Playboy Interview: Bill Richardson

For many Americans, Democratic presidential caiifliilali1 Hill Richardson, (lie governor of New Mexico, is hesl known for his role as "underset relary oj stale for thugs." as he himself has described it. Richardson—a for­mer congressman, ambassador and secretary of energy—has been tapped by presidents of both parties to lace off with some o\ the most unsavory rulers in the world, including Sad­dam Hussein and lidel Castro. Richardson's unique blend of experience has led columnist Davitl lirooks oj The Kcu< York limes to name him as the Democratic candidate with the most appealing resume: a sitting governor I in a time when four of the past Jive presidents have had statehouse experience) -who also has foreign- and energy-policy credentials.

Richardson s run for president began 60 years ago—on the day he was born. His par­ents lived in Mexico City, where his father was a branch manager for National City Hank of New York. Hut he sent his Mexican wife to Pasadena, California for the birth of their child. This gave Richardson i'.S. citi­zenship and also ensured that he met the con­stitutional requirements for the presidency.

Richardson grew up "between worlds"—as the title o/ his autobiography puts it—shut­tling between his privileged upbringing and friends -who lived in the barrio in Jar more modest circumstances. He attended an exclu­sive boarding school in Massachusetts and

then In/Is L 'niversity. where he was a baseball star and mode his /irsl run for o/jice: he -was elected president of his /ralertiil\.

Riihardsnn v appetite for politics was nurtured ichcn he -worked as a staff aide in Washington, D.C., and his political ambi­tions next led him to move to Mew Mexico, a state where he had never lived, because he saic it as the best place to launch a politi­cal career, In I1J/ slate.) lie left that post to become secretary o/ energy, but his reputation look a hit after a Mini'up over lax security at the Los Alamos nuclear-weapons laboratory. He survived, though, and went on to win his next election, becoming gover­nor oj'New Mexico in 2002. In 2006 he was reelected with nearly 70 percent o/ the vote.

As a Democratic presidential hope/itl in a crowded pack of candidates, however, Richardson /aces daunting obstacles—same oj his own making. Compared with front-running contenders Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, he has far less money. He does not look like the modern model of a

president: unhappily /or his image consul­tant, he admits to struggling with his weight. His physical style o/ campaigning has helped spur rumors—none o/ them accompanied by evidence—that he has a "Clinton problem" will) women. In addition, his propensity for spontaneous "seat-of-lhe-pants" comments (as longtime Washington journalist Robert Novak put it) has brought him grief: he said in a recent debate on Logo, the gay-oriented 71' network, that homosexuality is a choice, only to recant his statement the next day.

i'I.ayhov sent C.HS News senior politi­cal correspondent Jeff Greenfield to inter­view Richardson on the campaign trail in Iowa. New Hampshire and New York. "It takes about 31) seconds to see why Rich­ardson has succeeded in politics." Green­field reports. "With his arm on a voter's shoulder, an easy laugh and an unpreten­tious style oj campaigning—'I'm gelling my shtick down,' he says, using a Yid­dish term he likely did not learn in New Mexico—Richardson is a natural fit with Iowa, where he is pinning his presidential hopes on a strong showing in that jirsl-in-the-nation caucus stale. Even if he does well, he II need to demonstrate a sense of presidential gravitas to become a serious contender. He must also fight the percep­tion thai as a Hispanic governor in the Sou/Invest, where Democrats hope to make

major gai)is, he could he oj more use to his party as a vice-presidential candidate than he would he leading the ticket."

PLAYBOY: First things first. Many pun­dits have said, and early polls have indicated, that the race for your party's nomination is between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. Can you realisti­cally compete with them? RICHARDSON: The media expects an instant breakthrough, but it takes time. I started out under the margin of error. I'm at 13 percent. [At the time of this interview] I'm the only one whose polls are going up. I've had huge crowds in New Hampshire and Iowa. I'm in double dieits in both states. According to CNN

I'm third in New Hampshire. I'm not up with the top two yet, but there are months to go. PLAYBOY: But how do you com­pete against the candidates who receive most of the media attention and have by far the most money?

RICHARDSON: You target your efforts and resources in the two most important states in the race, Iowa and New Hampshire. People there aren't swayed by the smarty-pants set in Wash­ington and New York. PLAYBOY: Why are you a better choice than Obama or Clinton? RICHARDSON: This is a race about change. Who can bring change most effectively? I'm the one who can bring about change. I know how to get things done. I have the most foreign- and domestic-policy experience. It's not just about my resume, either. I've done things to make people's lives better. I have more foreign-policy expe­rience; I'm the only one who has negotiated with a foreign country- All the candidates can talk about voting rights, creat­ing jobs, energy plans, but I've done them. We need to elect candidates who can win in the Southwest, Ohio, Florida and a

little bit of the South. I'm the man who can do that. That differentiates me. So my best argument for being president is my experience—I'm ready to be presi­dent—and my electability. PLAYBOY: You have said you won't con­duct a negative campaign. To differen­tiate yourself, however, don't you have to take on the other candidates? RICHARDSON: I will never go negative. 1 will never attack them personally. I will, however, emphasize my advantage over senators Clinton and Obama. The so-called front-running candidates arrive, do a structured town meeting with a thousand people in a gym and then leave. I go into living rooms and meet people directly. I stay for three

days, go into 10 homes a day, each with 100 people. I connect with people. My message is getting out. My ads are well received. Hell, there was some politi­cal writer who predicted I'll win Iowa. Did you see that? Sou never know. PLAYBOY: Obama and Clinton have been sparring about their ability to tackle international issues. Clinton criticized Obama for saying he would meet with foreign leaders, including some who are perceived as enemies of the U.S., during his first year in office. In your book you write that there's no one you can't talk to, and you have met with high-level ofllcials in North Korea and with Saddam Hus­sein, for example. Would you sit down with Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda?

RICHARDSON: You draw a line with an entity like Al Qaeda that professes to want to kill you. You can't talk to them. I might agree to some kind of media­tion in a situation of dire national emergency but not otherwise. But yes, Obama and Clinton are fighting over whether or not you should talk to a dic­tator. Nobody's bothered to ask me, but I've talked to almost all of them. PLAYBOY: Like Senator Clinton, you sup­ported the invasion of Iraq. You have also said you made a mistake. What exactly would you have us do now? RICHARDSON: I want all troops out of Iraq. Residual troops, too. The other leading candidates don't. They leave in 25,000 or 50,000.

PLAYBOY: But is it realistic? How do you respond to those who say with­drawal will lead to disaster? RICHARDSON: Too many people in Washington have been listening to the wrong military and political advisors. That's why we're in this mess. 1 would shift our priorities. Our obsession with Iraq has cost us the ability to form international coalitions and strategies to deal with international terrorism, nuclear weapons and the like. It may be the greatest cost of the war. PLAYBOY: Then why did you support the invasion?

RICHARDSON: When we invaded 1 said I supported the invasion in order to support the troops. At the time, 1 fell

it was the best thing. As I look back, it was a mistake. At the time, however, I was making public statements and wasn't participating in the decision to invade. The president should have gone to the UN and used diplomacy, but I didn't push hard enough. I should have pushed harder lor diplomacy. But remember, we were also operating on limited informa­tion. At the time. I thought, I don't have all the intelligence; Bush says Saddam has weapons of mass destruction. However. I never bought the Al Qaeda link. So it was a mistake. And what happened afterward was massive incompetence and massive deception. PLAYBOY: How early did you regret your support of the war? RICHARDSON: I knew it was a mistake when we were alone and had no international sup­port and the military operation started going haywire. The incompetence began with the disbanding of the Iraqi army. You could tell it was head­ing for disaster. I could also tell when Bush was reluctant to talk diplomacy with North Korea—in fact, he was reluc­tant to talk to anybody who

disagreed with him.

PLAYBOY: You have proposed an all-Muslim peacekeeping force, but is that realistic? Various (actions in Iraq are determined to annihilate one another. RICHARDSON: I had in mind that Tur­key, |ordan and Egypt would be the main all-Muslim peacekeeping force, financed by the Saudis. You would lit­erally have to force—force—a reconcili­ation of Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds. PLAYBOY: Some experts suggest that's an impossibility. How would you do it? RICHARDSON: Set up divisions and boundaries. Set up a division of oil rev­enues. Use the leverage of withdrawal to make it happen. Invite in Iran and Syria to be guarantors.

PLAYBOY: But how likely is it that factious Middle Eastern governments will work together to stabilize Iraq? RICHARDSON: No country wants a massive civil war in Iraq. Nobody wants thousands of Iraqi refugees. And in addition we're talking about an Iraq that is not exactly helpless. It has had democratic elections and has democratic institutions. It has 330,000 security forces, many of them trained. It has S150 billion in oil reserves. PLAYBOY: Bush says extremists through­out the region hate us because of our freedom. Do you agree? RICHARDSON: They hate us for the inva­sion of Afghanistan. They hate us for challenging their premise as a political and religious entity. They see disrupt­ing our strength in the Middle East and Iraq as a way to gain power. It's all about power. It's all about building a military and political entity that will rival Amer­ica. They see themselves as a messianic force with military capability to pro­mote the most radical Al Qaeda agenda. I believe it is a fundamental clash for control of the minds of the masses in the Muslim world. It's an attempt by Al Qaeda and messianic religious groups to control land and property and use them in the name of religion. PLAYBOY: Is it possible to negotiate with people who have that goal? RICHARDSON: It's a tough one. Congru­ent interests brought us to the table even with Chairman Mao in China. His basic premise was the reaction of a civilization that was the antithesis of the West. But congruent interests brought us to the table. I don't see that we have congru­ent interests with Bin Laden. Al Qaeda is a radical movement, and we need a foreign policy that is ready to light it. PLAYBOY: President Bush would agree with you. How is your view different? RICHARDSON: I think you fight it with an international coalition. You fight it with superior intelligence. We have missed the boat on this by focusing on Iraq. We made it worse, in fact, by bringing AJ Qaeda elements into Iraq. Instead we should be building international coali­tions, writing agreements with Russia that control uranium and plutonium, negotiating with the North Koreans— talking to them directly—so they don't build more nuclear weapons. We need strategies to deal with these transna­tional movements that adversely affect our interests, whether they are tribal and ethnic warfare, international ter­rorism or weapons of mass destruc­tion and nuclear terrorism. I would throw global climate change in there, too. I also believe we need to wage war against international poverty. PLAYBOY: How about closer to home? With his documentary Sicko, Michael Moore brought the issue of health care to the forefront. How would you tackle it? RICHARDSON: I'm for a mandate; everybody shares the costs. Massachusetts is doing it.

California is considering it. We're starting in New Mexico. Everybody shares, which reduces the costs for everybody. My goal is universal health care, and I believe we can achieve it. The S2.2 trillion we spend on health care is 17 percent of our GDP. yet we have 47 million uninsured. Canada and other countries are spending eight to 10 percent of their GDP and cover everyone. I don't want to see any new bureaucracy, however. We're strangled with bureaucracy. I wrant people to have a choice of health care plans. PLAYBOY: How exactly would you pro­ceed if elected?

RICHARDSON: The first week I'm president I would take on three issues, and we would have to come up with solutions—biparti­san solutions. One is Iraq. We've got to get out. The second is our $9 trillion deficit. Third is Social Security and Medicare. PLAYBOY: For the latter two, Americans want solutions but don't necessarily want to pay for them. RICHARDSON: My deficit plan is a constitu­tional amendment. For health care and

Social Security, I would appoint a bipar­tisan cabinet that includes Democrats, Republicans and independents. I would draw people from outside the Beltway. PLAYBOY: With health care, however, you want to increase coverage without rais­ing taxes. How would you pay for the plan? The U.S. comptroller general says Medicare will be nonsustainable when the wave of baby boomers retire. RICHARDSON: The first point 1 would address is Medicare. Yes, we have a fiscal crisis starting in 2045 with both Medicare and Social Security. We need to finance them. I'd say to the Repub­licans, "Let's keep politics out of it. Let's lake it on, along with reducing the debt and getting out of Iraq." PLAYBOY: But how exactly would you fix Medicare?

RICHARDSON: I believe we can pay for my health care plan. It's been costed out. About $110 billion in savings would hap­pen with my plan. I would permit nego­tiations of pharmaceuticals on Medicare. That would lower costs. I would put

cost controls on insurance companies to cover 85 percent of care. Today we spend $2.2 trillion on health care, yet 31 percent of that goes into overhead, the lack of electronic records and HMO and insur­ance padding. Shifting that 31 percent to direct care will account for a lot of savings. According to the RAND Corporation, if you create electronic records, you can save about $80 billion in health care, so we'll do that. And a good chunk of the $450 billion we spent on Iraq would go to domestic needs like health care. Those are some of the things I would do. Also, I'd get rid of congressional earmarks, which would save $23 billion a year. Lastly, I'd have a national commission—similar to the base-closure commission—look at the $73 billion in corporate welfare. I think those would be enough savings to pay for my health care plan. PLAYBOY: How about Social Security? RICHARDSON: We'll have to look at caps lor Social Security. We're going to have to reject what we do now—raid the Social Security trust fund. We'll have to abandon the idea of privatizing, because that's very risky. Another option is link­ing Social Security to the budget; today it isn't linked. We also need to look at uni­versal pensions and universal 401(k)s. PLAYBOY: As governor of New Mexico, you have a close-up look at our border with Mexico. How would you control the borders? You have said you don't want a fence. What would you do to stop the flow across the border? RICHARDSON: I'll first tell you what I did as governor. I proposed doubling the number of border-patrol agents, which is consistent with a 9/11 Commission rec­ommendation. I can easily see 15,000 at the border. Right now it isn't adequately protected. I would extend the tour of the National Guard. Many of us had reserva­tions about using the Guard for this, but it seems to be working; they're deterring the flow. I would also increase the detec­tion equipment at the border. My worst nightmare is nuclear material—uranium, plutonium—being transported by a ter­rorist across the border. And two years ago I angered a lot of Hispanic and immi­grant groups by being the first governor to declare a border emergency. At the time, the border patrol was almost non­existent in my quarter. There were drugs coming in. violence—the flow was huge. I declared a border emergency, which enabled me as governor to hire local law enforcement. I took state appropriations to pay for law enforcement at the border, which is essentially a federal function. Also, I vetoed legislation that said local law enforcement couldn't cooperate with federal law enforcement agencies. PLAYBOY: What about global warm­ing? What would you do differently to tackle it?

RICHARDSON: We need a national effort related to energy. We have to make the massive shift to renewable fuels and

renewable energy. I was one of the first members of Congress to put ethanol on the table. There's nothing wrong with building an infrastructure of ethanol production in the Midwest that would create jobs and also shift us to a renew­able energy source. I want to be more energy efficient when it comes to use, too, for mass transit, appliances, lighting, air-conditioning, washing machines— everything. I will lead a national move­ment calling for a citizen-action plan for individuals and communities. I have a concept for national service—it's not mandatory but has incentives—that involves cleaning up parks and urban areas and being more energy efficient. I would tell auto companies they have to be at 50 miles a gallon by 2020. PLAYBOY: Some experts say one way to get to alternative energy is to keep the price of gasoline high, with rebates for low-income people. Would you try this? RICHARDSON: 1 think there are better ways to do it. I strongly believe we've got to set some concrete goals with enforce­able mandates. My energy plan says we should reduce petroleum use by 50 per-

cent by 2020 and reduce greenhouse-gas emissions by 80 percent by 2040, with mandates and caps. I'm ready to tell the American people they'll need to sacrifice a little bit when it comes to energy efficiency and conservation. I'm going to ask the American people to be a lot more energy conscious. It will mean a few inconveniences here and there, but we don't want our oil supply controlled by OPEC. We need to do this, and 1 say this: I'm going to ask you to sacrifice a little bit. If Congress passes 35-miles-a-gallon fuel efficiency, that's pathetic. It should be 50. Detroit has the technology, and I don't mind giving Detroit incen­tives to achieve it.

PLAYBOY: How would you respond to people who question whether your expe­rience as governor is transferable to the presidency? Is it?

RICHARDSON: Yes. In order to get legisla­tion passed, you have to build coalitions, sometimes unusual ones. In New Mexico we worked together to improve educa­tion and cut taxes. I was able to make our economy stronger. If we are to achieve the goals I want to achieve as president,

we'll have to build coalitions similar to those in New Mexico, coalitions of citi­zens and private-interest groups and community groups and 501(c)(3) non-profits and churches. You need them if you are going to take on, for example, the pharmaceutical companies and other big-interest lobbies, and I'm going to fight them fiercely.

PLAYBOY: You sound as if you relish the fight, and you have said you love politics. What exactly do you love about it? RICHARDSON: I love the physical side, the intellectual side and the side that touches humanity. It fulfills your sense of achieve­ment. You feel, I can make a difference. I can make people's lives better. I even enjoy the parades. I love the one-on-one, the handshaking—the living-room politics America seems to have degraded because of television and other technolo­gies. It's why I'm committing to an inten­sive schedule. The more people I meet, the more I can convince: one-on-one politics, looking people in the eve and squeezing their hand, trying to deal with their concerns and give them a sense of hope. When I leave them I want them to think, Maybe this guy can make my life a little better.

PLAYBOY: Where did you gel your love of politics?

RICHARDSON: I think it came from when I was growing up in Mexico City. My father was well-off, but most of my friends were kids from a poor barrio. Their zeal to succeed stayed with me. Many didn't have shoes, which made me see that the world is unjust. I was affected by the writings of Bobbv Ken­nedy. He was very clear about where he stood in helping the poor. Also, I had a grandmother who instilled in me very strong Catholic Church values about helping the poor and downtrodden and standing up against injustice. That always stayed with me. PLAYBOY: During the past several years, you've seen middle-income Americans steadily move away from your party. What happened to the Democratic Party, and can you fix it?

RICHARDSON: We've become the party of the poor instead of the party of the middle class. I believe we have to help the poor, but we forgot about middle-class anxieties. We forgot about job security and pension security and health care and safety nets. We forgot about college tuition. We became so enamored with the politics of redistribu­tion and class warfare that we forgot about the middle class and responsible tax cuts and economic growth and putting money in people's pockets. We forgot about being the party of high tech and space and medi­cine and a can-do attitude. PLAYBOY: In 2000 Bush won the white working-class vote by huge majorities. Even in economically good times, people seem to have deserted the Democrats. RICHARDSON: I think there was a perception that Republicans would

protect voters, and it was a national security issue.

PLAYBOY: Even in 2000, before the 9/11 attacks?

RICHARDSON: In 2000 our party made a tactical mistake. We should have run under the banner of economic prosper­ity; instead, we ran under a banner of populism. It was totally out of sync with a country that had a balanced budget, a surplus and prosperity. Al Gore got bad advice from a bunch of consultants who were trying to make him into a populist when he was a new-generation Demo­crat. He should have run on prosperity, on internationalism, on a surplus— "Times are good, and I'm going to continue them." Instead he went into class warfare. But it was not Al. He was harangued into doing it. His instincts were always right. Look at what he's done on global warming. He's proven to be a great national hero. PLAYBOY: His instincts may have been right in that case, but weren't they wrong when he listened to the people harangu­ing him? Isn't that his responsibility? RICHARDSON: Yeah, sure. He had too many consultants. At least eight or nine. I have one. And I don't pay attention to him. [laughs]

PLAYBOY: It has been said that when Lyn­don Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act, he feared the South would be lost to Democrats for a generation. Has that prediction proved accurate? RICHARDSON: No. I don't think so. I just think after Johnson we stopped think­ing. We stopped being creative. We relied too much on the civil rights days, on the New Deal, on JFK, and we weren't think­ing like new-generation Democrats. We were thinking of the politics of spending and redistribution. That's where we lost our way. We didn't adapt to the times, and Republicans then came up with their simple slogans: "We're pro-military, we're against taxes, we're pro-church." We didn't know how to respond. We were flailing away, trying to retain the past. PLAYBOY: Wasn't Bill Clinton a new Democrat?

RICHARDSON: He's the one who recap­tured our sense of what I think a new Democrat is. He brought us back, but then we reverted to populism. PLAYBOY: Is that bad? Aren't you a populist?

RICHARDSON: I am, but my God, if you have a prosperous president who bal­ances a budget and you repudiate that, it makes no sense.

PLAYBOY: In the past few elections, the most reliable indicator of how an Amer­ican votes is whether he or she is reli­giously observant. Two thirds of regular churchgoers voted Republican, whereas two thirds of more casual and nonobser-vant people voted Democrat. How did that happen?

RICHARDSON: 1 don't know, but it could be that the Christian right was more effec-

tive in organizing and bringing peo­ple into its fold. Unfortunately for the average voter, the Republicans painted Democrats as antichurch. It was not a legitimate argument, but it worked. Wedge issues and attack ads worked. PLAYBOY: Hillary Clinton made a speech some months ago in which she said abor­tion is a tragedy. She said, in effect, that we need to respect the views of the pro-life community. Do you share the view that Democrats have been too closely identified as pro-choice? RICHARDSON: No. I am strongly pro-choice. I've always been pro-choice, to the consternation of my bishops in New Mexico. As president I would have a national goal to reduce abortions, and I'd promote strong adoption proce­dures. I would encourage family plan­ning. But I wouldn't apologize for my position on choice.

PLAYBOY: John Kerry's archbishop threat­ened to deny him the sacrament of com­munion because of his views on abortion. Has yours?

RICHARDSON: No. I have a good relation­ship with my church. In fact, my sense of

justice was shaped by my Catholic reli­gion. Not long ago my archbishop con­vinced me to pursue a larger increase in the minimum wage. He said, "Come on, how can anybody live on $5.15 an hour? Go for the max." We did. A sense of social justice led me to agree with what he said. My advisors were saying, "Do it in stages. Index it." But we went to the full amount and won. So my sense of justice has evolved from my church as well as my grandmother, who was very religious and made me go to church as a child. She made me go to communion every Sunday. She made me go to confession. I consider myself a good Catholic. 1 go to church as much as I can. But I don't wear reli­gion on my sleeve. I believe you've got to respect individual beliefs. PLAYBOY: Some critics say Democrats are too close to the elites on both coasts and in Hollywood.

RICHARDSON: We have to broaden our base. Too often we have nominated candidates who may be very strong in New England and Los Angeles and San Francisco but are unelectable in the great in-between. I resent some elites

telling me my position on gun control is wrong, for example. It's a cultural issue in New Mexico and the West, a respect for a way of life. Most gun owners are law-abiding. I'm not going to change my position. That's where I may deviate from others in my party, too, the elites on the coasts. I have very common tastes. PLAYBOY: Tastes such as? RICHARDSON: I like sports. I'm a regu­lar person. I don't make any pretenses. I like the arts—I like modern art—but I'd rather spend time watching a foot­ball game or a baseball game. I go to the opera and leave at intermission. I like to smoke a cigar.

PLAYBOY: In California, Governor .Arnold Schwarzenegger has constructed a smoking tent in a courtyard outside his office. Do you have something similar in New Mexico?

RICHARDSON: No. I don't, but my wife doesn't want me smoking indoors, so there's already a special room outside the governor's mansion where I smoke. I also strongly advocated a smoking ban, by the way.

PLAYBOY: If elected, would you put a smoking tent in the Rose Garden? RICHARDSON: It would have to be a very unostentatious tent. [laughs] PLAYBOY: If it's a weekend and you're not working or campaigning, what do you do?

RICHARDSON: I spend time with Bar­bara, my wife. We have a normal break­fast, lunch and dinner. I ride my horse, Sundance. I'll ride for three hours. It's the only time I can be alone with myself. I like the solitude. I also work out for an hour and a half to make up for excessive eating during the campaign. I try to go to a concert or a baseball game. We have a Triple-A baseball team in .Albuquerque, the Isotopes. Or I try to go to a fight, sometimes sneaking away to Las Vegas for a boxing match or concert. PLAYBOY: Do you hit the casinos? RICHARDSON: No, I'm not a gambler. I'm just not into it.

PLAYBOY: As a baseball fan, what is your view on the controversy over Barry Bonds and the use of performance-enhancing drugs?

RICHARDSON: There's no question Bonds is a great player and should be in the Hall of Fame. But I believe there should be some kind of an asterisk placed along­side his record. It should say, "There is a strong possibility that he used ste­roids." Nonetheless, he should be hon­ored. My hero growing up was Mickey Mantle. Years later I was shocked when he got up at a press conference when he was going to die and said, "I'm sorry for all the adultery, for causing pain to my wife. I'm sorry for the heavy drinking." Then he said something that was most poignant. "And to all those kids whose autographs I didn't sign, that you sent me, I'm sorrv."

PLAYBOY: Tim Russert of Meet the Press claims you have said you are a fan of both the Yankees and the Red Sox, sug­gesting you have tried to pander to New Yorkers and Bostonians. Well? RICHARDSON: I was asked, "What is your favorite team?" The Red Sox. Another time, the Associated Press asked, "If you weren't running for president, who would you rather be at this moment?" I said, "I would like to be number 7, center field for the New York Yankees, Mickey Mantle." So they asked, "Is he a Yankees fan or a Red Sox fan?" When I was growing up in Mexico City, the Red Sox didn't exist. The Yankees were the universal team. Mickey Mantle was the hero of kids around the world. It was as if the Yankees were America's team. But when 1 went to New England, to Mid­dlesex and then to Tufts, I became an ardent Red Sox fan.

PLAYBOY: At a time when every aspect of a politician's life is scrutinized, are you con­cerned about where this could lead for you and your family? If a reporter asked you a question like that, would you ever reply, "That's just none of your business." RICHARDSON: Certain areas are private and personal, even for a president. But I don't know what those are anymore. PLAYBOY: Before you threw your hat into the ring, did you and your wife discuss the loss of privacy?

RICHARDSON: We had those talks. We said, "It may get dirty," sure. I'm pre­pared to undertake the scrutiny. I was confirmed twice, unanimously, by the Senate. I went through FBI checks for security clearances. I've been in 15 cam­paigns. I was vetted for vice president, and the Kerry people found nothing disqualifying. There are always rumors, but my life is an open book. Do I wel­come the scrutiny? Not always, but I have nothing to hide. PLAYBOY: In the past, you have been asked about the fact that you have no children. Do you worry someone may try to use that against you in the campaign? RICHARDSON: Somebody once used it against me or once implied it in a race. The explanation is that Barbara and I tried to have children but weren't able to. We tried. We tried in vitro. It's one of our great regrets. If you look at a lot of my career, especially as governor, there's an emphasis on children. I feel I'm responsible for all children. PLAYBOY: Why didn't you and your wife adopt a child?

RICHARDSON: We were always moving. I was in Congress, commuting back to New Mexico. I went to the UN in 1997; I became secretary of energy a year after that. I went into the private sector, and then two years later I was running for governor. Time passed us by. PLAYBOY: You invested $100,000, an inheritance from your family, in your first campaign for Congress. Did you and vour wife discuss that, too?

Richardson: Yes. I told her, "We have to do it, or we're going to lose," and she said, "Let's go for it. It's our only chance." So we went for broke.

PLAYBOY: Mam- Americans are cynical about politics and politicians. Were you ever? RICHARDSON: Politicians have a bad name, but to me politics is a noble business. There are those of us in public service who try to do the right thing. 1 always have. I've always taken risks. I've always cast tough votes.

PLAYBOY: What are examples of your tough votes?

RICHARDSON: I'm a Democrat and I promoted tax cuts. I helped get rid of cockfighting, though I should have done that earlier. I did these things and never thought about how my actions would play in Iowa or New Hampshire. I supported medical marijuana use after people with cancer came up to me and asked about it. I was persuaded by them. I'm a good listener. I said I would push for it.

PLAYBOY: You pushed to eliminate mari­juana use at your fraternity when you were its president. Why?

RICHARDSON: I thought it was wrong. I was worried the fraternity would be decertified. A dean had warned me that the house was going to be raided. He said, "We see a lot of marijuana waft­ing out of there." It wasn't a sense of morality; I didn't want the house to be shut down. I had a confrontation with a couple of guys who were smoking. I won the confrontation but was almost ousted. I won even that election—for president of the fraternity—by pushing for things that weren't necessarily popular. I wanted the fraternity to be more relevant. 1 said we had to participate in charity, we had to learn about the world—to invite the Black Panthers in to talk, for instance. It was the time of Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King and the Vietnam war. I said, "We can't just drink and go to football games." On that platform I narrowly won.

PLAYBOY: And did you inhale? RICHARDSON: No, I never did. I was really straight. I never tried it. I was a square. I was a baseball jock.

PLAYBOY: David Brooks reported that you prefer the Beach Boys to Janis Jop-

lin. What other music do you listen to? RICHARDSON: I still love the Beach Boys. 1 went to see them in Las Vegas a cou­ple of months ago. The drummer said they'd do an event for me. My tastes are eclectic. I love the Eagles, I love the Beach Boys, I love Toby Keith. I named one of my horses after Toby Keith: he's a friend. We probably disagree on most issues, but 1 like George Strait. He's campaigned for Republicans, but I don't care.

PLAYBOY: Have you always had a secret desire, even a plan, to run for president? RICHARDSON: I decided I wanted to be president when 1 came to understand the power I had as a governor to set the agenda. The desire to be president came from a desire to do the right thing—to do what I can for this country. It's not about acquiring power but about doing the right thing, making a difference. PLAYBOY: Are you discouraged at times? Do you ever think of quitting the race? RICHARDSON: There are times when it's hard to wake up—I want another 10 minutes of sleep. My first reaction is. My God, I've got to get up because I'm going to be late and I'm going to lose votes. I never think. The hell with all this. PLAYBOY: Have any of your political advi­sors cautioned you against colloquial­isms like the ones you use in your book? Hob shit, for example? RICHARDSON: [Laughs] Yeah, I swear. Yeah, I smoke a cigar occasionally. Yeah, I make mistakes. The American people should know who 1 am. I'm overweight; I'm trying to lose weight. But I'm com­fortable with who I am. I don't mope around at night worrying that I didn't look good on Jay I.eno—though I saw myself, and though I've lost 30 pounds I've got to lose more. PLAYBOY: Bill Glinton was a president who famously loved Big Macs and french fries and struggled with his weight. He also was a governor who liked to spend time with his constituents. Do you try to emu­late him? Do you see similarities between you and him?

RICHARDSON: 1 don't try to imitate him. This has always been my style. But yes, there's a little bit of Bill Clinton in me. One of the things that used to drive me nuts about him, though, was how he would try to convince his enemies he was a good guy. He'd sometimes spend more time talking to his enemies than to his friends. I don't believe I'm like that, but 1 do believe you try to seek common ground in order to convince somebody. PLAYBOY: After Clinton, the next two Democratic presidential candidates, Gore and Kerry, were criticized for being elitist and out of touch with the citizenry. Do you agree with the charge? RICHARDSON: I believe a lot of people were more comfortable with George W. Bush than they were with John Kerry, yes. PLAYBOY: Did you ever try to talk to Gore (concluded on page 174)

BILL RICHARDSON

(continued from page 76) or Kerry about ways they might better connect with people? RICHARDSON: No. I didn't have much con­tact with them. Once, Kerry and I were campaigning in New Mexico. I said, "Put on this cowboy hat. I think we can get some votes out of this.' He said, "Nah, I don't want to." It struck me. I'm not sure he would have gotten more votes, but it would have been a nice gesture in some of the rural areas where he was trounced. My sense is that Kerry was a lot better in smaller groups. I once saw him on a train with a group of Native Americans. He was very good. He did seem aloof at times, but up close he was good. It's one difference I can point out between myself and the other candidates this time: I connect better with ordinary people. My whole theme is that I'm like Bobby Kennedy. He is the politician I admire most.

PLAYBOY: How are you like him? RICHARDSON: I'm not comparing myself to him, but here's a guy who came from a privileged background, was sincere in his beliefs about doing something, thought big, believed strongly in touching people, talked about human rights and tried to bring the better good out of people. The more I seek this office, the more I admire what he did. The Kennedys always wanted to

make the world better. I like politics, but the reason is to do the right thing. You can't do the right thing without having some power, without being elected. Part of retaining that power is helping your friends but also help­ing good causes. In New Mexico there may be the best macro arguments to put a facility in an urban area; it's more cost-effective. But if I can help a little town and it's not as cost-effective, I'll help the little town. I've done that. So there's a little bit of idealism in me. I'm not a total pragmatist. PLAYBOY: Some, like Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, were known as policy wonks. Others, like Ronald Reagan, left much of the details to their staffs. What about you?

RICHARDSON: I'm both, I think. I am an intensive reader of briefing books. I am intensively involved in policy in my state. I am very intellectually curious. I've been called somebody who micromanages, who knows everything not just about the policy but the personnel of my state. Am I a policy wonk? Am I as brilliant as Jimmy Carter? No. But do I study issues, do I read my briefing papers? Yes. Do I think of innovative policies myself? Sometimes I do. But I also believe a major part of the presidency is the bully pulpit, build­ing support for what you're trying to do and communicating. As governor, I found I could set the agenda. It's how you change policy. The job is to inspire

and motivate the electorate. The presi­dency is the governorship magnified a hundred times.

PLAYBOY: You have mentioned your meet­ings with international political leaders several times. Who is the most compel­ling head of state you have met? RICHARDSON: Fidel Castro has an enor­mously powerful intellect and is well informed. He told me he reads every newspaper, sees every morning broad­cast and reads prodigiously. He showed me all the books he read. While I have enormous dislike for his policies—espe­cially human rights; he incarcerates everybody who disagrees with him—he is a fascinating character who tries to intimidate you with his intellect. Saddam Hussein, on the other hand, tried to intimidate me with his physical actions. He would try to stare me down. He had a bunch of the Revolutionary Guard around us. He was heavily armed. His gestures were menacing. But through his intellect, Castro would try to destroy every argument I made about why he should take certain steps. PLAYBOY: Who are the best contemporary American politicians? RICHARDSON: I've never seen more grace­ful and natural politicians than Bill Clin­ton and Henry Cisneros. I never felt I knew more than Clinton did on any subject we ever discussed. Every time he looked at me, I felt I was the most impor­tant person who ever existed. He had that hold on people. Cisneros would magne­tize a crowd.

PLAYBOY: Who has less than impressed you?

RICHARDSON: I had good relations with Ollie North, Don Imus, Sean Han-nity—people you'd think would make me cringe. I find common ground with people. Recently I talked to Trent Lott. I called him after he was elected whip. I don't believe politics should get personal, which is why I think 1 could be a good president. I can bring people together. I can get Republican support. I believe you can bridge gaps despite enormous philosophical differences. PLAYBOY: American politicians seem ter­rified of admitting anything negative. Would you tell Americans the truth even if the news were bad? RICHARDSON: I would. We have for so long practiced the politics of conve­nience and easy answers—the politics of nonsacrifice—Americans are no longer accustomed to political leaders asking for sacrifice for the common good. In my judgment, this has caused a yearn­ing in Americans for somebody to ask them. They want to be inspired. They want someone who will say, "Look, we've got to make some choices and some tough decisions." I sense there's a yearning for leadership by somebody who'll tell it like it is.

A candid conversation with the Democratic presidential hopeful about all the big issues: ivar, energy, immigration, abortion and, of course, baseball

/ can wake people's lives

better. I love the one-on-

on e, the handshaking—the

living-room politics America

seems to have degraded

because of television.

/ resent some elites telling

me my position on gun

control is wrong, for example.

It's a cultural issue in New

Mexico and the West, a

respect for a way of life.

/ supported medical marijuana use after people with cancer

came up to me and ashed about it. I was persuaded by

them. I'm a good listener.

I said I would push for it.