Playboy's 20Q: Jakob Dylan

It was an act of reckless courage for Jakob Dylan to become a musician---and to do as well as he's done is nothing short of remarkable. He was born in 1969 and raised in Malibu, the youngest of Bob Dylan and Sara Lowndes' five children. Jakob's parents divorced in 1977 and he was raised largely by his mother, but the die had been cast---he'd begun dreaming of a life as a musician. A mediocre student, he began applying himself mightily to songwriting when he was 18, and two years later he formed the first incarnation of the Wallflowers. He recalls that "the Dylan name was perceived as a negative" during those early years when he struggled to launch the band, and the Wallflowers' self-titled debut album, released by Virgin Records in 1992, sold just 40,000 copies.

The Wallflowers' sound had changed dramatically by 1996 when their second LP, Bringing Down the Horse, hit the charts, and the band had arrived at its present lineup of bassist Greg Richling, drummer Mario Calire, guitarist Michael Ward and keyboardist Rami Jaffee (the only member who was in the original group). Produced by T-Bone Burnett, Bringing Down the Horse was a hugely successful record that went multiplatinum and spawned a handful of hit singles, including One Headlight, a memorable tune with a killer hook and loping charm that took it to number one on the charts and netted two Grammys.

The Wallflowers spent a year on the road promoting the record and were ubiquitous in the media and on the airwaves throughout 1997. At the close of that year they dropped out of sight and spent the next three years working on their third album, Breach. Recently released on Interscope Records and produced by Wallflowers manager Andrew Slater and musician Michael Penn, the record features 11 new Jakob Dylan originals and guest appearances by Elvis Costello, Frank Black of the Pixies and Mike Campbell of Tom Petty's band, the Heartbreakers.

Kristine McKenna caught up with the thoroughbred troubadour in Beverly Hills. She reports: "When Jakob Dylan walks into a room, you immediately sense the invisible force field surrounding him that seems to say, 'If you think I'm going to talk about my father in any way, at all, about anything, you're wrong.' Dylan is a startlingly handsome and well-adjusted man with a sense of humor about himself. He is, however, fiercely protective of his private life with his wife and their three children. Jakob was obviously raised with the understanding that there are some things you don't talk about to the press."

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[Q] Playboy: Was there a period in your life when you were a wallflower?

[A] Dylan: If you're referring to the person standing against the wall at the dance, I don't think I've ever been to a dance, so I'm more dysfunctional than a wallflower. During the years I was growing up in Malibu, going to dances just wasn't one of the things people did. Even if it had been, I probably wouldn't have gone, because I wasn't a very social person and didn't hang out at public places. I had a small number of friends and we were always at one or another of our houses.

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[Q] Playboy: As a student in high school you'd take an F in a course rather than get up in class and give an oral report. What sort of preparatory ritual do you go through now in order to get up onstage and sing?

[A] Dylan: It's different with performing music, because I've done my homework. Even so, when I started performing in front of people I was extremely uncomfortable, and the only reason I got through it was because I was highly motivated by the fact that I wanted to perform these songs in front of people. I'm still not always the most comfortable person onstage, because when you're in this line of work you can end up in situations that aren't too natural. Various elements can make you feel strange, whether it's somebody in the audience yelling, or you can't hear yourself in the monitors, or you're playing a fund-raiser and facing a bank of TV cameras. The conditions vary widely, as do our shows, which are very loose---in some cases too loose. Some performers dial it in a little more, but this isn't a Broadway musical we're doing, and we feel it should be somewhat spontaneous. On our last tour, for instance, we threw in covers of Tears of a Clown and Tracks of My Tears, and we took a stab at Raspberry Beret. We also mess around with Nick Cave's People Ain't No Good, which is a dark song the band really likes to play. It's hard to put a song like that over if you're playing fairs and people are petting pigs and lighting fireworks while you perform. This may be a little-known secret, but all touring bands play the fairgrounds. It's summertime and you play outdoors in small towns out in the middle of nowhere, and it can be a lot of fun.

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[Q] Playboy: What's the worst kind of gig?

[A] Dylan: The ones where nobody shows up. It's been a while since that's happened, but I never discount it as a possibility. With the last record our audience grew rapidly and broadened a lot. I realize a lot of those people probably came just to hear One Headlight, but that's fine with me. There are all kinds of fans, and I'm thrilled if some people like one of our songs enough that they go out of their way to see us perform.

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[Q] Playboy: Do you have groupies? In Gerri Hirshey's 1997 Rolling Stone cover story on the Wallflowers, she reported that someone threw a bra onstage during one of your shows.

[A] Dylan: Yeah, but she didn't see the guy who threw it. (continued on page 214)Jakob Dylan(continued from page 169)

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[Q] Playboy: The title of your new album is Breach, a word that refers to a violation or infraction of a law, obligation or standard. Who broke what?

[A] Dylan: The title refers to an illusion most young musicians start out with and that I certainly had. When you're young and you start playing music you think all you really need in life is to make a record that's popular, and that that will make you a satisfied person with a satisfied mind. As great as it is to have a hit record and as much as I appreciated it, I discovered it's not all you need. This isn't to suggest I had illusions about the music business, because I didn't. I'm talking about the mistaken perception that creating something other people gravitate toward generates a feeling of boundless satisfaction. In having a hit I found that I was satisfied, but only with that part of my life. The album title also refers to being born ass first, as in a breech birth. Mine wasn't a breech birth, but sometimes I feel as if I'm going around ass first.

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[Q] Playboy: The new record has been described as centering on the struggle to come to terms with the realities of life. Is there a particular reality that's been on your mind?

[A] Dylan: I don't write things that are giddy and strictly hopeful, and my writing has always had a sardonic, slightly sarcastic tone. Even so, all my songs have an essentially positive point of view, in my opinion. I suppose the bittersweet reality these songs are grappling with is my realization that I'm not 21 years old anymore and I don't want to live my life on a tour bus. It's taken me a long time to admit to myself that I'm most at ease at home, and I fought that realization for a long time. We're about to head out for another year on the road. I'm ready and I appreciate the work, because there was a time the Wallflowers did very short tours. Still, the last one we did was demanding and it reached a point where things kept getting larger and larger as we went along. Each day you get up and you just make choices---you pick A or B---because things are constantly coming toward you. Then finally you reach a point where you know the record has peaked and it's time to say goodbye to it. I found that to be a sad moment, and it's always hard to say goodbye to the road because I like having plans and a place to be. Being out there is hard work, though.

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[Q] Playboy: What is the most important thing to remember if you want to stay healthy on the road?

[A] Dylan: You can't let yourself forget that the way you're living is abnormal. Getting up in a different place every day, with different air-conditioning and heating systems, is not a normal reality. The constant movement, the hours you keep, having broken sleep every night, exhaustion---it all takes a toll on your body. You have to keep an eye on it and make an effort to avoid that pizza at 2:30 in the morning, along with all the other junk food out there.

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[Q] Playboy: What's the weirdest thing you take on the road?

[A] Dylan: I tend to go out with very little and come home with a lot. I wouldn't describe myself as a collector, but recently I started collecting belt buckles. I was sitting around the studio and somebody turned me on to buying stuff on the Internet. I would never spend any real money there and don't understand how people can spend thousands of dollars online---it doesn't make any sense to me, because you can't hold the thing before you buy it. Belt buckles are kind of harmless, though, and you can find some great old ones on the Internet for $15. I also buy far too many hats. I don't know how many I have, but I'm always willing to buy another one. I used to buy them in thrift stores, but I've pretty much stopped buying used clothing because I started thinking about the life of the garment before I got it. What if the person who wore this before me did something really horrible while he had it on? What if this was removed from someone lying on a stretcher in a hospital? What if somebody died wearing this? Thinking about that stuff started giving me the creeps.

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[Q] Playboy: You somehow managed to obtain a sweaty vest worn by Joe Strummer and had it framed. What does it represent to you?

[A] Dylan: At this point it represents that I'm larger than Joe Strummer and that unfortunately I'm too big to wear it. It was one of the vests he wore on the Clash's Combat Rock tour, which was the first time I met him. He's an amazing guy. I've been going to rock shows since I was in diapers, but one of the greatest shows I've ever seen was the Clash when they played the Palladium in LA in 1981. I was 12 or 13, so this was back before moshing got out of hand, and it was just incredible to watch that sea of people. Combat boots were flying through the air, people were walking around with broken noses---it was terrifying but brilliant, and something was happening on that stage that was unlike anything I'd ever seen. They were such an incredibly charismatic, thoughtful and dangerous group up there---they were like a gang. It was tough. The Wallflowers is very much a band, but I'd break camp in a heartbeat to work with Joe Strummer.

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[Q] Playboy: Of the three major American counterculture movements of the past 50 years---the Beats of the Fifties, the hippies of the Sixties and the punks of the Seventies---which do you most regret having been too young to have experienced?

[A] Dylan: The great thing about all those movements is that they keep coming back. When they were actually happening for the first time, I suppose the one that would've had the most lasting effect on a person's life would be the Beat movement. The other two were largely trends about fashion, and people either outgrew them or didn't outlive them, or they outlived them but don't have many brain cells left. In terms of the drugs associated with the Sixties, I don't have much interest in checking out for six hours. There are lots of ways to check out, but to take some kind of substance, then wake up in a different city several hours later and not remember what happened? That doesn't interest me at all and just sounds ridiculous. Punk obviously had deep political meaning for many people, but I mostly responded to the music. I never wanted to shove a safety pin through my cheek, and as for the politics, it would be ridiculous and dishonest to pretend that I had anything to rebel against.

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[Q] Playboy: Why are drugs so prevalent in the music world?

[A] Dylan: Probably because Keith Richards is still going, God bless him. People look at him and think, Gee, maybe I, too, can go through all this insanity and come out at the other end. Obviously it doesn't happen that way for 99 percent of the people who try out that lifestyle. Nonetheless, drugs are married to rock and roll, and that's partly a result of where this music came from. I recently read a book called I'd Rather Be the Devil, a biography of a dangerous blues guy named Skip James. His records are fantastic, but he seemed like a pretty horrifying person. He didn't live in a world of young pop stars, and most of the musicians he knew didn't start to get anywhere until they were in their 40s. None of them made money because the music was just being invented then, and they actually lived what evolved into the rock-and-roll lifestyle. They lived in a world of guns, knives and drugs. Nobody knew the music they were playing would eventually be worth money, and they all got ripped off. As to whether things are better for musicians today, I don't think anybody can claim naivete at this point. Everybody knows the music business can be dirty, and it's been well reported that in America the artist is lower on the ladder than the people who run the companies.

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[Q] Playboy: There's a lyric in your new song Sleepwalker that goes: "Cupid don't draw back your bow/Sam Cooke didn't know what I know." What do you know that Sam Cooke didn't?

[A] Dylan: Obviously I don't think I'm smarter than Sam Cooke, and although that's what the lyric seems to be saying, that's not exactly what I meant. Sam Cooke's song Cupid is a favorite of mine and I guess you could say it's a pure, hopeful song. I write songs from a similar point of view, but Sleepwalker isn't one of them. Sleepwalker suggests that while it may be tempting to attach yourself to something or somebody, it's healthier not to do that. Cupid is just one of the thousands of songs that say otherwise, of course, because popular music has been obsessed with romantic love for centuries. You can't pin that just on music, though, because everybody is obsessed with that. We all long for something that's pure and honest.

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[Q] Playboy: What's your most vivid memory of your bar mitzvah?

[A] Dylan: I remember that I was the only kid who didn't want the party. I didn't want to do any of it, actually, but I thought if I could just get through the reading part I'd be happy. The party is supposed to be the fun part, but I wanted to skip the fun. Everybody standing around in light-blue suits with big lapels? I'd rather burn right through that.

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[Q] Playboy: You've said you have a weakness for sad cowboy songs. When was the last time you heard music that brought tears to your eyes?

[A] Dylan: Probably some of the early mixes of Breach. I don't know if I react to music by actually crying, but there are many songs that move me. There's a Lefty Frizzell song, I Want to Be With You Always, that's great, and Charlie Rich's Feel Like Going Home has always been one of my favorites.

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[Q] Playboy: You recently said, "Fame is not a good thing and doesn't benefit you in any way." Do you mean to say there's not one single perk of fame you enjoy?

[A] Dylan: I don't think fame itself benefits you. What does it get you that is fantastic? I don't think it does anything for you, but I also don't have any complaints about it. Once in a while somebody approaches me in the street, but I don't think it's a horrible thing when somebody tells me they like my record. I guess that ruins some people's day, but that never made sense to me. I don't know why people get upset about that. People are usually very nice, and if I don't feel like speaking to strangers, I just don't go out. You can't go to movie premieres, then complain that people bother you.

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[Q] Playboy: What we're talking about is privacy. Why do people want to know other people's business?

[A] Dylan: Probably because they only get snapshots of certain lives they're aware of, and they assume those lives must be incredible, interesting and happy. Personally, I'm always satisfied with the information people choose to give about themselves. I don't like to be probed, so I don't pry into other people's business, and I don't ask questions other people have indicated they don't want to answer. There's way too much information about people out there now anyhow, and it's increasing all the time with the Internet. There are 50 rock-and-roll magazines and every one of them also has a TV show. We're constantly being taken behind the scenes with people who are 23 years old, and "the making of" documentaries tell us more than we could possibly want to know about the most insignificant projects. When I bought records as a kid, you got the front album cover, you went to the show, maybe you bought a T-shirt or a poster for your bedroom wall and that was it. It was enough, too, and it was thrilling because it allowed musicians to retain an element of mystery.

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[Q] Playboy: Does the public demand too much of pop musicians? It seems that they're simultaneously canonized and scrutinized.

[A] Dylan: Yes, but a lot of people love it. Moreover, there is irresponsibility on both sides when the public demands that pop musicians speak out on political issues and so forth. You look in magazines and see pop stars raising awareness at charity events, and while I suppose that's probably the one positive way to exploit fame, why do you have to let the public know who you donate money to? If you want to do it, just do it. You don't have to talk about it.

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[Q] Playboy: Who inspires you?

[A] Dylan: I'm inspired by people like Jerry Lee Lewis, who has completely checked out of trying to matter to kids or anything like that but continues to play. I admire it because it proves that without the pulling and pushing you tend to do when you're in this line of work, people will find you and support your work if you're good. Obviously I'm not pretending to run my job or my life the way Jerry Lee Lewis does, but I admire that he just keeps doing what he likes to do, because I know how difficult it is. It really can be a perilous world to live in. I recently read Peter Guralnick's book on Elvis Presley, and the signs of all the tragedy that lay ahead for him were there even before he went into the Army. Early on in his career he couldn't go anywhere without an entourage of people, and that's the first red flag. Today there are billboards everywhere reminding people to beware of addictive substances, but back then people didn't realize that all the medication he was taking would destroy his body. I suppose you could say that America and his friends killed Elvis, but truthfully, I don't know if it's possible to experience the kind of mass adoration he had and not be destroyed by it.

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[Q] Playboy: In the book of Genesis, Jacob lay his head on a stone pillow and dreamed of a ladder to heaven. He saw the face of God when he got there. What would you expect to find at the top of the ladder?

[A] Dylan: Absolutely nothing. I really enjoy solitude. I like the small, monotonous aspects of daily life at home, and I've never been a big thrill seeker. I don't need bungee jumping in my life. Many people thrive on having a large circle of friends, but I prefer to know as few people as possible, and I can still remember the same 10 phone numbers that I've known for the last 20 years. People tend to misinterpret the fact that I'm kind of shy and quiet as my being aloof and pretentious, but it's hard enough to maintain peace and sanity among the small circle of people I know. The more people you know, the more feelings, issues and problems you become involved in.

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[Q] Playboy: What's your favorite Bob Dylan song?

[A] Dylan: Bob Denver? That guy on Gilligan's Island? I didn't know he made any records.