The Talented Mr. Ridley

Fans who salivated over a Silence of the Lambs sequel the way Hannibal Lecter did over a census taker's liver-- served with fava beans and a nice chianti--lost their appetite when both Jodie Foster and director Jonathan Demme declined to return for a second course. That is until Ridley Scott, fresh from reviving the sword-and-sandal era with the Russell Crowe blockbuster Gladiator, joined Anthony Hopkins and stepped in to fill the void. The 63-year-old British-born director knows his way around villains, having birthed one far more ferocious in Alien than Lecter. One of the most imitated directors (especially by makers of music videos), Scott has provided striking visual feasts in films like Alien, Blade Runner, Thelma and Louise and Black Rain. Even his failures, from Legend to G.I. Jane to White Squall, offered intriguing worlds to look at.

Scott's decision to make Hannibal his first sequel--he had no role in the sequels to Alien--raises hopes that Lecter's inevitable encounter with FBI agent Clarice Starling (now played by Julianne Moore) has a chance to be memorable. But he will be the first to admit that the original is a tough act to follow.

Playboy: Hannibal Lecter was such a bizarre, indelible villain. How do you keep him from becoming a parody?

Scott: That comes down to taste, and it's the job of the director to make judgments to prevent that. There's a lot to sustain him, since you only saw him standing in a cell last time. Now, Hannibal is out in the wide world, enjoying himself, leading a normal life. How would he live? Does he redo his original acts of violence? For what reason? Does he still like to eat flesh? What makes Hannibal tick? I don't think there's guilt or remorse in his makeup. I don't think there's any sense of morality--he's more dangerous because there is no guilt. Still, those who suffer at his hand deserve it. They may suffer a little more than they ought to, but they deserve it. He enjoys the retribution. He's a little tired and bored when he sends Clarice a note, to keep her chin up, after she's been scapegoated by the FBI and the press for essentially doing her job. That gets us started.

Playboy: The original director, Jonathan Demme, dropped out, and then you lost the original Clarice Starling when Jodie Foster bowed out. You looked at actresses from Angelina Jolie to Hilary Swank to Gillian Anderson. Why Julianne Moore?

Scott: Julianne is physically a good type for that character because she's a rather stern woman and so is Clarice. Apart from that, Julianne, in the past five or 10 years, has shown herself to be a chameleon in movies like Magnolia and Boogie Nights. A lot of actors try to be different, but essentially they are variations of the same character. She's capable of being entirely different.

Playboy: So you made the movie without Foster and her $15 million salary. Could Hannibal have survived if Hopkins had to be replaced?

Scott: Probably not, oddly enough, even though in the original he was on-screen for only 15 minutes. I think he and Clarice spent about 12 minutes together in that film. There were the scenes in the cell, then he's transferred and he escapes, and you don't see him again until the phone call.

Playboy: You once said you shied away from making a sequel of your film Alien because you didn't want to cover old ground.

Scott: No, the truth is, I wasn't offered Aliens [the sequel]. I learned about it when they were making it.

Playboy: You're kidding.

Scott: Yeah, that's what I said. Alien was just my second picture, and at the end of it, I had no sequel rights. I was disappointed. That film could easily have turned out as a bad B movie. What elevated it was me. So, yeah, I was pissed off. It was only resurrected because [Aliens director] Jim Cameron came in with a scenario.

Playboy: What did you think of his movie?

Scott: It was different. Not frightening, but a good action film. It's difficult to follow frightening with frightening. The first sighting of that alien was pretty shocking, but once you got past that, it was just a beast. Even that wears out.

Playboy: Ripley was originally written as a male character, then you cast Sigourney Weaver. Did you have any idea Ripley would evolve into the rare female action hero?

Scott: The idea was to have Dallas [Tom Skerritt] as the hero, with Ripley just (continued on page 122) Ridley Scott (continued from page 92) one of two females onboard. Then we thought, Why not make the person who's least likely to survive be the survivor, and in the process of survival become a leader? Sigourney exudes authority. She's six feet tall, and with that slightly intimidating height comes a strong personality. She is also a very smart and good actress. Sigourney hadn't had a major role before, and the studio wanted someone better known. The problem was, the females I'd met didn't have the physicality. It was an act of faith.

Playboy: Alien is considered one of the greatest science fiction films ever made. When you were filming, did you know you had something special?

Scott: Yeah. When you're making certain movies, you start to feel you've got a shot at a big one. Everything was falling into place. The sets were remarkable. The ensemble was great. We probably had the best beast since Nosferatu, and that's your driving force. What's your motivation? To keep away from this motherfucker who will rip your goddamn head off, who'll tear your heart out and eat it. Your motivation is to survive, in battlefront conditions, locked into a place you can't get out of.

Playboy: You've done some visually distinctive things in movies like Alien and Blade Runner, even Black Rain. Those glowing, dark, rainy or sterile shots show up in music videos and tons of movies. When you see your influence borrowed like that, how do you feel?

Scott: I was irritated, to start with, and then amused. It started to sneak up on MTV, with the rock videos. Then MTV became the taste distributor to the kids of that generation, so that was good for me. It's funny, my movies were always beaten up by journalists, saying, "Why is it always raining? Why is it always dark?" And I'd say, "Because that's the way I want it. Because it's romantic." They would say, "It's romantic? It's miserable." But where I came from, the northeast of England, it's always raining. Suddenly, a new generation of kids saw this as a romantic view of a dark world.

Playboy: You got Russell Crowe in Gladiator at a similar time you had Harrison Ford in Blade Runner. Compare the two.

Scott: They're very different, though they're both smart. They've thought about things a lot, worked things out, and they're very opinionated. Harrison probably thought he'd go back to being a carpenter, until he got Star Wars. I was casting Blade Runner, and I liked his laconic, cynical sense of humor in Star Wars. Then I heard he was doing Indiana Jones and I figured, Bingo, this is going to be big. Steven Spielberg, George Lucas. So I booked him. In fact, the first time I met him was in London, and I remember he turned up to dinner late, after 11. He was in this leather jacket, the khaki T-shirt, the hat and unshaven face and we had dinner and talked about the character. I remember thinking, I've had dinner with Indiana Jones. Russell takes no prisoners. You've got to be very forthright about what you say to him, and be sure that you can back it up. He likes to test you. Harrison, too. You've got to stand your ground with guys like that--they feel more secure than they would with someone who keeps changing positions.

Playboy: Mel Gibson was your first choice for Gladiator. What happened?

Scott: I met with Mel, but we talked about knee problems. He's got meniscus problems and so do I, from too much tennis. He wound up giving me glucosamine, saying it would help the kneecaps. He was the natural choice, but, he said, "I'm getting a bit old for this, don't you think?" After that Russell Crowe was the only one in my mind. We knew the film would be expensive. Mel could carry that. But I have to hand it to Dream Works. When I said we had to go with Russell, they said OK--hesitantly.

Playboy: You told the press that Harrison Ford's character was a replicant in Blade Runner and even toyed with the idea of making a sequel. That film, initially looked upon as a failure, is now revered. Will you revisit that turf?

Scott: I've thought about it and thought about it. He went off with his quarry, knowing she'd die sooner or later. They disappeared into the wilderness, a dark and romantic ending. I don't know where you'd go with it. Do you pick it up 15 years later? In that case, he couldn't have been a Nexus 6, which had a four-year life span. He must have been one model up. You could always find a solution, but I found that, like Alien, the movie was complete in itself. A sequel would only wear out the concept.

Playboy: Blade Runner didn't do well when it was first released. Were you surprised?

Scott: At the time I was severely disappointed, but I knew it was a great movie. Harrison never liked it, still doesn't acknowledge that he likes it. He didn't get it, that's fine. I knew it was way out there, definitely ahead of its time, and it was seriously misjudged.

Playboy: After urging by the studio, you borrowed some exterior footage that Kubrick shot for The Shining to make a happy ending for Blade Runner, with Harrison Ford and Sean Young heading off into the mountains, and you added Harrison doing a voice-over. You later dropped both in a director's cut done for video. Why did you put them in, knowing that they undermined your message?

Scott: I was just really British, just grateful to be there. Now I think back and think, Fuck them! I should have said, "No! No voice-over, no happy ending, because it's fucking ridiculous. If you've got mountains like that, why the fuck are you living in that dark, rainy city?" There's no logic to that ending. So I should have said, "There it is, I've done the best I can, I've blown my wad. It's as good as it gets, fuck you!" Of course, I didn't do that at all. I was a good lad, tried to help them as much as possible.

Playboy: You had more clout when you did Thelma and Louise, which allowed you to have Susan Sarandon and Geena Davis drive off the cliff. Did you know that it would be such a hot-button film for feminists?

Scott: I was going to produce Thelma and find someone else to direct it. There were four directors, all of whom had problems with the women, and I said, "Well, you're meant to have problems with them." Then some said they had problems with the men and I said, "You're meant to, that's the whole fucking point of the story, you dope." Finally, Michelle Pfeiffer said to me, "Why don't you come to your senses and direct it yourself?" That stopped me in my tracks. I thought, Cheeky bitch. Then I thought, She's right. I had great fun doing it, and for the first time it wasn't only about good characters. It was actually about something--equality of women and their position in the world. I knew it would hit hot buttons with all kinds of people, and that's why I figured I had better make it amusing. I had one executive who said, "I don't get it--it's two bitches in a car." I said, "Well, you could look at it like that, but don't say it too loudly, because you might get hung from the next tree."

Playboy: George Clooney, then an unknown, was shattered when you gave the role of the hustler to another unknown, Brad Pitt. Why did you pick Brad?

Scott: I saw magic. Brad was so definitively it. He talked right and looked right. The scenes were so nicely designed for him. He picks up Geena Davis, gets to take her to bed and then robs her. What a bastard. Then he has a payoff when he gets caught, and you have that great scene where Harvey Keitel tells him that these girls are wanted for murder, and he goes, (continued on page 165) Ridley Scott (continued from page 122) "Damn," like he admires them.

Playboy: Some actors you've worked with have said biting things about you, Sigourney Weaver and Harrison Ford among them. Even Ian Holm said he waited two hours with minestrone soup in his mouth waiting for you. How do you respond?

Scott: The longer they work, the better their final result will be, because I'm doing it all for them. I used to explain that to them; I don't anymore. Alien was about as good as it gets, this side of 2001, in terms of how it looked. Blade Runner, too. Therefore, I would say what the actors forget is, it's not just about them, it's about me. When they say, "What about my performance?" I say, "What about my fucking performance?" My performance is everything you will see when those curtains go up. I'm responsible for the way it looks, the way it sounds, the way it is cast, what the locations look like, what the script's like, how the fucking shoes are tied and how your fucking hair's done. So back off and have the good grace to give me a little bit of space to coordinate these things at which I'm maybe one of the best. I say it's not just about you. Ultimately, it's about me.

Playboy: You and your brother, Tony, have the best commercial records of any British directors. You started off gangbusters in the Eighties, then had disappointments in the Nineties, while your brother's had blockbusters like Top Gun, Beverly Hills Cop II and Crimson Tide. Ever feel any sibling rivalry?

Scott: Never, never. Sibling rivalry occurs subliminally. I've got three kids now who are all directors; the eldest has done his first feature film, which is a good one. So the second one is ready to commit suicide, and the third is only 22, so she doesn't care--she's doing terrific commercials. Do I sense rivalry there? Absolutely. But with Tony and me--not at all. I'm six years older than he is. I persuaded him to become my partner in the commercials business, so that sooner or later we'd do films.

Playboy: You were 39 before you made a movie, despite your success in commercials. Why did it take so long?

Scott: I couldn't get hired in those days. I couldn't get agents to even look at me in Hollywood, and I had reels that were absolutely great. My first agent was looking at my reel while he was on the telephone. I was outraged, nearly walked out, because, apart from anything else, I'd been in business 20 years, had a company with 100 people, and this fucker is on the telephone while my reel's going! I decided I wasn't going to win that way, so I paid to have screenplays written. That's how I made my first film, The Duellists.

Playboy: You're 63 years old, and yet youth-obsessed Hollywood considers you a hip director. How do you pull that off?

Scott: I have always been mainstream. My brother is even more than I am, but you have to function with a split brain, be careful of certain mainstream aspects. American Beauty is not really a mainstream movie, but it defied gravity by being a really good piece of work. Did Blade Runner break into the mainstream? No, it was a fucking disaster.

Playboy: What is your favorite scene from a Ridley Scott movie?

Scott: Many flash through my mind. The one I'm thinking of now is Rutger Hauer, giving his speech at the end of Blade Runner, which he ended by saying, "Time to die." That was the last shot of Blade Runner, at 5:45 in the morning, with the actors ready to shoot me in the head. I think the scene of Joaquin Phoenix and Russell in Gladiator, right after the battle, looking at each other at the moment we know both must die, and then we pull off them, go through the gate. That was a really tricky shot that worked.

Playboy: You're leaving out your most famous scene, the one where the alien burst through John Hurt's stomach. Is it true the actors in Alien didn't know what was coming?

Scott: Yeah, I didn't show them what it looked like. That scene was more visceral and action charged, and it worked well. That was kind of unique. Once you've seen the beast, you've seen him. I wanted to get that fresh reaction from them, genuine surprise. What happens is the look of puzzlement, then the what-the-hell-is-that look, and then the acted horror of it. It was five cameras, one shot. John was lying there and even he didn't know what was going to happen, other than that something was going to come out of his chest, poor bugger. But he was there on his knees waiting, going ahhh, just when it popped out. And the others' reactions to it were priceless.

Playboy: People forget you've shot memorable commercials, including the 1984 Apple ad shown during the Super Bowl, and a Chanel No. 5 ad that was heavy on subliminal phallic images. There's been a government backlash over sexy and violent images in commercials and in marketing movies. Are we prudes in the U.S., compared with Britain?

Scott: Sexuality in that Chanel No. 5 ad was effective because it was not specific. I don't think we are becoming prudes here. People tend to believe what they see on the screen, whether it's cinema, TV or the Internet. I think there's a huge danger to that. All these concerns have merit, and what we do is entirely effective and persuasive. Inevitably, there are consequences. The celebration of violence does affect what we think.

Playboy: Have you filmed commercials or features that have gone too far?

Scott: I hadn't really conceived of the actual weight and power of a film until we were previewing Alien. I watched the audience during the kitchen scene, how involved and horrified they became. I'll always remember watching the ending of the previews, the anticipation in their faces, from numb to dread. Then you'd see people thinking about leaving, because they didn't want to go through this experience. So you move from anticipation to terror, to shock, and then I saw anger. They were so upset at that moment that I thought they might leave the theater and have a drink. I can't think of too many other moments like that--the first time you hear Linda Blair's voice in The Exorcist. I should also mention M. Night Shyamalan's The Sixth Sense. He had me going right up until the end, and when it was revealed, I had that feeling where your skin crawls. I hadn't felt that in years.

It makes one turn back and realize the importance of story and character. That's the clay you have. The great scary movies have been The Exorcist, The Omen and The Silence of the Lambs, but the last was more fascinating than scary. Alien was really scary. Sure, there's Scream and films like that, but they're basically fun date movies with big bumps. But to have people involved, staring at the screen with real dread, rarely happens. I think we've become numb because of the overkill.

Playboy: For someone who's patented a distinctive look in films that constantly gets ripped off, what do you think of current movies?

Scott: I think there have been a couple good ones made. X-Men was interesting, The Matrix was a nice mix of story and effects, and Gattaca was a really good movie. What's happened is CGI, the element that has allowed you to do anything in terms of special effects, has become the end in itself. So even though you can show things that are impossible, you don't believe them and they take the heat out of the drama. If I see an actor being blown through a tunnel, grabbing on to a train, it doesn't ring true to me. What's good about Alien is, you don't know where it is. Is it just around the corner? That's what's great about Jaws--you don't see it, and half the time it's what you don't see that makes it really scary. The best scene in Jaws is three guys talking at night, with a bottle of rum, Robert Shaw telling his old war story. And then the boat is nudged. That's a movie. It's all about stories.

The man bhind gladiator, alien and blade runner sinks his teeth into hannibal lecter.