Playboy Classic: Jay Z

/i LOOK.

back at our

classic 2003

interview with

hip-hop's

most enduring

and respected

artist

When l»l UHci^ interviewed rapper, producer and entrepreneur Jay-Z in 2(X)3, we dubbed him "the Don Corleone of rap...a street-hardened former drug dealer who drinks Cristal, smokes cigars and trusts almost no one. Kspecially women." Others have described him as "(lie hip-hop Sinatra." hip-hop's "reigning kingpin" and. contradicting his often-reported-on swagger, "a grown-up, levelheaded, career-minded adult who has stayed at the top of the charts."

The last is indisputable. Jay-Z has sold more than 50 million albums and has a net worth of more than 8450 million. He holds the record for the most number-one albums by a solo artist, has won 14 (irammys and founded a successful record label. His ventures transcend music. Jay-Z is part owner of the Brooklyn Nets NBA team, has a line of clothing (Kocaweur) and last year launched Life + Times, a popular website.

Almost a decade after our interview, Jay-Z remains one of the most successful and relevant artists in music. Last year's Watch the Throne, a collaboration with Kanye West, debuted at number one and has sold 1.5 million copies to date. He has also remained newsworthy for his life outside music. He's been lambasted for his ego—he's called himself llova, god of the microphone. Bill O'Reilly accused him of damaging children with cursing and "corrosive lyrics." to which Jay-Z replied. "Fuck Bill O'Reilly."

When our interviewer. Contributing Kditor Rob Tannenbaum, asked Jay-Z about a rumor thai he was dating Beyonee. the rapper was coy. admitting that yes, he'd like her to be his girlfriend. He usually seems to get what he wants: they married in 2008. and this year they had a child. Blue Ivy Carter. Jay-Z. now 42. has repeatedly announced his retirement and claimed that "you can't be a rapper at 50," but there's no sign he'll be disappearing anytime soon.

Excerpted from the April 2003 issue

PLAYBOY: Rap careers are usually over fast: one or two hits, then styles change and a new guy comes along. Why have you endured while other rappers haven't? JAY-Z: 1 would say that it's from still being able to relate to people. It's natural to lose yourself when you have success, to start surrounding yourself with fake people. In The 4H Iaihs of Power, it says the worst thing you can do is build a fortress around yourself. I still got the people who grew up with me, my cousin and my childhood friends. This guy right here [gestures to the studio manager], he's my friend, and he told me that one of my records, Volume 3, was wack. People set higher standards for me, and I love it.

PLAYBOY: But we were just in a chauffeured car. on our way to free courlside seats at a Nets game, and we saw your new music video playing on BKT. JAY-Z: Yeah, [laughs] I'm still separated. You

told me to separate—I'm still looking in on that guy. Like. Wow, that guy's doing it! PLAYBOY: So how can people relate to you when \ou possess so many things they don't have? JAY-Z: I've been through a lot ol things, so I could w rile songs oil memory lor another four years. PLAYBOY: You refer to yourself as "the $4rinl 2. Is that an accurate number? JAY-Z: I don't know the math. How'd I get that number? I might be past that by now. PLAYBOY: We bet you know exactly how much you have at any given moment. JAY-Z: Kveryone should, don't you think? Especially in rap music. There's nothing worse than putting in all this work and waking up broke. I've seen it happen, and 1 vowed it wont happen to me.

PLAYBOY: Jam Master Jay of Run-DMC died broke. How does that happen? JAY-Z: I always have to blame it on the accountants. They have to be tough; they have to be willing to quit if a guy calls up and says, "I want to buy a new car." PLAYBOY: I lave any of your accountants ever said no to you?

JAY-Z: I (ire my accountant every year. Every lime I pay taxes, he's fired. Uncle Sam did not go in that recording booth with me. He didn't bang his head against the wall until he came up with the hook lor "Hovi Baby.' It's crazy, the checks that I send to the government, for nothing. And then my accountant says. "Be happy that you're fortunate enough to cut this check." Oh yeah? Fuck you! You're fucking fired! Thai's my response. Then I hired him back, because he's right.

PLAYBOY: All thai money, and you slill release records more often than any other rapper. Why work so hard? Is it just for the money? JAY-Z: I'm doing it for the artistry. I'm doing it to try new things, to create, to invent. I'm a guy who wants to see rap go further, even after me. I want people to open their minds, start making different types of music. Don't follow what's going on. That's what hip-hop is al>out. It's a rebellious voice. You're going left? Then I'm going right. Bui say it like this: |.vmw.s| I'm going right. PLAYBOY: How did growing up in ihe Marcy Projects shape you?

JAY-Z: It was a poor neighlwrhood. but you learned loyalty and integrity. You learned to respect other people, because it was a minefield. If you disrespect somebody or act dishonorable, you gel hurt. Somebody puts you in your place. So I learned integrity, It's a heaulilul place to grow up. as far as having honor. PLAYBOY: Was il dangerous? JAY-Z: It wasn't sale. Kveryone then* was poor and trying to get ahead. There was not much hope. Everyone's on top of everybody else. That's a powder keg. Then crack hit around 1985. You had so many people strung out. I mean, everybody. Il was an epidemic. PLAYBOY: And have those projects changed since you were a kid?

JAY-Z: [Shaken his head] There's no lawyers, no doctors, no psychiatrists. Everyone thai makes money moves out. They just go. I want to tell kids, "Yo, I'm Jay-Z...." Not even Jay-Z. "I'm Shawn Carter, from 5C. I lived in that building right there, the one you live in now. And it can happen for you. (continued on page 130)

JAY-Z'S

STYLE

EV

LUTION

Armed with an encyclopedic knowledge of

fashion and impeccable style, Jay-Z is hip-hop's resident sartorialist. The man can rock a four-in-hand cravat and a pin-striped Savile Row suit one day and a plain black T-shirt with a $25,000 ostrich-skin backpack the next-all while avoiding looking like (a) a banker or (b) a tool. But the mogul isn't merely dressing for the paparazzi. Jay-Z's lyrics are peppered with more knowing references to Prada, Gucci and Maison Martin Margiela than a lecture at Parsons School of Design. Forthwith, a time line of Jay-Z's ever-evolving personal style and obsession with fashion.

"I moved from LEVI'S to GUESS to VERSACE. Now its

diamonds like LIBERACE."

—"Coming of Age"

his platinum selling dBbut album, hie Doubt. His lyrics are fashion forward.

"Say bye to REEBOK, say hi to CHANEL. Say hi to GUCCI, PRADAas well

—"Get Your Mind Right Mami"

Launches his own fashion line, Rocawear, with partner Damon Dash.

"FRESH to death. Head to toe till the day I rest. And I don't wear JERSEYS, I'm 30 plus. Give me a crisp pair of JEANS,

nigga, button-ups."

—"What More Can I Say"

i president of Def Jam Recordings, where he helps launch rs of Rihanna and Kanye West. Amps up his CEO style.

"NORTH BEACH LEATHERS,

matching GUCCI SWEATER.

GUCCI SNEAKS on to keep my

outfit together."

—"Blue Magic"

ocawear to Iconix for lillian cash,

"I know you riding with a nigga through the GUCCI store, all through PRADA, but

what if I had nada?"

—"When the Money Goes"

cture of his $925 Maison argiela high-tops.

"New watch alert,

HUBLOTS. Drthe big-face

Roley, I got two of those."

—"Otis"

¦Bd to be working on a deal with xury watchmaker Hublot.

JAY-Z

(continued from page 112) PLAYBOY: Like you, most of the kids you grew up with didn't have fathers. JAY-Z: I could name the ones who did. [laughs] There were about three in the whole project.

PLAYBOY: Your dad split when you were 11. What happens when a boy grows up without a dad?

JAY-Z: He learns how to be a man in the streets. Everyone needs that role model, that blueprint, to guide you through. Depending on your environment, it could be a bad thing.

PLAYBOY: You've talked about your dad in a few songs, especially "Where Have You Been."

JAY-Z: In hindsight, I was hard on the guy in a lot of songs. At that time, everyone was leaving. They were leaving before the kid was born. He wasn't totally a scumbag—not totally. After those songs, I told my mom I wanted to talk to him. I can't keep living in the past. My mom got in touch with him. The first time he was supposed to come to my house, he didn't come. I figured it was embarrassing for him, going to his son's house. I got mad again. Like, "All right, forget it, then! I ain't reaching out no more!" Then my mom told me he was finally ready to come over, and we just kicked it—I told him everything that was on my mind. And we shook hands, like men. PLAYBOY: You went to high school with Notorious B.I.G. How did you end up recording together?

JAY-Z: We always said we was going to do something together, and I was doing my first album, so we went into the studio and did "Brooklyn's Finest." He was sitting there, trying to memorize. After that, we spoke every day.

PLAYBOY: Who do you think killed Biggie? JAY-Z: I don't know, man. I have no idea. [pause] I don't want to further that. I don't want to talk about what I think. PLAYBOY: Did Biggie's death, and Tupac's, make you more cautious about starting beefs with people?

JAY-Z: No, because I don't believe either one of them got killed over rap music. That was just something to help the media sell magazines.

PLAYBOY: They were both rappers. They both got shot. So obviously they pissed off someone. JAY-Z: Not rapping.

PLAYBOY: What did you think of the Los Angeles Times story last year that said Biggie paid gang members to kill Tupac? JAY-Z: That was irresponsible-journalism bullshit. It's terrible to throw dirt on a guy's name who's not here. If it would have been about a politician, or somebody else powerful, there would be lawsuits. There would be hell to pay. It's a lack of respect when they deal with rappers. PLAYBOY: The guy who has cornered the market on disrespecting rap music is Bill O'Reilly.

JAY-Z: He's just doing shock TV. Now he knows, "Oh shit, the power of hip-hop—if I say something about them, my ratings go right up."

PLAYBOY: Would you ever go on his show

and explain your point of view?

JAY-Z: Why? He don't care. He's doing

what he do—he's feeding his family. It's not

about his understanding. I don't believe he

wants to understand. It's obvious he's not

researching the truth.

PLAYBOY: You say that you're going to

record only one more album, but you

have been talking about retiring since

your first record.

JAY-Z: You don't understand. When I said

Reasonable Doubt was going to be my first

and only album, I meant it. "He made one

album, then,puff, he's gone with the wind."

But now I really mean it. Write the book,

release The Black Album, go head Universal.

PLAYBOY: And maybe do a guest spot on

other people's records?

JAY-Z: Not a guest spot at 50. That's

disrespectful. That's just embarrassing.

PLAYBOY: You can't be a rapper at 50?

JAY-Z: No, forget it. Just a guru.

PLAYBOY: Only one rapper has sold more

records than you: Eminem. Is that because

he's white?

JAY-Z: He's an extraordinary talent. He's a

genius, bottom line. But race has something

to do with it. If you listen to his record

"White America," he addresses that topic.

PLAYBOY: He says if he were black, he'd

have sold half as many records.

JAY-Z: Right. It might be less than that, [laughs]

PLAYBOY: So who are your peers? Who do

you compete with?

JAY-Z: There was one person: Big. If I

heard "Who Shot Ya" in a club, I would

leave and go make some music. That's not

to take anything away from Eminem or

Nas, I just don't look at them as that.

PLAYBOY: Something else that's new on

Blueprint 2—your mistrust of women has

softened.

JAY-Z: Right. People already know my

paranoia about women. Before I was a

rapper who didn't know who his friends

were, I was a hustler who didn't know who

his friends were. When it's a song about

women, it's usually the single, which makes

people say, This guy is dissing women

on every fucking record, [laughs] "Big

Pimpin'," "Can I Get a Fuck You," those

are the hits. But the slower ones are usually

more meaningful and serious.

PLAYBOY: Do you think women are less

trustworthy than men?

JAY-Z: No. But guys don't want to date me

for my money, so I don't have to worry

about them.

PLAYBOY: If you're going to have kids, you

have to get over that paranoia.

JAY-Z: Yeah, I'm learning. I'm growing. I'm

growing slow.

PLAYBOY: You tell a story in "This Can't

Be Life" that you were almost a father.

True story?

JAY-Z: Yeah. The girl I was seeing about four

years ago had a miscarriage. But I wasn't

sad. I didn't even grieve. Maybe it happened

because I wasn't ready to be a dad.

PLAYBOY: And now you're dating a woman

who doesn't need your money, either.

JAY-Z: Is that right?

PLAYBOY: How did you meet Beyonce

Knowles?

JAY-Z: I used to see her all the time.

[quickly] We're not engaged or anything,

by the way. We're just cool. We're just

friends. We don't really, ah, know each

other like that yet.

PLAYBOY: Do you wish she was your girlfriend?

JAY-Z: She's beautiful. Who wouldn't wish she

was their girlfriend? Maybe one day. [smiles]

PLAYBOY: We're not quite convinced. We

know you like to keep parts of your life

private. If she were your girlfriend, would

you tell us?

JAY-Z: Probably not.

PLAYBOY: Well, you're pretty cool—hard to

read at times.

JAY-Z: Thank you, brother, [raises a glass of

Cristal] Toast to that.

PLAYBOY: Does that create problems in

relationships?

JAY-Z: Yeah, it could. I'm not the most

I-love-you guy. That's one of my problems.

"What, you want me to tell you? Those are

just words—everyone is going to tell you.

Look at what I do." I have to change that.

PLAYBOY: How are you going to change that?

JAY-Z: I know it. That's half the battle.

PLAYBOY: But only half.

JAY-Z: But half! Shit. It was zero before—

be happy.

PLAYBOY: If we were going to play amateur

psychiatrist------

JAY-Z: That's what this feels like.

PLAYBOY: Here's what we would say: As a

kid, you loved your dad. But he left and

you felt rejected, and that hurt so much,

you don't want to love anyone else the

same way.

JAY-Z: Definitely. That could be 100 percent

true. There's no worse pain. That's why a

lot of things didn't affect me growing up.

PLAYBOY: For instance, you had a fight

with your own brother, when you were

12, and shot him. He lived, but it was an

intense experience.

JAY-Z: Yeah, [pause] You know what? Let's

not. I'll tell you that one day, you as a

person. Does he have to relive it every time

someone talks to me about it? Is that fair

to him?

PLAYBOY: Where did you get the gun?

JAY-Z: That story's even worse. I was 12. I

didn't know better. The person who gave

me the gun had to be 20 or 21—you're an

adult. Damn, why would you do that? How

could you even...I don't understand. But I

can't blame nobody but myself.

PLAYBOY: Someone gave you a gun so you

could shoot your brother?

JAY-Z: [Pauses] Yeah. Terrible. That's the

one thing to this day I regret.

PLAYBOY: Why did you shoot him?

JAY-Z: My brother was a really, really, really

tough person to get along with. He was

messed up on drugs really bad.

PLAYBOY: Then a few years later, when you

were selling drugs, someone shot at you

three times on the street.

JAY-Z: It was a litde bit farther than me to you.

PLAYBOY: Who shot at you?

JAY-Z: I ain't going into that. I know who

it was. He was a friend of mine. It was a

misunderstanding. We've talked about it

and laughed.

PLAYBOY: On "Dead Presidents II," you talk

about being shot at and say it was "divine

intervention" you weren't killed. Do you

think God protects drug dealers?

JAY-Z: I think God protects anyone with a good heart. People say, "That's a comfort blanket so you can do whatever the fuck you want." But my intention was good. I was in a place where there's no hope. It was like, Fuck, man, I ain't going to continue to live like this. I've got to do something. Then I got addicted to that life. It was fun. It helped my situation, helped everyone around me.

PLAYBOY: When you were dealing, did you use drugs?

JAY-Z: No. Never. I'd seen my brother. After my father, that was the next person I looked up to. He had all the girls, he played basketball. Then he was a whole different person.

PLAYBOY: We've heard you only recently started smoking pot.

JAY-Z: [Laughs] There would be 10 of us, out in the Hamptons, and we won't finish one joint. "Ooh, we high!" "That's too strong! Put that out!" I don't smoke pot no more. PLAYBOY: From listening to your songs, people might believe that you're always

drinking------

JAY-Z: Cristal at 10 in the morning, right.

Although I was drinking champagne and

eating caviar this afternoon.

PLAYBOY: Where?

JAY-Z: I went shopping today, at Jacob the

Jeweler. Had champagne and Beluga caviar.

PLAYBOY: Were you buying a present for

Beyonce?

JAY-Z: Ha-ha. No.

PLAYBOY: We heard you have a wristwatch

worth so much money, you won't wear it

outside your house.

JAY-Z: What kind of silly shit is that? Then

why would I get it? I got a one-of-one, an

Audemars Piguet. There's no other watch

like it in the world. It's like a piece of art.

PLAYBOY: How much did it cost?

JAY-Z: A little bit. I'm trying to get grown

up and not talk about figures anymore. I'm

learning that the big cats don't talk about

money, only us ignorant rappers. I have to

get sophisticated with my paper. I'm not

nouveau money.

PLAYBOY: Let's talk about sex. Which have

you done more often, turned down sex or

accepted it?

JAY-Z: I think every artist has turned it

down more. I hope. Shit, [laughs] If the

place is filled with 20,000 people, 10,000

of them are screaming women. I never got

carried away. I have always been a person

who's more interested in business first.

PLAYBOY: If there's a beautiful woman on

one side of the room, and a business deal

on the other------

JAY-Z: I'd take the business deal. Sorry. I know people will be like, "You fucking asshole! You dummy!" PLAYBOY: You rapped with Eminem and DMX and Biggie, all of whom are highly respected. You also rapped with Puff Daddy and Ja Rule, who aren't respected. Does it make a difference to you who you rap with?

JAY-Z: I rap with people for different reasons. Sometimes I like them, sometimes I respect them. I was on a Juvenile remix because I liked this record he had, called "Ha." He did something new. So I called him and said that I would love to do the remix.

PLAYBOY: So why rap with Puffy?

JAY-Z: I respect Puff on a creative level. As

a rapper, you ain't got to respect him. As a

producer, he gave 'Juicy" to Biggie. Biggie

didn't want to do it. [The song made Biggie

a star.] "That beat is soft. I ain't doing that."

As a rapper, I can't say I want to hear him.

He's not a rapper.

PLAYBOY: Do you want to follow Puffy

into movies?

JAY-Z: I do. I have a bunch of scripts,

from Wesley Snipes, Denzel. Chris Rock

said, "Boy, you better take these movies.

There ain't no telling if you're going to be

hot tomorrow."

PLAYBOY: How about female rappers? Years

ago, you had Queen Latifah, MC Lyte.

Now all the top female rappers—Foxy

Brown, Lil' Kim—have to be sexy and

trashy, wearing fur bikinis. Why is that?

JAY-Z: Maybe it's because rap is so angry.

"Breakin' off on a motherfucker like that!"

A girl don't have no street credibility. You don't believe a girl when she's saying, "I'm holding a gat to the motherfucker." PLAYBOY: Especially if she's wearing a fur bikini when she says it. JAY-Z: [Laughs] You're like, You can't run fast in those stilettos.

PLAYBOY: Last year you made a record with R. Kelly, The Best of Both Worlds. Just before it came out, he was arrested on 21 counts of child pornography, over a videotape that seems to show him having sex with an underage girl. The music video you were going to make was canceled, the tour was canceled, the record didn't sell. Was that your biggest disappointment in music? JAY-Z: I would say so. I had such high expectations for it. I made the album with somebody I think is the greatest writer of our time. And we didn't finish the story, with the videos and performing.

PLAYBOY: Do you think that Kelly's career

is over?

JAY-Z: I have no idea. It's going to be

really tough.

PLAYBOY: Do you think that he might be

guilty?

JAY-Z: I don't want to speculate, man. I

don't know what half of America is doing

behind closed doors.

PLAYBOY: You've said before that rap is like

wrestling. What do you mean?

JAY-Z: When I say that, I'm talking about

all the beefs going on. Everybody is from a

place where they had nothing. Now they're

getting a little bit of something—they're

not going to risk that over "I rhyme better

than you." All that muscling up, all that

sticking out your chest, it's all wrestling.

"Come here, boy!" Nobody is gonna do

nothing to nobody. It's all just a show.

PLAYBOY: Just hype?

JAY-Z: There you go. A lot of attention to

your record.

PLAYBOY: And yet rappers are always

saying, "I'm keepin' it real."

JAY-Z: Someone recently told me, "Real is just

a foundation for a great fantasy." That's deep.

PLAYBOY: You've had a big battle with Nas—

he made a song about you, you made a song

about him, back and forth. If it was just wrestling, does that mean you never got mad? JAY-Z: You get angry, but at the end of the day, I'm not going to do nothing. It just pushes you to make better records. I got mad and went into the studio. PLAYBOY: Which got you angrier: When he called you ugly or when he implied you're gay?

JAY-Z: Ugly? A guy's not supposed to judge another guy. So that didn't bother me. But there's an imaginary line in the sand, and most people cross it when they are off balance. You don't say things about another guy's genitalia. PLAYBOY: He said that you should suck his dick.

JAY-Z: Yeah. You can't say that to a man. PLAYBOY: You offered to settle the fight in a boxing ring. Was there ever a chance that would happen?

JAY-Z: No, too much to lose. Especially in rap. People get knocked out, they lose that image. When you're listening to a record, "I'm the illest!" I don't know, man, I just saw you get knocked out. [laughs] PLAYBOY: On "The Ruler's Back," you liken yourself to Martin Luther King Jr. and Rosa Parks.

JAY-Z: What did I say? PLAYBOY: We have to tell you? You've written so many songs, you can't remember your own lyrics?

JAY-Z: Word up. Friends have to tell me my rhymes all the time. PLAYBOY: "I'm representing...." JAY-Z: "I'm representing for the seat where Rosa Parks sat/Where Malcolm X was shot, where Martin Luther was popped." Yeah. I believe that every black person has a responsibility. When you do good, everyone is looking at you—every black person. So you're the same person as Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. I'm not just representing the hood and Roc-A-Fella Records. I'm representing for the whole culture. A lot of people look at me like they looked at Martin Luther King. PLAYBOY: Some people might say, "What's a rapper who used to deal drugs doing comparing himself to Dr. King?" JAY-Z: I'm not like a politician who says he never did nothing wrong. I'm not a saint—I did bad things. I fucked up. But I'm a very legit person. I try not to do bad things anymore. I try to be a decent citizen. PLAYBOY: But you're not always so level­headed and orderly. In December 1999 you were arrested for stabbing Lance "Un" Rivera in a nightclub and pleaded guilty to misdemeanor assault. What happened that night?

JAY-Z: A fight got out of hand. PLAYBOY: Why did you have a knife on you that night?

JAY-Z: I don't want to talk about the knives. Just leave that one alone. PLAYBOY: Let's put it this way: At any given time, do you have protection on you? JAY-Z: No. One time I heard Russell Simmons say, "I don't even want to see a gun. I don't want no friends with guns." I was like, He's crazy. But now I feel the same way. What's wrong with me? I'm a gangsta rapper, [makes a mean face] From the hood.

PLAYBOY: From your first album to the last, you use the word fag a lot. Are you homophobic? JAY-Z: Um, I think rap is homophobic. I don't know. I could be. My friends and I play a game called Pause—if you say something that sounds gay, like, "I was with the dude the other day," you have to say, "Pause." That could be viewed as homophobic. I stopped playing Pause this year—I'm too grown. So maybe I'm getting better. PLAYBOY: But not playing Pause doesn't mean you're no longer homophobic. JAY-Z: I mean, it's a start, man. Shit. Goddamn, [laughs]

PLAYBOY: Could there ever be a successful gay rapper?

JAY-Z: That would be extremely tough. Rap is all, "Pickin' off a motherfucker like that. [makes a mean face] I'm from the hood." PLAYBOY: Every time you say, "I'm from the hood," you screw up your face like a cartoon villain.

JAY-Z: Because it's funny. "I'm from the hood." It's a joke. You can't take that seriously. Rappers, we ain't from the hood. We got nice homes and nice cars. We from the mansion.