to stand up in front of America and say, "I made a mistake and I'm sorry," then I would say yes. But until he does, I'm sorry.

11

[Q] Playboy: Why have Hispanics become the predominant minority in baseball?

[A] Morgan: Dollars and cents. Latin players try to get to the U.S. because this is where the money is. They have tryout camps and clinics in Latin countries that bring hundreds of kids in every day, keep them for a day or two, feed them, pick out the best ones and send the others home. The reason African Americans are disappearing is that they no longer have bird-dog scouts. Frank Robinson, Vada Pinson, Willie Stargell--a lot of guys came from the Bay Area because of bird-dog scouts who would see them and go tell other scouts. Then baseball went to the combine system. Basically, most American players now come from colleges, and fewer African Americans play baseball in college because college baseball is kind of elitist. You don't get the scholarships. Your family has to have money to pick up your tab. If they don't, you can't play college baseball unless you're there on another athletic scholarship. The African American in the inner city gets squeezed out.

12

[Q] Playboy: These days, kids of every race seem to want to be basketball players. What's that about?

[A] Morgan: There are fewer organized baseball games in the cities now. Basketball you can play by yourself, you don't have to be organized, you just walk over to the park and play. It takes a group to play baseball. You don't just walk to the baseball diamond and hope that somebody's there.

13

[Q] Playboy: After you retired, you kept a promise to your mother and graduated from college with a major in physical education. A Hall of Famer and two-time MVP, majoring in PE? Talk about a ringer. Didn't you feel guilty about raising the curve?

[A] Morgan: Actually I majored in business my first three years, but I could graduate sooner in PE. I learned more about business in baseball than I did in school, because business is about dealing with people, getting them motivated.

14

[Q] Playboy: We now have Senator Jim Bunning, congressmen Steve Largent and J.C. Watts, Governor Jesse Ventura. The jock politician concept seems to be hot. Ever thought of throwing your cap into the ring?

[A] Morgan: Actually, George Bush and I are close friends. I knew George long before he ran for president; he was just a guy in Texas. Well, he's never been just a guy. He always said I should be in politics, because we used to argue back and forth. One of our great arguments was about busing. I said the only way this country will ever move forward is for kids to have the same education and the same chance and to learn to deal with each other at an early age, before they've built up their prejudices. Eventually, I prevailed. I made him understand. We traveled together when he was running for president. One time we were campaigning right after somebody had shot at some politician, and I'm kind of off to the side, not intentionally, and George says, "Come on up here, Joe." Out of the blue, I said, "No, George, the guy's aim might be bad." We laughed about it, because he had a bulletproof vest on. I'm not a Republican--when George was vice president, I never went to see Reagan--but we had a great relationship and still do.

15

[Q] Playboy: You're regarded as one of TV's smartest baseball analysts. Do you have to be wary of getting into such detailed technicalities that listeners tune out?

[A] Morgan: I have to control it. I try to act like I'm sitting in your house with you, your wife, your son, maybe even your daughter. Part of the game, I'm going to talk to you; you know a lot about the game. Another part, I'm talking to your wife, who knows a little bit. Another part, I'm talking to your son, being more instructional. Another part, I'm talking to the little girl, trying to tell her why this game is fun to watch. I'm pleased that I've gotten more letters from ladies than from men, saying they understand the game better from listening to me. It's my job to make sure that I connect with all those viewers. I've had people say it's like sitting next to me at a ball game, and that's the highest compliment I can get.

16

[Q] Playboy: When you were first doing games for NBC, did you ever wish you had a button you could push to drop Bob Uecker into a tank of cold mush?

[A] Morgan: I think Bob Uecker helped make me a better announcer. I've always taken the game too seriously, because it was my livelihood. Bob doesn't take anything too seriously, and from working with him I think I can laugh about things, where before, I'd get mad when I saw something dumb.

17

[Q] Playboy: What's the most annoying thing about ballplayers you never realized until you became a broadcaster?

[A] Morgan: How slow they are, and how into themselves some of them are, putting on a show just getting to the batter's box. The game is too long now, and it's the dead time that makes it long. The catcher walking out to the mound five times for each hitter. Batters taking so much time to come out of the dugout to get the right bat. The game needs to be played at a brisk pace.

18

[Q] Playboy: You were manhandled by the LAPD in a case of mistaken identity in 1988, and you wound up winning a large lawsuit against the city. When O.J. Simpson was acquitted, did your experience afford you a reply to those who asked, "How could any jury find him not guilty?"

[A] Morgan: Yes. From what the Los Angeles Police did to me, how they lied and tried to change evidence, part of me said that some of them could have done some of the things the lawyers said they did. I was standing in a phone booth. They said I was running through the airport making animal noises. The only thing that saved me was a witness standing next to me who had flown on the plane with me. If I don't have his verification, I'm just another black guy they grabbed and jostled. At the trial they said they thought I was a drug dealer. They lied about so many different things. So, yes, I told my wife, "I don't know whether O.J. did it or not, but I do know that these guys will lie and do anything to get a conviction."

19

[Q] Playboy: What in fact happened?

[A] Morgan: I'm at the phone booth, putting the phone to my ear. A guy grabs me by the shoulder and says, "I'm LA Police and you're a drug dealer." The guy next to me at the phone booth says, "Officer, that's Joe Morgan, the baseball player. I just came down on the plane with him." His exact words to that guy were, "Shut up and get away from here before I take you to jail with him." The guy is a schoolteacher, so he stands off to the side and watches. Then the cop says, "I want you to go with us." I said, "Where?" He pointed over my shoulder, so I turned. He grabs me and puts his knee in my back, puts me on the ground. I don't fight, because I know you can't win. There's two of them. I said, "Why are you doing this?" His answer was, "I'm an authority figure. You've been up against us before." He was saying, I'm a police officer and you're black. I'm the boss.

And the things they said at the trial. My lawyer asked, "Even if he had been running through the airport, so what?" They said, "Well, that's the m.o. of a drug dealer." Calling attention to himself, running through the airport? So my guy says, "How do you distinguish which guys running through the airport are drug dealers?" He said, "I get them all." My lawyer says, "You mean to tell me that you arrest every person you see running through the airport?" He said, "Yes," because he didn't want to say he arrested me because I'm black.

It was an experience for me. The most helpless feeling was to be handcuffed with my hands behind me. When they picked me up, I asked him again why he was doing it. So to keep me from talking he put his hand over my nose and my mouth. That's their technique. You're handcuffed and you can't breathe.

20

[Q] Playboy: You share the view that the 1975 World Series is the best one ever played--but is it still the greatest Series if the Red Sox win?

[A] Morgan: If they win it in the same fashion. I think the fact that we came back in the seventh game, with nine outs to go, after they came back in game six with nine outs to go, put it on the map. And I think a lot of the greatness has to do with the imposing personalities that were there--Pete Rose, Carl Yastrzemski, Carlton Fisk--people who weren't afraid of the spotlight. I wanted to hit in the seventh game, ninth inning. I was hoping they'd walk Pete intentionally. Bench was probably hoping they'd walk me. That's the kind of personalities you had in that series. Fisk wanted to be the guy when he hit the home run. That World Series brought baseball back.