Playboy Interview: Jesse Ventura

It's 11 o'clock Friday morning and Jesse Ventura is at the microphone, headphones on, at Minneapolis radio station WCCO. He's preparing to spend an hour over the airwaves with his constituents. It's Lunch With the Governor, and the press and TV reporters are also there—they follow his every public move because, as one cameraman states, "You never know what Jesse is going to say." He begins with a tirade about lawn darts and how the federal government has banned them. "You can go down to your local gun dealer and buy a .44 magnum, but you can't buy a lawn dart," he says. "That's not my law, that's the federal law." He then takes on the movement to tear down the 17-year-old Metrodome, which could be replaced with a new stadium. After the show he talks to a journalist who asks him again about the stadium issue. He realizes that a new stadium will become a huge issue "because you run the risk of losing your professional teams to this blackmail." And he knows if that happens the governor will get blamed. "But you know what? This governor don't care. This governor will stand by his principles. I could understand building a new stadium if this stadium was 35 years old; but you didn't hear one complaint when we won the World Series in 1987 and 1991. Then they called it the Dome-field advantage. Now all of a sudden: 'We can't compete here.' They've got businesses that are out of whack like baseball, and then they think building a stadium is going to put them back in competition? If stadiums were a good deal, the private sector would be building them."

On the drive back to his office he takes a call from a Newsweek reporter who has the presidency and the control of the Reform Party on his mind. "I'm not trying to wrest control over anything," the governor—currently the party's most powerful member—tells him. "I have the state of Minnesota to run. My priority is not to control the Reform Party. I just feel it's time for some new leadership. We have to move beyond Mr. Perot." A few weeks later, Ventura's handpicked candidate, Jack Gargan, took over as the party's new chairman. That gives Ventura a big voice on who the Reform Party will run for president. "It's important for us to have a viable, fairly well-known candidate. I think a candidate like myself could come in through the back door and take the election. I never led the polls in Minnesota at all, and at the primary six weeks before the general election I was polling only ten percent. They have polls right now that have me in the 20s, and I'm not even a candidate. That's one out of five people saying they'd vote for me—and I'm not running. But I will finish my job as governor because I'd be a hypocrite if I turned around and ran for president."

This election year, Jesse Ventura is not running for president. Not yet, anyway. But his opinion is sought by the national press. He's a frequent guest or subject of conversation on all the major political talk shows, from Rivera Live to Meet the Press, as well as a late-night talk show favorite. What Governor Jesse Ventura, formerly known as the wrestler Jesse "the Body" Ventura (and before that as Jim Janos), former Navy Seal, nightclub bouncer, bodyguard, biker, ring announcer, actor and mayor has to say about gun control or the legalization of marijuana or prostitution or his opinion of the Democratic and Republican parties has become newsworthy. He ran for governor last year as a Reform Party candidate against two professional politicians, Democratic State Attorney General Hubert "Skip" Humphrey III (son of former vice president Hubert Humphrey) and the Republican mayor of St.Paul, Norm Coleman. Ventura's surprising victory "shocked the world," a phrase he borrowed from his idol Muhammad Ali. And his performance during his first year in office has continued to surprise many who predicted he would fall flat on his face once he had to actually govern.

His approval rating has remained high, especially as he secured a permanent income-tax cut and made good on his promise of a sales-tax rebate to taxpayers. But his critics complain that he is capitalizing on his name and fame while serving as governor. The advance for his book I Ain't Got Time to Bleed was in the mid six figures. His return to the World Wrestling Federation as a referee for a pay-per-view event last August may have paid him even more. (Although he donated his up-front fee of $100,000 to charity, he received a percentage of videotape sales and compensation for the use of his name.) At the American Century Celebrity Golf Championship, Ventura declared himself a professional and was paid just over $1000 for his last-place finish. The Minneapolis Star Tribune estimates that Ventura may have earned as much as $2 million to $3 million in outside income during the first eight months of his term. "It's one thing to promote your own book," observes Steven Schier, chairman of the political science department at Carleton College. "It's another thing to hire yourself out to a private corporation to promote its event while you're the full-time salaried governor of Minnesota. This is an ethical line that should not be crossed." The governor defends himself by saying he does not earn outside money on government time, that he does so on weekends and in the evenings, and that what he does should be taken "with a grain of salt and a gleam in the eye."

His defenders believe that Ventura has injected a new spirit into politics. Ohio Republican Governor Bob Taft believes Ventura is "bringing more national attention to governors than we've ever had before." Arizona Senator John McCain says he admires Ventura "enormously for telling the truth and having some rational ideas." Former Minnesota congressman Tim Penny has said, "The reason serious-minded, altruistic people agreed to work for Ventura is that he has made politics meaningful again." And the legions of young people who logged onto various Ventura websites greatly contributed to getting others involved in his election.

Growing up in a middle-class family in south Minneapolis, Jim Janos had strict parents, George and Bernice, who both served in World War II. George Janos had been in a tank-destroyer battalion under General George Patton; Bernice served as an Army nurse in North Africa. Of the two boys (Jim and older brother Jan), Jim was the extrovert. Jim and his friends liked to make trouble in school, started drinking beer in junior high and favored sports over academics (Jim was a star swimmer). When Jan joined the Navy Seals, Jim followed in 1969. By the time he was 19 he was sent overseas and spent a lot of time drinking, whoring and misbehaving in Olongapo in the Philippines. During four years as a Seal he learned to make explosives, rappel from helicopters and feel as comfortable as a dolphin underwater. Then he left the Navy and rode with a California biker gang, the Mongols, for nine months. In 1974 he returned to Minnesota, where he enrolled in North Hennepin Community College and took some acting classes. He married Terry Masters, a teenager he met while he was checking IDs at a bar, the Rusty Nail. While working as a bouncer, he attended his first professional wrestling event. Impressed with the way a good wrestler could control the crowd, he joined a gym where wrestlers worked out. He soon became a pro wrestler and for long months traveled the circuit, making $35 to $65 a match while building a name for himself as Jesse "the Body" Ventura. Eventually he became a headliner with long bleached hair, wearing feather boas, earrings and glittering sunglasses. The more people booed him, the more popular he became. But in 1984, just before he was slated to wrestle the sport's biggest star, Hulk Hogan, blood clots were discovered in his lungs, and he was forced to quit wrestling. The WWF, not wanting to lose his outrageous mouth, hired him as a ringside announcer. (His relationship with the WWF has been stormy. Ventura sued in 1991, claiming the WWF was marketing his image without his permission. Despite the bad blood, he returned to the WWF in August to referee Summer Slam.)

When Hollywood needed a strong body to help hunt down an evil alien, Ventura was cast in Predator (1987), which was followed by parts in The Running Man (1987), Repossessed (1990), Abraxas (1991), Demolition Man (1993), Major League II (1994) and Batman and Robin (1997). When a TV series he was to star in didn't pan out and he lost his job as a WWF announcer, he decided to run for mayor of Brooklyn Park, a Minneapolis suburb, over a personal issue—he was angry about a proposed sewer and housing project that threatened the wetlands near his home. He shocked everyone, including himself, by winning 63 percent of the vote in 1990.

We sent Contributing Editor Lawrence Grobel (whose last interview was with Nick Nolte) to the Minnesota state capital to spend a week with the governor. Grobel's report:

"What I found most refreshing about Governor Ventura was his willingness to defend his positions and attack his interrogators. During our first session, he was sizing me up. By the second day he had invited me to attend the funeral of his high school coach. During our third session he began challenging my positions on subjects I was asking him about. When we discussed handgun control, the governor called me a 'liberal weenie' for not believing every house should be equipped with weapons of destruction. He's an imposing man who's not easily intimidated, and he's convinced he has the aura that will take him to higher places. He also believes he has yet to reach whatever destiny has in store for him. It wouldn't surprise me at all if we'll be knocking at Ventura's door to interview him again, say, three years from now."

[Q] Playboy: Did you ever think that one day you would be the center of all this media attention?

[A] Ventura: No, because I worked in the world of wrestling, which is ridiculed. Nobody ever looks at wrestlers for the talent they have. Most people consider wrestling fans ignorant, and if they're intelligent they've had to live their lives like gay people—they've had to stay in the closet. They are fans of wrestling, but they wouldn't dare tell anyone.

[Q] Playboy: You're certainly being taken seriously now. How comfortable are you exchanging your feather boas and earrings for a tie and jacket?

[A] Ventura: Getting used to it. I wear a suit four days a week. Friday is my casual day—I come in wearing blue jeans, cowboy boots and a T-shirt. I dress up to bring dignity to the office. What I do here is an honor that's been given to me by the state. I don't know if I'll ever feel comfortable here, because it's the first office I've had. It's the first desk, really.

[Q] Playboy: How has becoming governor changed you?

[A] Ventura: I try to control my temper more. I try not to react as quickly as I did in my other careers, where it was acceptable. In this job anything you say will be used against you by the press and in the court of public opinion. You're not allowed to joke, or laugh. I do it anyway and I get in trouble for it all the time. I do my radio show every Friday, and when I go into my radio mode it's balls to the walls, no holds barred. When people attack me, I attack back. That's ruffling feathers, because generally a governor has to take it but can't dish it out. I've put myself in a position with my radio show to be able to dish it back, and they don't like that.

[Q] Playboy: What are the perks that can spoil a governor?

[A] Ventura: My chefs. I've got two of the best in the business.

[Q] Playboy: Do you ever cook?

[A] Ventura: No. I will make something in a blender and drink it. It's easy. No dishes. About the only thing I'll cook is soup—you cut it out of a can and stick it in the microwave.

[Q] Playboy: What's the best thing about being governor?

[A] Ventura: It's good to be the king. The best thing is that there's no one in this state who can tell me what to do.

[Q] Playboy: And the worst?

[A] Ventura: You become a slave. I can't go anywhere without guards. You become a prisoner of your own success.

[Q] Playboy: In the hierarchy of elected officials, which comes first, governor or U.S. senator?

[A] Ventura: The executive branch is higher. You can set your own rules, per se. As a senator you're just one of 100. As governor you're one of 50, and you're number one within the boundaries of your domain.

[Q] Playboy: What is most important for you to accomplish as governor?

[A] Ventura: To prove that I can govern now. The day after we won the election we all met in my kitchen and looked at each other and said, "What the hell do we do now?" No Reform Party candidate had ever won at a major level. There was no one there who knew what to do. My wife's best friend recommended Steven Bosacker to help me out. He had worked hard on [Independent Party candidate] John Anderson's campaign for president in 1980, and I voted for John Anderson. Bosacker came onboard to be my transition chief of staff and stayed on. It's one of the best decisions I've ever made.

[Q] Playboy: What's his job?

[A] Ventura: He's responsible for running and handling my entire administration. My job is somewhat of an oxymoron: I do everything and yet I do nothing. Steven is like the Ex-O in the military. I'm the commanding officer, but the executive officer in many ways runs the day-to-day operation.

[Q] Playboy: That sounds like the way Ronald Reagan governed, by being a good delegator.

[A] Ventura: I've been compared a lot to Reagan. I appoint experts in their fields as my commissioners and then I get out of the way. I have only a high school education, but I'm street smart, which can be more effective than college degrees. I operate under a rule I learned during my Seals training: Keep it simple and stupid. That's common sense.

[Q] Playboy: During your book tour you drew a larger crowd at the Nixon Library than Henry Kissinger or Newt Gingrich. Do you find that ironic?

[A] Ventura: Flattered that I've had that type of impact. The thing people need to ask is: Why is Jesse Ventura outdrawing Newt Gingrich or Henry Kissinger?

[Q] Playboy: Do you have an answer?

[A] Ventura: The answer is that people are searching for the truth, for someone they can truly believe in. The truth may not be what they want to hear, but they at least know they're getting it.

[Q] Playboy: How do you distinguish between the Republican, Democratic and Reform parties?

[A] Ventura: It's simple: I'm fiscally conservative, but I'm socially liberal. If you're a Republican you have to be fiscally and socially conservative. If you're a Democrat you have to be fiscally and socially liberal. I'm half of each, and that's the Reform Party.

[Q] Playboy: Governor George W. Bush and Vice President Al Gore are the front-runners for their parties' nominations. What's your take on them?

[A] Ventura: I met both George and the vice president and found them to be very nice. But all we're hearing about is Bush and Gore. The campaign started a year and half before the election. I'll be so sick of it by the time the election gets here, I'll want to throw up.

[Q] Playboy: Your opinion of Bill Bradley?

[A] Ventura: Pretty good basketball player.

[Q] Playboy: Pat Buchanan?

[A] Ventura: I respect him. He makes people think. He and I differ drastically on social issues, and that would hold him back from being the Reform Party nominee. Mr. Buchanan puts certain social issues like abortion on the front burner. We in the Reform Party do not. We don't even have abortion on our platform. It's not a political issue. It's been decided by the courts, and it should be challenged in the courts.

[Q] Playboy: Steve Forbes claims, like you, that he's a political outsider.

[A] Ventura: Steve Forbes has been wealthy his whole life. I don't like his flat tax—we already have that; it's called Social Security and look what a mess that's in. I like a national sales tax. It would put the government on a direct budget with the economy, so it would be imperative for the government to work to keep the economy good. Right now the government couldn't care less, because they get your money first.

[Q] Playboy: You're a big supporter of Colin Powell, once saying that if he ran for president you'd run for vice president with him. What's so great about Powell?

[A] Ventura: General Powell and I are alike. We have differences: He supports affirmative action, I don't. But he's fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I find him to be a powerful leader. One doesn't get to be chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff not knowing how to lead. It would be hard for me to accept orders from anyone today, but I could accept orders from him. I've only met him once, but I'm pretty good on first impressions.

[Q] Playboy: If you decided to run for president, what would be your game plan?

[A] Ventura: My plan would be to stay out of it until next July. I would let Gore and Bush hang each other with all the rope they have, to the point where the public can't stand either of them. Their disapproval ratings would skyrocket. Then you enter the race three months before the election and take the whole thing. All it is is gaining that momentum at the right time, like I did here in Minnesota. We peaked perfectly and they couldn't stop us when it happened. The other two candidates didn't even see it coming.

[Q] Playboy: Let's talk about issues. Can we clear up what you said and what you meant after the shootings at Columbine High School in Littleton? You suggested that more guns—specifically, concealed weapons—would have enabled students and faculty to defend themselves and prevent the massacre.

[A] Ventura: That is not what I said. My simple statement was: Had there been a licensed conceal-and-carry in the building, lives would likely have been saved.

[Q] Playboy: Wasn't there already an armed guard in the school?

[A] Ventura: Where was he? What do we value more today, our children or our money? Most people would say the children, but that's not true. We put money in banks. Banks are guarded by armed guards to make sure our money isn't touched, stolen or misused. We put our children in schools and protect them with nothing.

[Q] Playboy: So we should put armed guards in all our schools?

[A] Ventura: Maybe. It's something we need to look at. The two terrorists went into that school and assassinated all those children and there was no one there to stop them. You can't negotiate with people like that. You take them out.

[Q] Playboy: Is there anything that could change your mind about the right to bear arms?

[A] Ventura: Nope. Our forefathers put it in there so the general citizenry has the ability to combat an oppressive government. It's not in there to make sure I can go hunting on weekends. I don't deer hunt, by the way. That's not really hunting. I prefer when the opposition can shoot back—then you're hunting.

[Q] Playboy: Do you carry a gun?

[A] Ventura: Hardly ever. I'm licensed to, but I only carry one when I'm by myself.

[Q] Playboy: Why do so many people kill other people with guns?

[A] Ventura: Because it's an easy tool to use. If that tool were eliminated they would use something else. There weren't guns when Cain killed Abel. You want to know my definition of gun control? Being able to stand there at 25 meters and put two rounds in the same hole. That's gun control. The gun control people don't know what they're talking about.

[Q] Playboy: When you were a wrestling announcer, you called Koko B. Ware, a black wrestler, "Buckwheat," referred to Tito Santana as "Chico" and described the moves of another black wrestler, the Junk Yard Dog, as "a lot of shuckin' and jivin'." Have these phrases come back to haunt you?

[A] Ventura: No. It's wrestling. When I participated in it, it was built on stereotypes. Every Japanese wrestler threw salt and was sneaky, every German wrestler was a Nazi, every Russian a communist. How could anyone possibly look at wrestling and say, "This is what he believes in?" It's entertainment. My job was to irritate people. Another of my infamous wrestling quotes was, "Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat." And some people drum that up today like it's some policy. All of a sudden wrestling's real to them? C'mon.

[Q] Playboy: Something else you've said is that college athletes should be exempt from taking classes so they can concentrate on games. How much flak did you take for making that statement?

[A] Ventura: My point is, the way the system is set up now invites cheating. You've got college athletes in Minnesota playing one level below professional. They have to bust their butts, and when someone offers to write a term paper for them, do you think they're not going to take it?

[Q] Playboy: So you're saying that we should redefine the college experience? That athletes don't have to take classes, they just have to play ball?

[A] Ventura: You're doggone right! If you go to college to play football, why don't they teach you how to deal with agents? Schools should prepare these kids for what they're going to do.

[Q] Playboy: How do you feel about protesters who burn the American flag?

[A] Ventura: If you buy the flag it's yours to burn.

[Q] Playboy: Many people believe it was a mistake to eliminate the draft. Do you?

[A] Ventura: The draft was utterly ridiculous. It was the most unfair, bogus piece of crap ever put together. Because who got drafted? If you're going to have a draft there should be no deferments. The way the draft was in the Sixties and early Seventies, if you went to college you got out of it. Why was that a determining factor?

[Q] Playboy: Wasn't the idea that the country needs to develop young minds?

[A] Ventura: Oh really? And the country doesn't need auto mechanics? Maintenance people? Laborers have to face the draft, but others can go hide in college? See, I got bitter toward that. If you didn't have money, you couldn't hide in college. The only people getting drafted were the poor.

[Q] Playboy: What do you think of gays in the military?

[A] Ventura: Who am I to tell someone they can or cannot serve their country? I couldn't care less if the person next to me is gay as long as he gets the job done.

[Q] Playboy: Would you support or oppose recognizing gay marriage in Minnesota?

[A] Ventura: I would oppose it. Look up the word marriage in the dictionary. It says it's between a man and a woman. Now, I don't oppose gay people forming some type of legal bonding, but you can't use the word marriage.

[Q] Playboy: Why aren't you concerned with crime?

[A] Ventura: Because that's a local issue and I don't believe in micromanagement. Sure I'm concerned about it, but it's not the governor's job to handle it. That's for mayors, city councils. I'm not going to sit here and be a typical politician [bangs his desk] and say, "I'm going to fight crime." Half these guys wouldn't know crime if it bit them on the ass.

[Q] Playboy: How about the death penalty?

[A] Ventura: I don't support the death penalty. In the private sector I did, but not as governor. I wouldn't want the responsibility of sending someone to his death. Minnesota doesn't have a death penalty, so it doesn't matter to me. But on the flip side, what bothers me is that life in prison isn't life in prison. Why are you eligible for parole after seven years? Life should be life. And there should be no three strikes. Should be one strike.

[Q] Playboy: That's a little rough.

[A] Ventura: No it isn't. If you commit murder, rape or any other crime, why do you get to do it three times before you go?

[Q] Playboy: What about drug crimes?

[A] Ventura: That's consensual crime. People who commit consensual crimes shouldn't go to jail. We shouldn't even prosecute them. That's crime against yourself. Drugs and prostitution, those should not be imprisoning crimes. The government has much more important things to do.

[Q] Playboy: Would you legalize those types of activities?

[A] Ventura: Nevada has. Nevada has legalized prostitution like the old West and they don't seem to have any big problems. It doesn't seem to create a hostile atmosphere. My wife and I were in the heart of Amsterdam's red-light district, where there are drugs, open prostitution and pornography. Yet amazingly, at ten at night, we saw a busload of senior citizens out for a walking tour. If it's not illegal, chances are there's no violence. See, we call our country home of the brave and land of the free, but it's not. We give a false portrayal of freedom. We're not free—if we were, we'd allow people their freedom. Prohibiting something doesn't make it go away. Prostitution is criminal, and bad things happen because it's run illegally by dirtbags who are criminals. If it's legal, then the girls could have health checks, unions, benefits, anything any other worker gets, and it would be far better.

[Q] Playboy: This isn't a very popular position in America, is it?

[A] Ventura: No, and it's because of religion. Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people's business. I live by the golden rule: Treat others as you'd want them to treat you. The religious right wants to tell people how to live.

[Q] Playboy: What's the solution to the war on drugs?

[A] Ventura: Stop the demand. In a free society you can't have martial law, you can't have people battering down doors. In the end it's the individual's decision to make. The prohibition of drugs causes crime. You don't have to legalize it, just decriminalize it. Regulate it. Create places where the addict can go get it. When you prohibit something, it doesn't mean it'll go away. The same with abortion. If you prohibit it, it won't stop. It will just go to the back alleys, and then two lives will be in danger.

[Q] Playboy: When was the last time you chewed a peyote button, smoked a joint or dropped acid?

[A] Ventura: A while ago. And most of those things I haven't done. I have smoked a joint, and there's nothing wrong with that. That's one of the biggest atrocities going on right now: marijuana. I have done far stupider things on alcohol. Give someone a Hendrix tape and a joint and stick him in the corner and he's happy.

[Q] Playboy: If you had smoked a joint since becoming governor, would you admit it?

[A] Ventura: No. It's my personal life. That would be like asking me which sex acts I like.

[Q] Playboy: But you've said you would never lie to the people of Minnesota.

[A] Ventura: Right, but that doesn't mean I have to answer everyone's questions. If it's relevant to my job, I'll answer it. You have no business asking anything about my private life.

[Q] Playboy: You've said that nowhere in the Constitution does it say government's business is to create jobs. That's the private sector's responsibility.

[A] Ventura: Am I right? Have you read the Constitution? Does it say anything about government's ability to create jobs?

[Q] Playboy: Doesn't that give the impression that you don't care?

[A] Ventura: The point is, I'm breaking away from this reliance on government, which was not founded to create jobs. Create your own job! Be an individual.

[Q] Playboy: Are there any welfare programs that you endorse?

[A] Ventura: I endorse all welfare. There should be a safety net, but it should not be a lifestyle. What I oppose is when people talk about welfare rights. You don't have a right to welfare—it's charity.

[Q] Playboy: Has your opinion of the media changed since you became governor?

[A] Ventura: They're dangerous. The media have an agenda. They try to make the public think they're just reporters who report facts. Not true. They carry their personal beliefs and attitudes into the articles they write. I'm a firm believer in free speech, but with any freedom comes responsibility, and the media are abusing their position. It happened to my wife, when someone wrote about her taking over my radio show when I was out of town. At the end of the article the person stated that I was off at this celebrity golf tournament with my security guards, who were being paid by the public. That's an example of the media putting a little twist at the end to incite people to get angry at me. But it's the law: Anywhere I go, I am to be protected. It doesn't matter if I'm on a book tour or play in a celebrity golf tournament or if I take a vacation.

[Q] Playboy: Are you still looked upon as a guy who doesn't need protection? As the bumper stickers boast: Our Governor is stronger than your Governor.

[A] Ventura: People don't realize that I get at least one death threat a week. We've had two bomb threats where the buildings had to be evacuated.

[Q] Playboy: You were asked on one radio station to name your state's song, bird, muffin and drink. You missed two of the four. Do you know them all now?

[A] Ventura: Nope, because they're all irrelevant and unimportant. They asked me the state drink—to me, it's beer.

[Q] Playboy: But now you know it's——?

[A] Ventura: Milk. Which threw me off because Wisconsin is the dairy land.

[Q] Playboy: And the state song?

[A] Ventura: I'd say now it would be something by Jonny Lang or Bob Dylan. [Editor's note: It's Hail! Minnesota.] I know the state bird is a loon and the muffin is blueberry.

[Q] Playboy: The press may piss you off, but you seem to thrive on attacking them.

[A] Ventura: They need it. Nobody holds them accountable. No one holds their feet to the fire.

[Q] Playboy: What insults have gotten under your skin?

[A] Ventura: Only the personal ones. They can criticize my policies all they want, but they go beyond that. And when I criticize them everyone gets upset with me. I love how people can dish it out but can't take it.

[Q] Playboy: Which is just what Barbara Carlson, the former governor's ex-wife, told Mirabella about you: "He can dish it out but can't take it, and that's going to be his downfall."

[A] Ventura: Consider the source. This is a woman who struck the former governor with a frying pan, who had a name for his private parts. So you have to take that with a grain of salt. She's also a woman who's had her stomach cut out so she don't eat as much. What happened to willpower? I love fat people. Every fat person says it's not their fault, that they have gland trouble. You know which gland? The saliva gland. They can't push away from the table.

[Q] Playboy: Some have said you're a vindictive person. Do you believe in an eye for an eye?

[A] Ventura: No, but I believe in the Seal team code: We don't get mad, we get even [laughs]. Vindictive? Nah, not when it comes to business. As long as no one makes a personal attack on me. If they go personal, I'll go personal.

[Q] Playboy: What's the most important thing you got out of the Seals?

[A] Ventura: The will to never quit; that anything can be accomplished if it's planned right and you have the desire and creativity to execute it.

[Q] Playboy: Did you ever feel Seals training was ridiculous, or did you always feel there was method to the madness?

[A] Ventura: It's done for two reasons. First, to weed out the bananas, the ones who don't belong. It's also done so you will develop the attitude I have, and all frogmen have, which is the measuring stick of my life: No matter what I come up against, I always think back and remember that that was harder.

[Q] Playboy: Why do the Seals pride themselves on not wearing underwear?

[A] Ventura: It's for sanitation purposes. It came about because during our era of the Seals it was jungle warfare. If you're lying out on ambush for 12 hours and you have to go to the bathroom, in many cases you have to go right in your pants. It stands to reason that if you're going to do a few river crossings, it would get away from you a lot easier if it's not constricted by underwear. Also, the regular Navy wears boxer shorts and we don't consider ourselves part of the regular Navy. We're unto ourselves—we're the brown water Navy—so we do it to be different. If you're ever caught wearing underwear, they'll rip them off you and throw you in either the dip tank or the shit river over in Olongapo. Once you've been in there, you'd rather not wear underwear. It's a macho thing.

[Q] Playboy: In the Philippines, how much did you indulge in the decadent nightlife of Olongapo?

[A] Ventura: Plenty. Just as any 19-year-old would.

[Q] Playboy: In your book you describe your dealings with prostitutes before shipping out overseas.

[A] Ventura: That was just a cutting-loose period. I was getting sent to Asia on a Monday morning, and a friend told me that prostitution was legal in Nevada. I didn't believe him, so we took off to Lake Tahoe for the weekend.

[Q] Playboy: You actually made money from one prostitute, didn't you?

[A] Ventura: I'm probably one of the few people in the world who got paid. The particular girl I chose saw the belt I was wearing—made of spent Stoner machine gun rounds, linked—and she said she wanted it. I smiled and said, "Make me an offer." She said, "How about a trick and ten dollars?" I pulled it off and said, "Sold!" Then we corresponded when I was overseas. It was nice to get a letter from someone. It didn't matter to me that she made a living as a prostitute. She still took the time to write to me. She wasn't out there like the protesters, spitting on the soldiers and blaming us for a political war.

[Q] Playboy: What do you think of the sexual harassment charges that are brought against the Navy, as in Tailhook?

[A] Ventura: I don't condone what happened, but I understand it. These are people who live on the razor's edge and defy death and do things where people die. They're not going to consider grabbing a woman's breast or buttock a major situation. That's much ado about nothing.

[Q] Playboy: It's not trivial for the woman who is being grabbed.

[A] Ventura: So? You have to create these people for your own protection. You need to listen to Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men when he does his famous speech: "You can't handle the truth." What he's saying is: You create me, you live by the very freedom that I provide for you, then you question the manner in which I provide it? You're incapable of providing it for yourself. You created this Frankenstein, then all of a sudden you're appalled.

[Q] Playboy: You've never talked about what you did as a Seal overseas. Did you do anything you're ashamed of?

[A] Ventura: No.

[Q] Playboy: Would you like to talk about it?

[A] Ventura: No.

[Q] Playboy: Does your family know what you did there?

[A] Ventura: No.

[Q] Playboy: Have you ever killed anyone?

[A] Ventura: You don't ask a question like that—it's inappropriate. That's no one's business. It's between the person and his beliefs. You're asked to do your job, and in light of the job you do it's a great possibility that you could, and it will never go away if you did.

[Q] Playboy: You became a biker for nine months after you left the Seals. What's the difference between a Harley, a BMW, a Yamaha and a Honda?

[A] Ventura: Harley's the only bike, all the rest are motorcycles. I sold my Harley when Sonny Barger, president of the Hell's Angels, said it was time to buy a Honda. It's no longer the bike of the one-percenters. Every stockbroker, accountant and lawyer now owns a Harley.

[Q] Playboy: Why have you opposed helmet laws?

[A] Ventura: Freedom.

[Q] Playboy: Do you ever wear a helmet?

[A] Ventura: No.

[Q] Playboy: Isn't it a safety issue?

[A] Ventura: No, then people in convertibles would have to wear them too. See how far that will fly.

[Q] Playboy: Your wife Terry was 19 when she agreed to marry you. What did her parents think of you?

[A] Ventura: That I was a bit eccentric and off the wall because I had bleached blond hair down to my shoulders, I chewed tobacco and I wasn't quite what they thought their daughter should marry. Her mom tried to talk her out of it.

[Q] Playboy: You seem to have mastered the art of getting under people's skin, which began when you were wrestling. Did you spend a lot of time then thinking up ways to piss off a crowd?

[A] Ventura: You drew people with your interviews. I always tried to stay on top of the local issues wherever I wrestled, and then took the most outrageous position I could. In Denver all you have to do is insult the Broncos. If you go to a Western town where they're all cowboys, you insult the male ego. You call them drugstore cowboys and goat ropers.

[Q] Playboy: Did you find 'Jesse sucks" to be music to your ears?

[A] Ventura: Completely. That meant I'd done my job. That's like Nureyev getting a standing ovation and roses thrown on the stage.

[Q] Playboy: Were you told who would win before each match?

[A] Ventura: Sure. But you were told that if you revealed the business, something bad would befall you. In my early days if someone called me a fake, I'd punch him in the face and say, "Is that fake?"

[Q] Playboy: You would go on steroids for a month, then get off them for six months. How did you discipline yourself not to abuse them?

[A] Ventura: My mom was a nurse, so I knew that for every upside to a drug there's a downside. The main one I took was testosterone, which gives you nothing but an overabundance of male hormones. The downside was when you came off it. If your body is getting an artificial amount of testosterone, its own production will cut back. Then there's this guadatropic, or whatever they call it, which you take a shot of when you're done. That causes your body to produce more testosterone again. I never abused testosterone, and I always got it from doctors.

[Q] Playboy: Did most wrestlers you know abuse it?

[A] Ventura: Oh yeah.

[Q] Playboy: How do you rate yourself as a wrestler?

[A] Ventura: Phenomenal. The name of the game is, How well do you draw? I drew sellouts just about every time. I sold out Madison Square Garden three times. I was the Pacific heavyweight champion after nine months in the business.

[Q] Playboy: During your wrestling days, weren't the real bad guys the promoters, who took advantage of the wrestlers?

[A] Ventura: Sure, and they still do today. It's still a backward business. There's no union, no benefits. The biggest fraud is that they call wrestlers independent contractors, and the government allows them to get away with it. They're not independent contractors. You can't wrestle for Ted Turner and then wrestle for Vince McMahon the next week.

[Q] Playboy: You've written that Hulk Hogan sabotaged your attempts to unionize. Has he responded?

[A] Ventura: I heard him on Larry King, and he said he didn't do it. But I got my information in a sworn deposition, under oath. Hulk Hogan's credibility needs to be questioned anyway, because he also went on national TV and said he never took a steroid. He took many steroids in large doses.

[Q] Playboy: You've returned to wrestling as a referee, but there's talk of promoters wanting to pay you $3 million to wrestle again. Would you consider it?

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Jesse Ventura(continued from page 66)

[A] Ventura: I've heard that, but I've never received an offer. Who wouldn't consider it?

[Q] Playboy: How long would it take you to get into shape to wrestle?

[A] Ventura: Three to four months of hard training. I'm in the worst physical condition of my adult life.

[Q] Playboy: Would you grow your hair and wear the boa?

[A] Ventura: No, I'd go back as I am. I'd put the earrings back in. But it's not going to happen. I'd like to be the one who retired when he said he did.

[Q] Playboy: Any opinions about Stone Cold Steve Austin? Goldberg? Mankind? The Undertaker?

[A] Ventura: I knew Austin in the WCW. He was a phenomenal talent. Steve Austin was a jewel waiting to be discovered. Vince McMahon discovered him when the WCW couldn't see it. The WCW is just Vince's retreads. Goldberg's their only original, and they may lose him. I heard he's very unhappy there. Mankind is a crazy guy. By the time he gets to be 40 he'll be lucky if he's walking. The Undertaker's been around a long time now, a good talent. I don't know if he's the original one though.

[Q] Playboy: What about Sable?

[A] Ventura: T and A will sell, but as far as talent goes, I don't know if she's got any. Women's wrestling can thank silicone. Breast implants are what make it popular. Before that, it was right up there with the midgets, an added attraction.

[Q] Playboy: Which sports do you like to watch?

[A] Ventura: I love NBA basketball, NFL football, boxing—though I went to the last Holyfield–Lewis fight and when it was over I turned to everybody and said, "I don't want to hear one word about wrestling." I watch baseball when I want to go to sleep. The only thing that would get me to watch soccer is if they removed the goalies. Hockey I'd enjoy if they'd stop the fighting. Charles Barkley said to me, "Hockey's a great game. It's the only sport where you can beat the crap out of your opponent and the only penalty is that you spend two minutes in the box."

[Q] Playboy: We haven't talked about your career in Hollywood. Of the TV shows and films you appeared in, which role was the most challenging?

[A] Ventura:The X-Files. I played a Man in Black. I've had more people say to me: Why didn't they spin you off into a TV series? Boy, were they stupid. That was the most challenging because of the dialogue. When I first read it I didn't even know what the hell I was talking about. My favorite role was Blain in Predator, because that was going back to what I'm very good at. When I first got to the set of Predator they gave me my gear, including a rubber knife. I said, "What's this?" They said, "That's your knife." I said, "Give me a real one. I don't carry a rubber knife."

[Q] Playboy: Did you ask for real bullets too?

[A] Ventura: No, I was shooting blanks. But I got my knife. And they were scared to death of me the whole time. I unsheathed the knife in front of [producer] Joel Silver one day. He had become infatuated with my wife, Terry. He said to me on the set, "I'm going to make a big star out of Terry. What do you think of that?" I said, "Great. I'll be happy to stay home with the kids." So he couldn't get to me. Then he said, "I'm going to make her take her top off. What do you think about that?" I calmly took out the knife and started filing my thumbnail with it. I said, "Joel, that's cool. But just remember something." He goes, "What?" I said, "You've got to sleep sometime." And he went, "This guy's crazy. He's crazy."

[Q] Playboy: Who among the talent you worked with most impressed you?

[A] Ventura: Arnold Schwarzenegger. He's a delightful man, one of the most focused, ruthless businessmen I've ever seen. More ruthless than even I can be. Who else? I like Sly Stallone—he's personable. A little more aloof than Arnold, though. Arnold will hang out with you more than Sly will. Oh, and John Lithgow. I admire him; he's a phenomenal actor. In our fight scene in Ricochet we did it virtually by ourselves. He'll get down and dirty with you.

[Q] Playboy: Would you be surprised to see Arnold run for office?

[A] Ventura: I believe it intrigues him, but why would he? When you're getting paid what he gets paid to do a movie, I can't imagine why you would want to subject yourself to politics.

[Q] Playboy: Which actress turns you on the most?

[A] Ventura: I've always been in love with Sophia Loren. She's the most beautiful woman who's ever set foot on the planet. I fell in love with her as a child when I saw her in El Cid. Even today, closing in on 70, she doesn't have to take a backseat to any 20-year-old. And I'd say Sophia's real, if you get what I mean. I don't think Sophia's been enhanced.

[Q] Playboy: What other women are attractive to you?

[A] Ventura: I've always been attracted to brunettes more than blondes. I enjoy women whose bodies are real. I don't care for the ones who have had breast enhancements and their lips done. I've told my wife, "Don't ever think you need to do that stuff to keep me."

[Q] Playboy: You dined with Sean Penn and Jack Nicholson when they came to Minnesota. Any insights?

[A] Ventura: I've got to confess to people that Jack really isn't a good actor. Jack is Jack. The Jack you see on-screen is the Jack you get in your house! Who could ask for more?

[Q] Playboy: Your daughter Jade's favorite movie star is Leonardo DiCaprio.

[A] Ventura: Yeah, that goddamn Titanic.

[Q] Playboy: Think you can pull enough strings to get her an introduction?

[A] Ventura: Sure. When she was very little she was just as infatuated with Tom Petty. When Tom came to Minneapolis I arranged for Jade to meet him before his show. I don't think DiCaprio is out of the question.

[Q] Playboy: What's your favorite movie?

[A] Ventura:Jaws. I thank God the movie wasn't made until I was done being a frogman.

[Q] Playboy: Favorite music?

[A] Ventura: I'm a big fan of Led Zeppelin, the Rolling Stones, Jonny Lang. Lang is the future of music. God works in strange ways, and God took Stevie Ray Vaughan from us and replaced him with Jonny Lang. He's now a friend. The moment the guitar is in his hands he goes to a level none of us will know. He's a phenom.

[Q] Playboy: If you could sing like anyone, who would it be?

[A] Ventura: Robert Plant in his heyday.

[Q] Playboy: You were the first governor to declare an official Rolling Stones Day.

[A] Ventura: Yeah, February 15. We met them before their concert and Mick presented the first lady with a tour jacket; Keith Richards looked at me and said, "You were our bodyguard in 1978 and 1981 and now you're the governor. Fucking amazing!"

[Q] Playboy: Who's your favorite writer?

[A] Ventura: It has to be Louis L'Amour. I named my son after one of his characters. Louis could write a book and tell you how the guy gets the shit kicked out of him and how tired he is, he's laying by this quiet stream with the stars overhead, and the next thing you know you're sound asleep. He could talk you right into sleeping along with the cowboy character.

[Q] Playboy: Ever read any Hemingway?

[A] Ventura: No, Hemingway lost his credibility with me when he killed himself. I've seen too many people fight for their lives. I have no respect for anyone who would kill himself.

[Q] Playboy: That's a pretty harsh thing to say without knowing the circumstances.

[A] Ventura: No it is not! It's an easy thing to say. If you're to the point of killing yourself, and you're that depressed, life can only get better. If you're a feeble, weak-minded person to begin with, I don't have time for you.

[Q] Playboy: Let's talk about some of your other outspoken beliefs—such as the JFK conspiracy.

[A] Ventura: Name me one person who can verify that the Warren Commission is factual. You're talking to an ex–Navy Seal here. Oswald had seven seconds to get three rounds off. He's got a bolt-action weapon, and he's going to miss the first shot and hit the next two? If Oswald was indeed who they say he was—a disgruntled little Marine who got angry and became pro-Marxist and decided to shoot the president—please explain why everything would be locked in the archives until 2029 and put under national security? How could he affect national security?

[Q] Playboy: So after all your reading and research, who do you think killed President Kennedy?

[A] Ventura: I believe the hired shooters could be from anywhere—Europeans, Cubans. They're just hired guns.

[Q] Playboy: Who hired the shooters?

[A] Ventura: I don't know if I want to get into this on your tape. I don't want people to think I'm some sort of erratic nut running the state of Minnesota. If you truly want to know, I believe we did. The military-industrial complex. I believe Kennedy was going to withdraw us from Vietnam and there were factions that didn't want that.

[Q] Playboy: But maybe the strongest case against a conspiracy is that we can't keep secrets of this magnitude for nearly 40 years. Everything leaks. The president can't get a blow job without the world finding out about it.

[A] Ventura: That's because every bit of real evidence is ridiculed. The method is to dismiss it by saying: "Oh, that's just those conspiracy nuts."

[Q] Playboy: How would your wife react if there were a Monica Lewinsky in your life?

[A] Ventura: I won't even answer that question, because there's not. And there won't be. She would not stay with me, I guarantee you that. She wouldn't be married to me for power, prestige or to be the first lady.

[Q] Playboy: Are you criticizing Hillary Clinton, who stood by her man?

[A] Ventura: I'm not going to judge their marriage. Only they know their marriage. I can only say that Terry would have been gone.

[Q] Playboy: If you think you're in prison here as governor, would you feel like a caged animal at the White House?

[A] Ventura: Sure. The president lives in a jail cell. He's the king of the jail cell [laughs]. He's the most powerful man in the free world, but he's not really free, is he? That's one of the reasons I won't do it. See, when I'm done being governor, I can leave this and go back to some semblance of a private life. But I can put up with this because it's no different from when I obligated myself to the Navy: You enlist and then you go off to boot camp and wonder how you'll make it through, then your resolve takes over and you do the job. But at the end of four years here, who knows, I may not seek reelection. I could go back to the private sector just as quickly as I came here.

[Q] Playboy: We doubt, somehow, that you'll disappear from public view three years from now.

[A] Ventura: I could do a second term. But very probably I'll end up a beach bum. That's why I'm going to shave my head and face the whole time I do this, because when I'm done I'm going to go into seclusion for six to nine months and grow out my hair. Then I'll go back into public where I'll be unrecognizable.

[Q] Playboy: Let's say your life is over and you discover that you can return as anything you want. What would you come back as?

[A] Ventura: If I could be reincarnated as a fabric, I would like to come back as a 38 double-D bra.