20 Questions: Marvin Hagler and Thomas Hearns

This year's fight of the century will take place on April 15 at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas, where 160-pound middleweight champion Marvelous Marvin Hagler (his legal name) will defend his title against super welterweight king Thomas "Hitman" Hearns. Hagler, a classic boxer, is 5'91/2" tall and has a record of 60 wins, two losses and two draws. Hearns, a classic slugger, is 6'1" tall, also 160 pounds, and has knocked out 34 opponents en route to 40 victories and just one defeat (to Sugar Ray Leonard four years ago). Interviewer Lawrence Linderman reports: "Marvin Hagler is boxing's answer to Rodney Dangerfield--he gets no respect, or at least that's what he thinks. Hearns, who's almost majestically serene, regards his right hand the way King Arthur regarded Excalibur--and, based on past results, that assessment may not be too far off the mark."

1.

[Q] Playboy: Most boxing experts rate you as the world's top two boxers and believe this will be the toughest bout either of you has ever fought. Are they right?

[A] Hearns: Definitely. If I beat this man, it will put me on the very top of the world.

[A] Hagler: I don't think that highly of Thomas. I respect him, but I know I hit harder than Sugar Ray Leonard, and people feel this fight is really secondary to a Leonard-Hagler fight. But I don't care; I want the money. I just hope Thomas doesn't hurt his other baby finger.

2.

[Q] Playboy: Marvin, you're referring to the fact that three years ago, when this fight was originally scheduled, Hearns broke his right pinkie during training and the bout was postponed and then canceled. Do you believe that Hearns just didn't want any part of you?

[A] Hagler: Yes, I still think he was ducking me; but he finally got his heart up now, because I put him on the spot. People really wanted to see this fight come off.

[A] Hearns: When Marvin started talking like this, I said he should shut his mouth--and he should. The fight was postponed because of my broken finger, but it was canceled because the promoter couldn't come up with the money he was supposed to pay us. And I'm glad that happened, because we were each going to get $2,500,000 three years ago, and now we're each going to make more than $5,000,000.

3.

[Q] Playboy: You're both multimillionaires. Has making big money--and spending and managing it--been as much fun as you imagined?

[A] Hagler: Not really. When you're a champion, people come at you with all kinds of propositions. It gets a little heavy sometimes; but I've worked very hard for my money, so I try to protect it. Money is like a woman: If you don't take care of it, it'll leave you.

[A] Hearns: Having the money to do whatever you want to do is a great feeling, but taking care of your money is almost as hard as fighting. I'm conservative with my money, and I've never had any run-ins with the IRS--and I don't plan to.

4.

[Q] Playboy: In 1983, Marvin, you won a lackluster 15-round decision over Roberto Duran, and last June, Thomas, you knocked Duran out cold in the second round. Would it be wrong to draw any conclusions from those results?

[A] Hearns: Yes, because I fought Duran differently than Marvin did, and Duran fought me differently than he did Marvin. You can't say that because he won a decision and didn't knock his man out, something's wrong there.

[A] Hagler: Against me, Duran stayed back and tried to counterpunch, and there's no way in the world I'd want to run in on a right hand or a left hook--any fool can do that. Fighters like Rocky Graziano and Jake La Motta used to lead with their faces against counterpunchers, but that isn't how a modern fighter thinks. Boxing people know I took the last bit of starch out of Duran. I did Thomas a big favor. If it weren't put into his head that he's a world-beater, I think he would've just kept ducking me.

5.

[Q] Playboy: Reveal your strengths and your weaknesses.

[A] Hagler: My biggest strength is my experience. I've been in with every kind of fighter and I've knocked out guys taller and heavier than Thomas. I'm a technician, a scientific boxer. I'm much too cagey for him. My weaknesses? I don't have any.

[A] Hearns: Of course Marvin's going to say he has no weaknesses. He has weaknesses--it's just a matter of finding them. I have weaknesses, but I'm not going to talk about them. As for my strengths, I learn from my mistakes. In 1981, I made a bad decision when I fought Leonard. The world knew me as a puncher but not as a boxer. I wanted to show everyone that he wasn't the best boxer in the world--I was. And so I fought his fight and lost; and I hated myself for doing that. The Duran fight was the most important one of my career--that's when I decided to leave the boxer behind and let the Hitman take control.

6.

[Q] Playboy: How do you rate yourselves as punchers?

[A] Hearns: Marvin's got a very strong left hand and a good right jab. On a scale of one to ten, I rate Marvin an eight or a nine. I rate myself the same.

[A] Hagler: I rate myself as a good puncher. I don't say I'm a one-punch knockout artist, because very early in my career my trainer stopped me from trying to be like that. I take my time; I hurt you, I give you an ass whipping and I make sure you're not the same man when we finish. Thomas was a very good puncher when he was a welterweight, but I think you lose punching power when you move up in weight classes. But that's something I'll have to find out for myself.

7.

[Q] Playboy: Have you each figured out how to win this fight?

[A] Hagler: I'd rather not go into specifics, but once I get in there and start feeling him out, Thomas won't be a problem. He has knocked out only one middleweight, and he's fought only one southpaw. I'm a wiser, more mature boxer than he is.

[A] Hearns: My plan is to keep him on the end of my left jab. I want to keep Marvin lunging and reaching and struggling to get at me inside. Then, as soon as he starts to step in, I'm going to drop that right on him. If I get one good shot at him with the right, it won't be long before the fight's over.

8.

[Q] Playboy: What's the hardest you've ever hit an opponent?

[A] Hearns: People remember my knockouts of Pipino Cuevas and Duran, but I didn't hit either one of them with everything. I still haven't landed that perfect right hand, but maybe I'll do it against Marvin--I think he's ripe for it. I have a date with destiny, and I am destined to get him.

[A] Hagler: Well, I've hit a lot of people so hard they looked retarded. I guess one of the hardest punches I ever landed was against Loucif Hamani in 1980. I knocked him out in the (continued on page 187)Hagler and Hearns(continued from page 149) second round and he was unconscious for about ten minutes.

9.

[Q] Playboy: Do you ever worry about killing an opponent?

[A] Hagler: Yes, I do. Every time I go into battle, I pray to God that I don't hurt my opponent very seriously. But I have a job to do, and the only way to do it is to take it to him. When I fought Hamani, I was very relieved when he regained consciousness. I don't know what kind of effect it would have had on me if he hadn't recovered. Hamani was a clever boxer, a sharp puncher and a very dangerous opponent. Against that type of fighter, you don't play around--you get him the hell out of the ring as soon as you can.

[A] Hearns: My job is to do whatever I have to do to win, but I also know when to stop and when my opponent has had enough. I don't go into the ring angry and wanting to kill somebody, but boxing does involve life, death and danger--that's part of the job. Each time you knock out an opponent, his life is in danger. It's something I constantly think about.

10.

[Q] Playboy: Do you worry about your own safety as well?

[A] Hearns: Yes, always. And I know what that depends on--getting to my opponent before he can get to me. Really, if I don't do it to him, he'll do it to me. Well, better him than me.

[A] Hagler: The older you get, the more you worry. But any time you step into a ring, your life is at risk. That's why, before every fight, you're always asked to name a beneficiary for your end of the purse.

11.

[Q] Playboy: What's the hardest you've ever been hit--and how did it feel?

[A] Hagler: Last year, Juan Roldan caught me with a good shot. He came at me like a steam roller, and he had to be the hardest puncher I'd faced in a while. When he hit me, one thought went through my mind: Time for you to die now, son of a bitch. It took me two rounds to figure him out.

[A] Hearns: I've been either lucky or blessed: In 41 pro bouts and 163 fights as an amateur, I can't remember being hit too hard in the ring. The hardest I've ever been hit was by my father when I was 13, and it made me cry. I was up to some boyish mischief, and my father really slammed me. My father has always been like E. F. Hutton: When he says something, I listen.

12.

[Q] Playboy: We couldn't help noticing that during the photo session for this interview, you both appeared tense and almost angry. Were you?

[A] Hearns: I was looking at Marvin and thinking, I can't wait to get upside your head. I was looking at that head and thinking, I can't wait. And I know he knows how I felt, because he couldn't look me in the eye--he kept looking downward.

[A] Hagler: The hardest thing to do in that situation was not to smack Thomas. Thomas had the same thing in him, too, because basically, when fighters are that close, they're usually going to tangle. So I had to make sure that he didn't tee off, and I had to make sure that I didn't tee off. As far as I'm concerned, the only time I want to be near another fighter is when I'm in the ring with him.

13.

[Q] Playboy: Care to share your true feelings about each other?

[A] Hearns: We don't have much to say to each other and never have, because boxing's a very competitive sport. You can be friends with other fighters, though. I have a total like for Larry Holmes. And whenever I see him, Leonard and I talk to each other. I have a positive attitude and there's no reason for me to have any animosity toward an opponent. I don't have anything against Marvin at all.

[A] Hagler: That's bull. That's Thomas already at work, trying to settle me down. That's not gonna work, because I'm gonna be the meanest I've ever been. There are no nice guys inside those four corners. Thomas is a total enemy.

14.

[Q] Playboy: Both of you abstain from sex for more than a month before your bouts. Why?

[A] Hagler: Sex just isn't good for you before a fight; it messes with you mentally--you forget about all the hard work you've done getting ready. When I step into the ring, I want to remember everything I've had to go through to get there. I become like a monster whose motto is "Destruct and destroy."

[A] Hearns: I sacrifice being with my woman for a month and a half. That doesn't make me happy, and it certainly doesn't put her in the greatest mood, either. Well, somebody's got to pay for that, and money is not the payment I want. Marvin's going to have to pay for that.

15.

[Q] Playboy: According to your biographies, Thomas, you're 26 and, Marvin, you'll be 31 a month after the bout takes place. Will age be a factor in this fight?

[A] Hearns: Marvin is 32 now and even though he denies it, he'll be 33 in May. He is now what we call over the hill--and I have never let an old man get into the ring and do anything to me. My youth is a very big factor in this fight.

[A] Hagler: First of all, I am 30 years old, but I actually like the idea that Thomas thinks I'm an old man, because he's been waiting for me to get gray hair and to slow down. Right now, I'm exactly at my peak.

16.

[Q] Playboy: The American Medical Association has started a campaign to abolish boxing. The sport probably will survive the A.M.A.'s initiative, but many people think it should be made safer, especially in view of Muhammad Ali's condition. What are your thoughts?

[A] Hearns: Enough's been done already to make the sport safer. If they do any more, they'll hurt it more than they'll help it. A man like Ali has to know when he's had enough. He was definitely the best, but you gotta know when to walk away.

[A] Hagler: Two decades of boxing is too long for anyone, and Ali took a lot of punishment toward the end of his career. What I'd like to see is for boxing to become safer by having better referees, better doctors, better judges, and making sure that managers and trainers are licensed.

17.

[Q] Playboy: What are you like on the day of a fight?

[A] Hagler: I'm very nasty and bitchy. I don't like to be bothered by anything or anyone. But all of that changes when I step into the ring, because then I have someone to take it out on.

[A] Hearns: Come the day of a fight, I'm real tense, so geared up, so ready. I stay to myself and visualize what's going to happen in the ring. I can tell whether it's going to be a long fight or a short fight. This one's going to be a short fight.

18.

[Q] Playboy: Are you making a prediction?

[A] Hearns: I'm going to knock Marvin out in three rounds.

[A] Hagler: I like to hear Tommy talking that way, because it means he's going to come out fighting--I won't have to chase him. He's going to give me the chance to do the same thing to him that he did to Duran, except this time it'll be his butt lying on the canvas.

19.

[Q] Playboy: One of you is going to lose this fight. Would that cause either of you to think about retiring from the ring?

[A] Hagler: Win or lose, if I wanted to retire, I would. Every once in a while, I have thoughts about it, but I haven't been abused in the ring. I have at least two years left.

[A] Hearns: I haven't thought about losing, because I don't doubt that I can win. But I do know when I'm going to retire: I give myself 18 more months, and then I'll be gone. You're the first people I've told this to, but I've been studying acting at the Henry Ford Community College; and after I leave boxing, I'm moving to Los Angeles to try to break into movies. Acting's a lot of fun, and it will give me the sort of challenges I've gotten from boxing.

20.

[Q] Playboy: How do you want boxing fans to remember you?

[A] Hearns: As the greatest--greater than Muhammad Ali and greater than all the old-time champions. If I beat Marvin for the middleweight championship and then beat Michael Spinks for the light-heavyweight championship and then retire having won four titles--which no boxer's ever done--I will be considered the greatest for a long time.

[A] Hagler: I'm not looking for the greatest or anything like that. I just want to be remembered as a good champion, one of the best. I work at being the best and I want people to respect me for that.

"Before every fight, you're always asked to name a beneficiary for your end of the purse."