20 Questions: Joan Rivers

Joan Rivers enjoys one of the most active schedules in show business. In addition to seemingly nonstop appearances in Las Vegas, Lake Tahoe and Atlantic City, she is preparing two film projects. Robert Crane caught up with her at her palatial Los Angeles estate. He tells us: "Television doesn't show how really lovely she is. She's even funnier in person. And don't believe her when she says she has Jewish thighs."

1.

[Q] Playboy: You're the sexiest comedienne working today. Despite the fact that you're married, do you get hit on a lot?

[A] Rivers: Yes, I do. A lot more than my husband realizes. I was asked to pose nude, but then I really took a look at my Jewish thighs. No, I do get hit on and it's funny, because the ones who hit on me are very interesting. It's always out-of-town businessmen or real Hollywood dumb machos. The kind who haven't read a book since Dick and Jane and are really impressed when I tell them how it ended.

2.

[Q] Playboy: Who turns you on?

[A] Rivers: My husband. My manager. Cary Grant, a little younger, though. Roy Scheider, Kris Kristofferson. I have a great fantasy life. I can look at an old Laurence Olivier movie and just have the best time for the next week and a half. Who else turns me on? Dark-haired Italian men that I could tame. Oh, and, well, situations--if I were stuck for days after an earthquake with a really handsome Italian guy and we both were just there together with champagne and a fire going. What could I do? I thought the world was over.

3.

[Q] Playboy: Why is it still difficult for audiences to accept funny women?

[A] Rivers: I don't like funny women. I come out of that generation where the woman should be beautiful and sexy and a wonderful flower attached to a man, even though my whole life has been the antithesis of this. To this day, you don't expect a woman to be funny. That's why someone like Dolly Parton is so wonderful, because she's pretty and yet out of her mouth comes funny. That's like an extra bonus. Or a Loni Anderson. Or Lily Tomlin, who is really very pretty. Nobody likes funny women. We're a threat. I don't like funny women. I don't think I'm funny. I think I'm witty. Also, who I am onstage is not who I am in private life. Tremendous difference. Onstage, I complain for every woman in America. In private life, I'm just a shallow, calculating bitch looking for a rich Arab to take me away. I could clean him up. We could be very happy.

4.

[Q] Playboy: Being funny is still considered a male thing, especially telling dirty jokes.

[A] Rivers: I don't like to see a woman telling dirty jokes. People say I'm dirty and I always stare at them. My areas are just very "women's" kind of areas. I have a routine now, which my husband hates, that for Christmas he gave me a box of Rely tampons. That's not dirty. I think that's very funny. It's such a woman's joke and it shows what your husband thinks of you. To me, a dirty joke is two nuns and a rabbi were screwing four Chinamen---

5.

[Q] Playboy: Who makes you laugh?

[A] Rivers: Lenny Bruce, still. I'll still listen to his records. My daughter. Albert Brooks. Jackie Gayle, who is brilliant in a club. Shecky Greene. Johnny Carson. David Brenner makes me laugh. And Rodney Dangerfield, even though a lot of us are very angry at Rodney because he runs around screaming at everybody, "You stole my material." It's a joke now among comedians--"Rodney says I stole this one from him." We laugh because he's so paranoid. But, anyhow, I think Rodney's very funny.

As for women, Lucille Ball is the best of the comedy line. Bea Arthur as Maude, if you're going into character comedy. Carol Burnett is the best sketch performer--ever. Lily Tomlin: You just want to put your arms around her and laugh and protect her at the same time. However, there are a lot of ladies doing comedy these clays who should not be doing comedy. I love to see a serious actress who tries to get funny, or a serious actor. You want to go, "Oh, God, go back to drama. It's easier."

6.

[Q] Playboy: How do you handle hecklers?

[A] Rivers: Badly. I cry. Or I shoot them. Usually, I can handle them. Cher once did something that I'll love her for the rest of my life. She had an Arab who walked onstage during her act to get to his seat. Total arrogance. He walked past Cher, who was singing, and sat in front with his girlfriend with no regrets, no excuse-mes. She stopped the show and had him tossed out. I loved her for that. They threw him out and the girlfriend and the camel.

7.

[Q] Playboy: What were your first sexual experiences like?

[A] Rivers: Positive. My first encounter, as they say, was with a man I had been in love with since I was a child. So it was a very meaningful, if short, moment. I went out and bought a special dress for the occasion. It took longer to pick the dress than the whole sexual act. I guess our theme song was [sung to I Feel Pretty] "I feel nothing." But we were very much in love and that was very important. I waited through college. I'm glad I started that way. I've had very few sons of bitches. I've been very lucky. I was careful who I fell in love with. I came from a generation where you knew nothing; you learned by doing. My old joke was: "I thought you took turns moving." Whoever had the good position moved. You had to learn. Where nowadays they know everything.

8.

[Q] Playboy: Is your husband romantic?

[A] Rivers: No, I wish he were. He is very unromantic and it is upsetting. It's horrendous sometimes, because you just would love someone to say, "Don't you look fabulous" or that roses would come to the house. When we first got married, when we would have fights--I love gardenias--dozens of gardenias would come and I'd go crazy for that. Or I'm always looking to open a rose and find a diamond ring in it. Well, after you've pulled apart 2000 roses, you just go out and buy your own ring. The nicest thing my husband can say to me is, "You don't look bad." It's very English. When you float down the stairs, you want something. The thing that I don't like is when my friends' husbands lean over and tell me how great I look. I hate when a friend's husband puts the hit on you. (continued on page 198)Joan Rivers(continued from page 149)

9.

[Q] Playboy: Does that happen a lot?

[A] Rivers: Enough. Sometimes I feel everybody is looking. I don't like that. Let a stranger tell you, that's OK. The romance is out of my marriage, which is horrendous. But what can you do? My husband is a terrific man, so I just buy myself the diamonds.

10.

[Q] Playboy: When you and Edgar were married, did he realize that one day he would be a part of your act?

[A] Rivers: I don't think he realized it. He married me when I was already successful. But I was always autobiographical in my humor and it just evolved. He became a part of my act the same way my daughter became part of it, because I talk about my current experiences. My act now is more leaning over the back fence and saying, "Can you believe Nancy Kissinger? Isn't she a horse? When I met her, she was wearing a saddle from Gucci and the queen of England! If I've told her once, I've told her 1000 times, 'Shave your toes' " and like that. So there's less of the husband in the act.

11.

[Q] Playboy: What do you think of Elizabeth Taylor's comeback?

[A] Rivers: I hear she looks terrific. In real life, she's a dear friend of a dear friend of mine. She said to him, "I've dieted all my life. I want to get fat now. I'm happy. Let me go." That's her right.

But it's also my right to say what America's thinking. I think a comedian can never be an insider. I could never be a friend of "the greats." Every friend of mine who is a comedian and has become a friend of the greats is no longer funny. I won't go into names. You can't dine with the biggies and then walk on a stage and still be a common person. So, when Elizabeth Taylor got fat, that was great, because I could walk on a stage and say, "Wow, her thighs are going condo." Thank God she's fat. She lost weight for a while and I went into shock. I was so upset. I mean, I have a mortgage.

They say black makes you look thinner. So she should hang out with the Supremes. One of the reasons I enjoy making jokes about her is men still adore her. When I say she's fat, men get upset in the audience, and then you can scream at them--"OK, so she's not fat. I took her to Jack In The Box and she ate Jack." Then it's fun. But the men still find her very sexy and beautiful. God, her eyes. Especially that right one.

12.

[Q] Playboy: How do you feel about Hollywood people entering politics?

[A] Rivers: I think it's a great idea, because I'm planning to do it eventually. I think I'd be dynamite. I'm gonna tell Nancy Reagan to get out early so I can redecorate. Is she or is she not a Step-ford wife? She's so perfect.

13.

[Q] Playboy: The sense of fun has gone out of a lot of areas of life. Sports, for instance. Everything is salary. Has that gotten out of control?

[A] Rivers: I don't care, because I hate sports. When I was single, I had to participate. I mean, picture this Jew in tennis shoes. I used to go sailing. You understand, I was going out with a guy from Harvard. I used to get hit in the head with the boom. I had concussions every spring. Try to sail and hide your thighs at the same time. Try to sail in high heels. It isn't easy to run on the deck with Spring-O-Lators.

But somebody was saying to me how disgusting it is with the salaries in Las Vegas. If you can bring them in, and they want to give you that, you're a fool not to take it. I'm all for big salaries. I'm also for big payoffs under the table. I'm looking to become a tool of the Mob. I'm looking for some big mafioso to say, "Get your hands off her. She's Sinatra's woman." I'm waiting for that. That has never happened. Those are my fantasies--"Leave her alone. She's Bob Mitchum's gal." I met Robert Mitchum at a party. I just stood and laughed into his stomach--he's so big.

14.

[Q] Playboy: Having lived on both coasts, what are the differences between New York women and Los Angeles women?

[A] Rivers: New York women are, by far, brighter, snappier, better dressers and doing more with their lives and are unafraid. California women are much more beautiful, nobody is over 11 and they're all frightened to get old. I have friends who exercise under their desks. In California, there's always the successful guy with the great-looking blonde on his arm and she lives only to stay "the great-looking blonde." In New York, you may have a great-looking woman, but she's also an art historian working for the Metropolitan Museum. In California, the women are much more "men's women," much more athletic, and they all look like Rod Stewart with hair bows. They're all thinner out here, too. Very depressing. Except it's cheaper when you give a dinner party in California.

15.

[Q] Playboy: Why is that?

[A] Rivers: In California, you don't have to serve anything. Just six Quaaludes and everybody's happy. In New York, they're looking for fine French food.

16.

[Q] Playboy: How do the Eastern rich differ from the Western rich?

[A] Rivers: The Eastern rich know how to spend it. The Eastern rich are not frightened to have French furniture or own an old master. They're not frightened to go to Europe. I mean, that's what the fun of money is: to go and buy clothes over there at the showings. Eastern lifestyle is much more formal. The only time you see anybody in California in a tuxedo is when they're burying him. Here, the rich don't spend their money the way I like to spend it. Let me put it this way: If I see one more piece of country French furniture or Lucite, I shall throw up. I have a very formal living room because it's nice to have a formal living room as we sit in our warm, comfortable den. It's nice to have a formal side to your life, too. These people out here are a little frightened of that. I bring finger bowls out at parties, and people out here get very nervous when they see that. They think entertaining means a bathing suit and a bowl of chili.

17.

[Q] Playboy: How do you keep creatively sharp living in Los Angeles?

[A] Rivers: We read everything in sight. The only extravagance we have, besides putting a bid in for Buckingham Palace, is we go into a bookstore and buy anything we want. That really keeps you very up to date. You have to be up to date; otherwise, you're dead in my business.

I also read the National Enquirer, because when I go onstage, that's what they want to know about: that Princess Caroline is a tramp. And poor Grace Kelly, no wonder they say she boozes--her daughter is sleeping around Monaco--and Caroline Kennedy is a bore. Second-generation kids are pugh. A lot of it has to do with the parents' not being there when they should have been. I mean the mothers more than the fathers.

18.

[Q] Playboy: Besides being a comedienne, you've also directed a movie. What did you learn from your experience with Rabbit Test?

[A] Rivers: It got lousy reviews on the whole. Playboy loved it, Denver loved it, Chicago loved it. I can tell you who loved it: Gene Shalit should only die. His mustache should pull him down into the pool. I remember Gene Shalit when he was a flack, hanging out at the Upstairs at the Downstairs, saying, "Think I'm funny?" He was a big, fat boy. He knew I'd mortgaged my home to finance Rabbit Test and he said on television twice, "I hope she loses the house over this." I know he's a really funny guy and can be a lot funnier than me. but his special came in last place. That's the way it goes. I hope he reads his reviews.

Think I get a little defensive? It doesn't sound like much now, but we put up $492,000. When we paid off the note, the bank did a photo reduction of the signed document and pasted it on a bottle of wine and gave it to us, which was very sweet.

19.

[Q] Playboy: Now that we're out of the "me" decade, what is going to happen to the gay culture that was flourishing at the end of the Seventies?

[A] Rivers: First of all. I am so pro-gay. I owe my career to the gays. They found me first. But the Seventies got too liberal at the end. On the other hand, the born-again religious fanatics are very terrifying. It's scary, you know, when God only listens to certain people.

The women made their point in the Seventies. Let's all relax. Unfortunately, it's gone so far. I don't want to watch The Phil Donahue Show and see elderly gays telling me there's an alternative lifestyle for my child. This is not an alternative lifestyle. This is a lifestyle that will happen because of something the child has no control over. But it is not a choice. I think of myself as a fat Queen Victoria now, and yet I was the first straight person to put my name in the ad against Anita Bryant.

Don't you love how she swung around, that bitch, when she suddenly found a rich guy who doesn't feel the way she does? A lot of conviction there. But she lost the commercials. Weren't they smart, how they did that? Just very quietly, they eased her out.

Enjoy yourself. You go through life once, do anything you want--but quietly. I'm so bored with guilt. If you really see an animal you like, why not? But don't tell me about it and don't ask me to double-date with you and your chimp and don't say to my daughter, "Have you tried a great Dane?" Keep it to yourself and don't try to convert anybody.

20.

[Q] Playboy: What comes between you and your Calvins?

[A] Rivers: Longies and body wrapping. If my Calvins could talk, they would yawn.

"They say black makes you look thinner. So Elizabeth Taylor should hang out with the Supremes."