The Jessica Hahn Story

Part Two

In Part One, Jessica described her upbringing, her life in the church and her encounter with two preachers in a Florida hotel room. This installment begins with her reaction to reports of the cover-up.

Golson: The press is still reporting on the blackmail you supposedly got from the PTL.

Hahn: Yes. But what's so unbelievable is that this was a seven-year thing. But the media made it sound like "Jessica Hahn jumped into bed with two men and then, a week later, she tried to blackmail them." I went through hell....

"Blackmail for Sex"--that was the first headline. The truth is that it happened in 1980; I was 21 years old; and then, after it happened, I spent four years by myself, keeping quiet, getting phone calls that went "Shush, shush, shush," working at the church, minding my business. I was counseling for four years after this happened. I was not living in a luxury apartment, driving around in limos. I was living with my mother, making $98 a week. With the money I got from the trust that PTL set up, I paid some credit-card bills and maybe bought a kitchen set.

Scheer: We'll get to the money; but let's pick up the story in 1980, after Bakker and Fletcher left you in your hotel room.

Hahn: All right. That night, I just stayed awake, shivering, in my hotel room and waited for dawn to come. John Fletcher called and said, "Look, thanks a lot, but we've got (continued on page 196)Jessica Hahn(continued from page 122) to go. Jim and I are going. The jet is waiting. And the limo." He made a point of mentioning the jet and the limo.

I called downstairs and asked for Somebody to help me with my bags. They got me a cab--which I paid for with my own money--to take me to the airport. Fletcher had given me exactly $129 to buy a ticket home. I got the last seat on the plane, near the bathroom, and spent the whole trip thinking, Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I am the one who did wrong. Maybe this is God's will. Maybe I did something to somebody.

I was crying on the plane, because confusion started to set in. I thought, I am alone; how am I going to deal with this? I no longer had these people to depend on, to trust.

Golson: What happened after you got home?

Hahn: I got home Sunday morning, unpacked, put a robe on, saw my parents. I tried to smile, acted like everything was fine: "I saw John and his family. It was fun doing the telethon."

I covered up. No way was I going to tell my mother--or show her--what I went through. So I climbed into bed and stayed there. I was in physical pain.

Sunday came and went. I was holding in my anger, my confusion. I was wondering again if I had gotten pregnant by Bakker. While he was with me, Fletcher had said that he had had a vasectomy.

Golson: In the tape you later made with your legal advisor, Paul Roper, you said it was Bakker who had had the vasectomy.

Hahn: No, the transcript was wrong. I was worried about having Jim's baby. John told me he'd had a vasectomy.

The next day, I went back to work at the church. But I wasn't right--I was just all messed up. So Tuesday night came. It was about eight o'clock. I was in my room. The phone rang and it was Jim Bakker. He said right away, "I don't want you to tell anybody. I don't think that it would benefit anybody. You would hurt a tremendous number of people."

I said, "Jim, why did you do this?"

He said, "You will appreciate it. You will realize that I chose you. You were the one woman, out of all the people, that I chose."

Golson: How did you respond?

Hahn: I said, "Who would I tell?"

He said, "That's good, because you really are blessed; you really are special. I will pray for you."

Then he continued, "Jessica, I just want you to know that if this becomes public knowledge, it will be devastating not only to me but to my ministry, to the kingdom of God. Millions of people will suffer. I've got a lot more to lose than you do."

Scheer: He used those words--"I've got a lot more to lose"? Did he mention any money?

Hahn: Nope. Nothing.

Scheer: Did he say he'd take care of you?

Hahn: Nope.

Golson: Did he ask you how you felt?

Hahn: No.

Scheer: What else did you say?

Hahn: I said, "Why did you choose me?"

He said, "Because I was able to trust you. And I still trust you. And I trust that you will not tell anybody."

I said, "How do you know you can trust me?" and he said again that he knew all about me--where I had been, how I was in the church my whole life and I understood the importance of keeping silent. Because this was something that would just destroy the entire kingdom of God.

Now, you have to understand my training. Since I was 14 years old, that was what I was most scared of doing--hurting the church, hurting others.

Scheer: Did you tell him that you were hurting?

Hahn: Yes. He said, "You'll get over it. You'll appreciate it later. You did something for Jesus. You did something for God." He also explained again how belittled he felt by his wife and how important a thing I had done for him. He seemed caught up in feeling like a man.

There was one last thing he said, where the conversation turned. He said, "Now, I want you to forgive me, but if certain things come up, some things may need to be done; I'm not sure." He was subtly warning me that if there were any leaks, he would have to go through channels to shut me up.

And that's exactly what happened. But the leaks didn't come from me. They came from him--a few weeks later.

Scheer: Did anyone else call you that first week?

Hahn: Yes. John Fletcher called me sometime that first week, saying, "Jessica, Jim Bakker wants to see you again. He's willing to pay your way anywhere to do anything, because he enjoyed you so much." He said Bakker had his own jet and we could go anywhere we wanted without being seen. I hung up on him.

Scheer: When did you hear that Bakker was leaking news about the incident?

Hahn: Within a couple of weeks, his assistant--David Taggart, the guy who was paid $600-some-thousand a year--called me and said, "Jim Bakker confided in me." He also said Bakker had confessed to a sexual encounter with a woman from New York to his church board.

"But he is just broken," Taggart said, "and he does not want you to talk." I listened as he told me about Jim's tremendous problems, constantly reminding me of the damage it would do if I talked. That got me angry.

Golson: If Bakker was beginning to talk to the people around him, why the continuing efforts to stifle you?

Hahn: Because of Fletcher, who eventually broke with Bakker. As the months went on and the PTL continued to call, Fletcher's name came into their conversations more and more. Taggart would call to say that Fletcher was going to be brought before the board because of these problems.

Golson: What other problems?

Hahn: Alcoholism and other stuff. They wanted to let John go--they didn't want him to be connected to the Assemblies of God, didn't want him preaching on TV. So John was apparently fighting back by dropping hints about Bakker. You see, John had a plan. His plan was to hold something over everyone.

Scheer: Including Bakker?

Hahn:Especially Bakker. Because John knew that Jim Bakker had been with me; Bakker may not have known if John had been with me.

Golson: Even though the scene on the TV telethon was of two guys sharing a secret?

Hahn: That was John taking the credit for giving Bakker a good time--"We had a good rest today, Jim." Bakker may not have known John came back.

So now Fletcher is obviously saying, "Hey, you're not going to kick me out. I know something you don't know."

That was just the beginning. John's campaign was just starting. He would call me and call the PTL. Eventually, he would even call the press about Bakker and me--keeping his part secret.

Golson: As the calls continued, why didn't you go to your pastor, Gene Profeta? He was Fletcher's friend and had given him a church to preach in.

Hahn: I eventually talked to him, but he was there to tell me that not everybody is like that--not all preachers are animals. "I can prove that," he said, "by helping you and being there--emotionally and spiritually."

Scheer: Surely, he wasn't that calm and collected about it.

Hahn: After he heard about it, he wanted to kill both of them. His immediate response was to cry. And he is not a crier.

Scheer: How much did you tell him?

Hahn: I told him enough. I didn't go into every tiny detail. Obviously, he asked what went on, what happened. He said, "Why didn't you tell me sooner?"

Scheer: What did you say to that?

Hahn: I said, "Because you know John." I didn't want to cause chaos between them.

After I had told him, he never again had John back to preach.

Golson: As we've said before, Profeta, a tough, flamboyant man, is not everyone's idea of a pastor.

Hahn: Maybe, but after everything happened, I went to him and he became very protective and we became very close; he watched over me. I had been there in his church since the time I was 14--always doing whatever had to be done.

So now it's early 1981, and I continued to work at church. About the pregnancy, obviously enough time passed. But I was still trying to sort out whether or not this was God's will.

Golson: Were your parents worried?

Hahn: Yes. I began to lose a great deal of weight. My parents thought that I had anorexia. They would make up trays of food for me and I would just throw them away. I stayed in the house when I was not working. I didn't care. I would come home and go to bed and not sleep. I was under the covers all the time. When I went to church, I was not the same. I was not able to worship the way I once did. I didn't hear the preaching. I cut myself off from everything and everybody. People would call the office and want prayer and I would pray with them over the phone, but I actually got to a point where I thought, Lord, who is going to pray for me? I thought, I need help. I need somebody to tell me whether or not this is the way things happen in life.

Actually, I needed somebody to say, "Jessica, they were wrong."

Golson: Did the calls from PTL continue?

Hahn: The calls were always the same. "Please be quiet; don't talk." Jim Bakker did not call me anymore. He used Taggart to call. So I finally thought a psychiatrist might help. I couldn't really afford him, but I looked up one who was listed as a "Christian psychiatrist"--you pay according to what you make. It was $50 an hour, which was a lot for me, but I went.

Golson: Did you tell him about Bakker?

Hahn: No. I was working up to tell him when I asked him, "Do you know who Jim Bakker is?" He said, "Yeah. I've been on his TV show." I just thought, God.

Scheer: It sounds like a Hitchcock movie.

Hahn: Well, that's how it was. My circle of people were Christians, and anybody who was a Christian--a born-again Christian--knew Jim Bakker.

Golson: At some point, it began to look as if the news would break. Later, some reports said the break came from you.

Hahn: It is on the record that in 1983, John Fletcher called a reporter in Charlotte, North Carolina, and said, "Remember the name Jessica Hahn, with Jim Bakker." He then did that over and over. He would call PTL and do the same. This was his way of fighting the charges against him by the Assemblies of God.

Golson: Were those charges made public?

Hahn: They were public among the Assemblies of God people. The leaders discussed the charges among themselves. I think what happened is, John began to wonder why Jim Bakker's star should continue rising while his was falling. Remember, he was intensely jealous and competitive. And little by little, he began to leak the story. In 1984, I had heard that a reporter named Charley Shepard of The Charlotte Observer had my name. I called him because I was scared. He said he had heard a story that Bakker was involved with this young girl, Jessica Hahn, from New York. He made it sound like this big affair and like we were running all over the place together. So, in defense, I said to Charley, "That's not what happened." And for the first time, I told an outsider some of what happened--the Bakker part of the story--so that Charley could draw his own conclusions. I didn't add anything Shepard didn't have, such as the Fletcher part. I only wanted to defend myself against the Bakker charges. I even tried to chicken out from that a short time later.

But that began everything.

Golson: So Shepard had your name as early as 1984 but didn't reveal it until two years later. Has he ever said why he didn't break the story earlier?

Hahn: He didn't have proof. He wanted to meet with me and set up a thing where I would help break the story. But I didn't want to get involved in breaking a story--I never did. I didn't want to work with this reporter. If he wanted to ask me something, fine. I wouldn't volunteer anything.

Now we're into early '84. Richard Dortch came on the scene. He took over Taggart's job of calling and saying, "Please keep quiet." Now, Richard Dortch--I don't know who is worse, him or Jim Bakker. Dortch would call me at night--two, three times a week. He asked to meet with me. He said things were beginning to come out. So first off, Dortch offered to move me into PTL territory, I guess so they could watch me.

Golson: What is PTL territory?

Hahn: The hotel in Heritage USA. I said no.

Scheer: What happened then?

Hahn: Dortch finally requested that I meet with him in March of '84 and told me that a woman would also be there to ease things--so that it wouldn't just be me and Dortch in the hotel. We were going to meet at the Holiday Inn at La Guardia Airport.

Scheer: Why did you agree to the meeting?

Hahn: Dortch made it seem desperate. He said, "Jessica, something's going on; you should know about it. I need to talk to you." And he said that this woman, Aimee Cortese, a board member of the PTL, would be there, too.

I went to the airport to meet Aimee at the La Guardia gift shop. I remembered her from my church, years before. She looked like a large prison warden, standing there with her arms crossed, holding a pocketbook. The first thing out of her mouth was, "Why do you dress like that?" I had on a black-and-white dress. I looked nice. Decent, not overdone. I didn't have any money to be overdone. She had on a ratty coat and looked like Miss Humble.

So we went off to meet Richard in a hotel room. Richard hadn't come in yet. Aimee sat down with me and got all confidential. She said, "All right, Jessica, Jim Bakker has marital problems, and because of it, he does have a problem with women."

Dortch came in the room. He's got this sugary way and started off by talking about how the news was going to come out. "Now, Jessica," he said, "we could get a lawyer, but God's people don't need lawyers. We depend on God." I finally got mad. I said, "Richard, don't be ridiculous. Don't start using God. We all love God, but let's talk."

What was on their mind was not to go to a lawyer but to get me to sign a document. Fletcher's story would not be believable if I denied in writing that anything had happened; it would be me and Bakker's word against John's.

"But, Richard," I said, "Aimee tells me that Jim Bakker has been with other women." Aimee immediately said, "That's not what I said"--this is ten minutes later! "I only said Jim Bakker is having marital problems."

I said, "No, Aimee. I'm not stupid. You told me that he was having problems with other women."

So we went through that. Then Richard said, "Jessica, how would you feel if Jim Bakker took a gun and put it to his head and shot himself?" I said, "Richard, why would Jim Bakker do that?" He said, "Because his brother did."

To this day, I can't find out if he had a brother who committed suicide. Maybe they'll turn it around and say it was a brother in Christ, if it needs to be documented. Still, he told me Jim Bakker was suicidal and that it was up to me whether Jim Bakker lived or died. This is exactly how Dortch put it. Then Aimee began telling me that she loved me like her own daughter----

Golson: Out of the blue?

Hahn: Out of the blue. She wanted to be there to help me, to bring me through this. Because there was something I could do to save the ministry--"Look, you know what's going on with PTL; we're building hotels, we're building everything. You can save lives, keep all that moving"--if I agreed to sign a paper saying that Bakker never did anything to me.

They explained that the document would state that I came to them for financial help and that they helped me. They started mentioning some sums of money--up to $30,000--which I could have taken then, without any lawyers' percentages or anything. I didn't. But the document was going to say that I had, in effect, raped him.

They said they had papers like this signed before when the ministry had been threatened--kind of like some form letter for people like me.

So I said, "Look. I have about had it with all this."

But Aimee said, "Jessica, you won't have any peace if this story breaks. Just think what it would do to your brother to see that you were involved in this. Think what it would do to your parents. We can prevent this story from coming out."

What she said about my brother Danny started playing on my mind, so I said it was true, I didn't want it to come out. So--for Danny's sake and my family's--I was almost willing to do something. Aimee began to tell me how much PTL meant to her and how she ministered to thousands. They went on and on--hours and hours of this.

Afterward, they left. No agreement was made then.

Golson: But didn't you say you'd begun to weaken a bit?

Hahn: Yes, because of Danny and my family. That's why I agreed to another meeting, to think about it. So another meeting was set up, and we were back and forth on the telephone that summer.

Golson: Did they show you a draft of what they wanted you to sign?

Hahn: Yeah. And they wouldn't let up on me about signing it. It was a complete lie.

Golson: Did you consider getting some legitimate advice? You led a sheltered life, but surely you knew enough not to sign a contract without having a lawyer look at it.

Hahn: But if somebody had looked at it, I would feel like I was telling him what happened. And the whole idea was not to talk. Besides, I didn't have any money.

Golson: What were you making?

Hahn: Maybe $10,000 a year.

So throughout 1984, Dortch called to ask me to sign the paper. "I really think you should pray and think...." November rolled around. Dortch was telling me how crazy Fletcher really was and what he was capable of doing. In a way, he was telling me that my life was in danger, because John Fletcher would do anything, anything. If the story came out, I would have to pick a side. Dortch argued that signing the paper was protection for me. Then we could go to the authorities and say, "This man is losing his mind. Here, this paper was signed--that's the proof."

Either way, I couldn't win. If I signed the thing, John would find out and he would come after me. If I went in the other direction and said that I'd talk, the PTL would ruin me.

They would manipulate you and get you to believe anything, these people. They are trained to program you to "do it this way because it is in your best interest." That's their skill.

Golson: And all to prevent Bakker's reputation from being tarnished?

Hahn: Right. Jim Bakker was the king. In fact, during our telephone conversations, Dortch never called him Jim Bakker. He called him J.B. I would say, "Richard, say 'Jim Bakker.' " And he'd reply, "I'm saying 'J.B.' " Everyone was always taping everything. I was told, "When you call, say you're Jennifer Leigh. Don't use the name Jessica." Everything was a big deal.

Golson: What finally happened with the document?

Hahn: I went to the Bronx to meet with Aimee Cortese again. It was in a tough neighborhood, and she had two enormous guys standing at the door.

So I went upstairs to her office. It was the size of a bathroom stall. Tiny. Just room enough for a desk and a person and another person. I sat down; she handed me an envelope with the papers and said to me, "Jessica, sign these."

I began arguing about what the document claimed I did. By now I was mad, talking back to her. I said, "What are you getting out of it?" She said, "I'm getting nothing but the peace of God." I said, "Aimee, you are full of crap! You tell me you love me like your daughter; would you have your daughter sign this?"

She just gave me the paper. I said, "Aimee, I am not going to sign this." And she said, "If you don't sign it, the story is going to come out. Then people are going to look at you as this woman who slept with two men."

And so ... I was stupid enough to let her talk me into it. She did talk me into it. And it did say rape--of Jim Bakker by me--and it did have extortion in it.

Golson: Why would you ever sign such a document, especially since you were finally angry at these people?

Hahn: That's just it. I'd been so mad, and she'd persevered so hard, I figured she had to know something. It really was going to break. It all was going to fall on me. Why else would she persevere?

I found out why later: I read that she got $60,000 as a "gift" from PTL. And she had $10,000 for me in an envelope. As I was about to walk away, she tossed me an envelope that had the money in it and said, in a tone like "Get lost," "Get some counseling."

Golson: Why not ask for another version of the document? Something less damaging to you?

Hahn: I don't know. There wasn't time; she was pushing. I screwed up. I signed the paper. I should have thought, This is crazy, let's rewrite it. But the woman said, "I've got to go--I'm late for a church meeting--and you've got to sign it."

These people are vicious. Dortch told me he had done this before and that this document would never, ever, ever be seen by anyone. It was just for their personal assurance. It was to prove to them that I could not be the one who would leak the story--because then I would damage myself. If I talked, they would show this. It would let them trust me.

Scheer: How? This sounds complicated.

Hahn: It is. They were telling me, "We can't protect you from Fletcher and others who know about this story unless we have your trust, unless we believe that you are completely sincere in not wanting this story to come out. And the only way we can believe that is if you sign this. When you sign this, it is going to say you did a lot of things you didn't do. Then we will know you would not bring this story out." Are you with me so far?

Scheer: You're locked together in a trust.

Hahn: Right. We're on the same side now. Jim is not going to talk, because he has an empire. I am not going to talk, because I just signed a document that says I seduced Jim. So if John starts to talk, I deny it because of the document, Jim denies it and John's credibility is down the drain.

That was their way. Their Christian way, the kind of games they would play with you. They got me to a place where I would have to sacrifice myself again in order for them to protect me.

Golson: When did you know how much money you'd been given?

Hahn: When I got in the car and looked. I thought there might be $300--money for a few counseling sessions. But there was $10,000. So I went home and that night it hit me: "What did I do? My God, I've just committed suicide, practically."

Golson: What did you do?

Hahn: The next day, I called Aimee and said, "Aimee, I changed my mind. I want to give you this money back. And I want that document." She said, "Look, lady, you signed it. Too late. It's being sent to the PTL for safekeeping." I said, "What do you mean? It's not even nine o'clock. You couldn't possibly have mailed it. It's in your office. I want it." She said, "You're not getting it."

Now I couldn't get that document back. I had to have help. I couldn't go on like this. The money meant nothing to me. In fact, I hid the money--I barely touched it. I felt like it was dirty, anyway.

Golson: But you kept it.

Hahn: Yes. I put it in a safe-deposit box and I used to take a few hundred out and get money orders and pay bills--which is probably wrong, but I couldn't exactly put it in the bank. I was afraid. The whole scene was scary.

Golson: You spent the money?

Hahn: I hid the money and began using it. I'd gotten it for signing a document I couldn't get back, but I knew it didn't seem right. I am admitting that. That's what drove me to finally get help.

Scheer: The papers reported that the $60,000 Aimee Cortese received may have been PTL money laundered through the Wedtech corporation, which has been linked to widespread Bronx corruption. What do you know about Wedtech?

Hahn: Nothing. I picked up a paper one day later on and read, "Jessica Hahn possible link to wedtech." I didn't even know what Wedtech was. I had to call up the Daily News reporter and ask him. I still don't know.

Scheer: Aimee Cortese's brother, Congressman Robert Garcia of the Bronx, was allegedly involved in the Wedtech investigation. You know nothing about it?

Hahn: No. Was it Wedtech money? PTL money? Are Wedtech and PTL somehow linked? I can't say. All I read was that Aimee Cortese was paid $60,000. And that she was supposed to use it for her church.

Golson: You said the money and the fact that she wouldn't give back the document caused you to get help.

Hahn: Yes, that was Paul Roper. The brother of my pastor, Gene, knew that Roper had previously gone after a church organization that allegedly was misusing funds.

Golson: Where did you meet him?

Hahn: He had come to our church in Massapequa and taught. He was also somebody who studied the Bible a lot. So I called to say, "Paul, you have handled this sort of thing before. Something's terribly wrong here. What should I do?" He came to Long Island and said, "Jessica, I'm going to need to know the details."

So we sat in an office with a recorder and I told him over a two-hour period what had happened to me, in chronological order. My pastor was there. There was one tape. I said, "Do not let this tape get out." I'm not stupid--I know there could've been copies made. But it was an honor thing. We didn't put anything in writing. I just trusted him. I didn't realize until later that he wasn't an attorney, but a law student.

Golson: How often did Roper stay in touch with you after that?

Hahn: Maybe once a month by phone, then less. I saw him once at the signing of the papers, then not again for two years.

Golson: Why did you make the tape?

Hahn: To let these people know I had real help, that I wasn't just some naïve girl, that what they'd done was serious. I wanted them to know someone else knew the details and could file a lawsuit.

Golson: And what, exactly, was your objective?

Hahn: To say, "We are serious. If you're going to threaten Jessica, we're going to follow through and press charges." I wanted them to say, "Jessica, we're sorry."

But they wouldn't even return Paul's phone call. So Paul got angry and sent papers. Paul sent them the transcript and a list of the charges we could make--which were very heavy, heavy charges: that I was held against my will; that I was sent across state lines; the whole thing.

Then they woke up.

Golson: To whom were the papers sent?

Hahn: To PTL--Jim Bakker, Richard Dortch. Paul had someone official deliver them, like a summons. Dortch called and said, "We don't hire lawyers. We do everything on our own. We believe God is our lawyer." Then he turned right around and hired one of the biggest attorneys in the United States, Howard Weitzman--John DeLorean's attorney.

So after the PTL retained Weitzman in California, Roper and Dortch met a few times to discuss what would happen. There was finally a meeting in California.

After they met, Paul Roper came back to me and said, "Jessica, this is the thing: They want to pay you." A trust fund would be set up--the Jessica Hahn trust--at $150,000. This trust fund, Paul said, would be set up to pay me for 20 years.

Paul called me and said, "Jessica, we want to settle this and we need you to come to California." I flew to California. Now, let me set the stage: I went into Weitzman's office. Roper was present. There was Howard Weitzman, who was Jim Bakker's attorney. There was Scott Furstman, who was Howard Weitzman's assistant. And there was this retired judge, Charles Woodmansee, who I assumed was there to give an impartial hearing.

Golson: Then you were represented by a law student against one of the toughest attorneys in California and his staff.

Hahn: Yes. Paul had someone else draw up the legal papers--and I heard later that he was a law student, too. Anyway, we sat down and we read the papers--and to this day, I don't remember what I read. Something along the lines of, for 20 years, I couldn't talk with Bakker. And the same went for him. It was supposed to stop any harassment.

But I wasn't going to talk. Why would I talk? The PTL had no reason to shut me up. All they needed to do was to go back to where they started from and hush their own people. All the people that Jim Bakker complained and cried to were the ones they needed to hush up, not Jessica Hahn.

Scheer: But the PTL didn't know that. They thought they were dealing with this woman whose legal advisor was threatening to sue them and expose them.

Hahn: OK--the PTL did this to make sure I didn't talk for 20 years. That was their thinking. I hardly understood what was being said. Paul always translated it to me as "You're going to be set for life." But I didn't jump up and down. When Weitzman handed Roper the check, I asked Paul where it was going. "I'm going to put it in the bank," he said. I didn't understand where it was going. All I knew was that I was going to receive $20,000 and that Paul Roper would receive $95,000. And the rest--$150,000--would be placed in a trust. Every month, I would receive interest payments.

Scheer: What happened then?

Hahn: We left. The trust was to go into a California bank. To this day, I still don't know where my money is. All I know is that Roper and Furstman are the trustees.

Golson: Why can't you find out more?

Hahn: Every time I ask for papers, I'm told they'll be sent. I don't have anything in writing in front of me. And I don't understand that stuff--bank business.

Golson: Why did Roper get $95,000?

Hahn: Because he said that was a standard fee--30 percent.

Golson: He has since explained that he received expenses, plus $2500 a year for the 20-year trust. Since Roper took his money all at once and the trust froze when the news broke, have you gotten some money back?

Hahn: No. I don't hear much from Paul.

Golson: When Roper said, "I'll take $95,000," why were you so passive?

Hahn: Because I didn't know what the normal procedure was.

Scheer: So what did you get out of the meeting that was important to you?

Hahn: Well, I didn't get what I wanted--that paper. It was very simple: "Give me back the document I signed, and somebody please acknowledge that I have been hurt." But, in the end, I felt like I was at a real-estate meeting where somebody bought and sold a home, got their money and everybody went their way. Nothing was accomplished.

Golson: But something was accomplished. You were going to get interest payments from $150,000.

Hahn: It wasn't what I wanted! I wanted Jim Bakker to get on the phone and say, "Jessica, I was wrong. I harmed you." I wanted that document. I didn't give a damn about the money! I felt sadder than I felt even before I went in, because I thought, Now it's a 20-year secret.

Nobody ever gets back to basics. Nobody realizes what really happened. Nobody understands why Jim Bakker lost his ministry. People only see what their first love is: money. Everybody is worried about bank balances. Fine. I understand that--that's how people exist and feed their families. But from the day that it happened, there has been nothing but people making money off of this. At PTL, people were paid off by the hundreds and thousands of dollars to keep silent about the incident. When this story broke, why do you think all you saw in the papers was a money trail?

And now people are running around saying I'm capitalizing on it. What have they been doing? At least I'm doing it by making some beautiful pictures and by telling my story once and for all.

Golson: OK, assuming you were pressured into this trust arrangement, why did you continue to accept the checks?

Hahn: I accepted the money because I thought it was over; it was the way to keep peace. But why did I keep accepting the money later on? I don't know if I have an answer. Roper kept saying, "You're a rich lady," and I felt like the same thing again--a little kid.

Golson: But you'd already taken $10,000 from Cortese; once it was obvious that the $10,000 wasn't going to keep them off your back, why did you think money from a trust would be more effective?

Hahn: Because the trust was more formal--it was more binding. It came out of a meeting with a lawyer and a retired judge. It was more real to me--it made me think that this thing might really just end. It was also an admission by Bakker.

Golson: Of what?

Hahn: Of guilt. Why else do you give somebody money? In a case like mine?

Golson: Then the money did have some satisfaction for you?

Hahn: It was a way of finally saying that the first piece of paper wasn't true, because he never would have given me anything if I had really seduced him.

Golson: In another incident, before the trust was set up, a letter was sent by someone who apparently knew your story and demanded $100,000 from the PTL.

Hahn: Yes. There was a girl who I'd pulled through some tough times. I told her some of what had happened to me to make her feel better. She then wrote this letter to the PTL, which she thought was on my behalf--but I didn't know about it in advance. It later turned out she was signing my name to things and wasn't very stable. I'm sorry it happened.

Golson: That adds up to a lot of financial activity by people who said they represented you. Don't you think that's why people find it hard to believe you weren't interested in getting money from the PTL?

Hahn: If it were money I wanted, would I have had all these middlemen? I could have taken money at an early stage and just walked away--they were offering it to me! All I wanted was the document Aimee Cortese made me sign. If anyone thinks I was trying to get something out of the PTL, he's right--it was that lying document that brought the whole thing down. That's what I wanted--not money.

Scheer: Let's move ahead to when the story broke. Where were you?

Hahn: I'd moved into a small apartment--the upper floor of a house in west Babylon, Long Island. On March 18, Charley Shepard called to say that he'd finally gotten proof about the payments--from a source inside the PTL--and was breaking the story the next day.

Golson: Not from you?

Hahn: No, I refused to give him what he wanted. He got the proof on his own. I had only told Charley my side to defend myself--no more. I still didn't want it to come out. Anyway, Charley told me the big news--that Bakker was going to resign and that he said it was because he'd been "wickedly" manipulated into a sexual encounter and blackmailed. Charley asked me if I had any comment. I didn't know what to say. I said, "Jim Bakker obviously has to protect himself." I also said I wished it wasn't going to happen. All I could concentrate on was that all these church people were going to be hurt, and it was going to be my fault.

Then the news broke all over.

My first contact with a newspaper reporter, besides Charley Shepard, was when a woman from Newsday came over and got a photo of me in my boots and jeans--what I had been wearing around the house. I didn't know how I was supposed to look, what I was supposed to say. The following day, my picture came out in Newsday. That's when the image of the "sex secretary" began.

I didn't dare go anywhere. I couldn't call anyone. The news reports were nonstop. The phone began to ring--and never stopped. All I could think to do was stick to my routine, to hold on to my sanity. So I began to pedal on my exercise bike, listening to tapes. All of a sudden, I heard this rumble outside. I stopped pedaling, took off my earphones and went to the window to look out. There were vans and trucks and sound booms everywhere. There were blankets on my lawn, chairs set up. There were--no kidding--120 newspeople milling around. There were photographers on top of the vans, focusing their cameras on my window. People perched on my car. The street was blocked. And I was scared to death--I didn't dare open my door. When I did, it was just a crack to let my dog, Missy, out.

Somehow, my unlisted phone number got out--and the phone began to ring nonstop. When one call stopped, another began. The counter on my tape machine went to 100, and it just started up again, over and over. Everyone on earth wanted an interview--"Barbara Walters would like an interview, please get back to us"; "Newsweek wants to talk to you"--everyone. So I had my phone going endlessly, my dog going crazy, the little girl from downstairs bringing up messages every five minutes, microphones on the end of poles coming up to my window, bright lights all night long--and I ended up sitting in my living-room chair like this [clasps knees, rocks back and forth], saying, "My God, what do I do?"

Golson: You couldn't get any advice from anyone?

Hahn: Roper was never in. This was way past any experience my family had. I didn't have close friends or a husband. And anyway, with all the press calls, no one else could get through. Who was I going to turn to? I thought they were going to come any minute with handcuffs, just on the basis of what Bakker was saying. He was the one who knew how to talk to the press. I didn't know how to begin saying what I had to say to the press. And even then, I was afraid of speaking out. So I just hid inside for days.

Finally, when it got to be too much--the doorknobs were jiggling, people were throwing things at my window--I slipped out my front door. They weren't expecting me and there was this rush--a guy was eating pizza and dropped it when he saw me--and they knocked me over. I stood up and went back to my doorstep. I was wearing sunglasses, not just because I'd always worn them but because my eyes were a disaster from crying so much.

So I prayed, "God, help me," and I just walked up to the camera people: "Where do I go? Where do I stand?" And when everyone was ready, I just said, "My biggest concern is not to hurt the church." I know it sounds strange in retrospect, but it was all I could say. I also managed to say I was worried about my parents and my little brother, and that was why I couldn't explain very much. And that was the first time I talked to the press.

Scheer: But not the last time. Penthouse published an article by Washington Post reporter Art Harris questioning your story and quoting documents obtained by Penthouse. What was that all about?

Hahn: I saw Bob Guccione on TV one night, saying he thought I was being manipulated. I was as low as could be, I had no lawyer, and I was impressed that he was so direct. I knew I wasn't going to be able to tell my story to a family newspaper. So I called him. I went over to his town house in New York. We met in a conference room. There was security all over the place and big, huge dogs. To impress me, he told me he could find out in 24 hours who had sold the transcript of the tape I made for Roper, which the Star, The Washington Post and everyone else was publishing. Ironically, that transcript is most of what Penthouse ended up publishing as its "exclusive" story.

Guccione told me that night how hungry he was for this story; that he wanted to get Falwell and the others for having cost him $12,000,000 worth of magazine business; and that payment to me would be "endless."

Scheer: Did he say how much?

Hahn: He just said it would be endless. But first he wanted to wire me up.

Scheer: What do you mean?

Hahn: He wanted to hide wires on me and send me out to tape-record people like Falwell and Jim Bakker. By myself. I left without saying much, but I was scared to death. It seemed crazy and dangerous, someone wiring me. As I left, Guccione said, "Call me any time, night or day, Jessica. I never sleep." I felt I was leaving some dark place.

Scheer: How did you feel when you read the Penthouse story?

Hahn: What Penthouse did is no different from what Bakker and Falwell and some of the others have done--taken my story and used it for their own benefit. The Washington Post reporter, Art Harris, was someone I trusted. He said he had compassion for me, believed me and wanted me to deal only with him. Then he went to Penthouse.

Scheer: Did either Guccione or Harris ever challenge your story when they were trying to convince you to deal with them?

Hahn: No, never. They both said they were totally on my side.

Golson: How do you feel about the fact that some people will continue to call you a liar?

Hahn: Resigned to it. I'm finally telling my story my way--but to a lot of people who knew me back when, that translates into money and celebrity. And it will attract people who want a part of this. They'll claim that I slept around or that I was a bad person or that I took more money or--I don't know if it will ever stop.

But what's ironic is, what does any of this have to do with what's important? I mean, what would it matter if I'd slept around a lot--which I haven't? Despite any rumors you might hear, I'm here to tell you, as God is my witness, that I was a virgin before 1980 and that my experience since then has been very, very limited. Anyway, isn't what happened inside that hotel room what's important? That a preacher I worshiped forced himself on me and, on that same afternoon, the preacher who baptized me did even worse? That's why I've given all the details I remember of the incident--so they won't be able to lie again about that.

If some of the things that have happened to me and some of the people who've been around my life seem kind of strange to normal people, well, it seems that way to me, too, now. I can't believe how complicated it's been. And I sure haven't always had the best taste in who I turned to for advice or help. But this is the environment I came out of. It wasn't because I went looking for the complications.

Golson: But it was not just the small-timers who jumped on this story, was it? A few days after the news broke, the big-time TV preachers were in full cry, weren't they?

Hahn: Yes, everyone had an angle. Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, John Ankerberg, they all used me. The Roper tape was not only played for the Assemblies of God people but Jimmy Swaggart, who is not a member, also listened to the tape. As for John Ankerberg, he took a copy of the tape and, from what I understand, not only listened to it but began to hand copies out.

These men couldn't wait to go on TV and say, "I listened to a tape, and this poor little girl...." They all got up and said how victimized I was, yet they used me, too. They loved the details. They had to pick a side--and they said to themselves, "If we're going to fight Jim Bakker, who are we going to fight him with? What tool can we use?" And the only tool they could use was Jessica Hahn.

I was used. I was not cared about. It was pretty obvious I had no one to turn to, but no one said, "What can we do for you?" But when it came time to go on television, they all had a lot to say about me. I hate Jim Bakker for that and I hate John Fletcher for that, but I do not need these other men coming along and playing God and deciding that Jim Bakker should burn and they're going to do it. Because when they burn Bakker, they burn Jessica. It's been a war of words--their war--with my name as the weapon. Each man had his own vendetta.

Scheer: So you weren't able to take much comfort from any of the church people who came to your aid.

Hahn: Right. Most of them turned out to be the ones who hurt me the most.

Golson: But you're not referring to the people from mainstream churches. You're talking about----

Hahn:That circle, that world, that clique of churches. And that's why it felt like being mistreated by your own family. It's like a child-abuse story. A child goes to the mother or the father because that child believes they cannot do wrong. Then the parent abuses that child. So the child feels helpless and asks, "Where do I go? These were the very people I loved and needed, but they turned on me."

Golson: Didn't anyone come to the door and say, "How are you?" or bring you some fruit, that kind of thing?

Hahn: No. I paid somebody to go out and buy my groceries. I couldn't leave because of the press--ropes were finally put up. You know, I saw the transcript of the tape I'd made for Roper appear in the Star and The Washington Post at the same time everyone else did, and I wondered how it got in there. When I asked about it, nobody knew. I would like to know how these things got out--these little bits and pieces of the story that I never confirmed or talked about until this day.

Golson: But didn't you give out some bits and pieces yourself? Aside from the newspaper reporters we mentioned, there was a period when you would talk with disc jockeys and wire-service reporters, sounding very disoriented. What was going through your mind then?

Hahn: I was trying to make a decision alone--without a lawyer, without an agent, without any kind of representation--as to how I was going to straighten things out. So if U.P.I. or A.P. called me, I would pick up the phone. But basically, the stories were just about my background--where I lived and what I was like. But I learned real quick that the press publishes what it wants.

At one point, I decided to be brave and agreed to go on the Phil Donahue show. I just showed up in the car they sent and walked into the waiting room. Phil came in and looked around. "What?" he said. "No lawyers, no agents?" I just looked at him and said, "It's just me, Phil." But when I did his show, I managed not to talk about my story for a full hour. I just wanted people to get a little impression of me, not to believe I was some slut.

Golson: You also began having breakfast conversations on the air with Howard Stern, a comic d.j. who specializes in near-obscene radio talk. How did that dialog come to happen?

Hahn: When Howard Stern called, I was like a caged animal. I was sleeping one morning and I heard someone saying through the answering machine, "Jessica, Jessica, pick up," so I figured it was somebody I knew. Nobody just gets on the phone and says that. So I picked up and he said, "It's Howard Stern, and you are on the air."

And as sad as it may sound, Howard Stern was somebody on the outside, talking like a human being to me. Even though we were on the air, I said, "I'll take it," because I was desperate.

Golson: Because he was the only one asking how you were?

Hahn: Exactly. He never asked me about Bakker. He just said, "What are they doing to you? Are you all right?" I was so desperate for some human contact--for somebody--that I took his calls.

Golson: Isn't that part of why people saw you the way they did? Here was an apparently intelligent woman talking about her abuse on an outrageous radio show. Wasn't it an odd way for you to vent your feelings about something as serious as what was happening?

Hahn: It shows you how desperate I was; that is all I can say. That is the point I was at: I needed somebody to listen to me and, out of all these people, Howard Stern cared about me. "Jessica, are you all right?"

Golson: Wasn't your pastor there through that period?

Hahn: But I didn't want to get him involved. I told him, "I'll be all right. Just stick to preaching. Don't be a part of this." He knew all along the pain I was in, but what was he going to do, sit there and have people snap pictures of him?

That was part of my learning process. He obviously cared about me, but I realized I couldn't go through life depending on these people.

Scheer: But from what we can see, you're still not free of them, even though you're finally telling your story.

Hahn: Yes, the calls and threats keep coming in. The fact that I can talk about things now is a relief, a release--and they want to steal that. They want to turn it into something to their advantage.

Golson: Are these powerful people?

Hahn: No. These are everyday people. Homemakers. People who are aggravated because I'm not under their thumb. People who don't know my whereabouts and are frustrated because I'm not responding to their every whim anymore.

I came that close to suicide. And they kept it up! You know, I fell off a horse once and broke ribs. I came real close to dying. My ribs were broken and I injured my kidney and hit my head. While I was in the hospital, the first phone call I got was: "Jessica, I wish you would have died." This was a church person.

These are the things that come back to me now. These are the kind of people that I had around me. And it makes me so angry, because these are the people I loved so much and wanted to please so much. They take my kindness for stupidity. And it's just not true. I am kind, but I am not stupid. And they used that. They saw I was friendly and called me a flirt.

Before, I depended on these people for love, for support, for guidance and direction. And now that I'm more in control of things, it drives them nuts. To think that for a second I might be able to make a decision by myself! I don't ever have to ask for their advice anymore. I don't need their love anymore. And I guess I never had it in the first place. In a way, it was always fake--it was false.

Now I feel I've snapped out of something. I can separate the good from the bad. I am on my way to being happy.

Golson: But can you really tell the difference between bad people and good people? After all, you say you were assaulted by Fletcher, the very man who had baptized you at the age of 14. How can anyone tell if you couldn't?

Hahn: John Fletcher only glorified John Fletcher. When you are in a church and you look around, you have to ask, "Does this glorify God?" The secret is to go to church and see if people are talking about themselves and their own problems or talking about God.

We all know there are bills to pay. But if I wanted spiritual help, I wouldn't want to hear Jim Bakker using precious TV time to complain about the press being mean to him for his wife's mink coat. I would want help.

And that's how I feel about all those other ministers right now, too. They all do it--Falwell, Swaggart, all of them. They need to stop talking, to stop pleading. They need to get back and realize that somebody hung on the cross for a reason! That there are people who are dying and hurting and have nothing--no love!

Golson: All of this is tumbling out of you as if it's been pent up, waiting to come out all these years.

Hahn: Yes. And it's because those people told me for so long, "Just shut up, Jessica. We have much bigger problems than yours." But what makes me angry as hell is that their big problems are, How are they going to look in front of the public? What are they going to say about their college or their $1,000,000 building that they built for no other reason than because it makes them look more powerful and big?

A church is to minister. These buildings are being built in a competition for money. There's no reason to put yourself in debt because you had to build 70 buildings that make the place look like Walt Disney World. These buildings aren't going to help people. They're just buildings.

If you're going to use all your television time to cry that you can't pay for anything, stop building for a while and get back on track. Then you could minister!

Golson: What would you say today to a 14-year-old who walked into the kind of church you did?

Hahn: I would say, "Worship the way you want to, not the way the preachers tell you to. Have a relationship with God, not God's representatives. Realize that preachers are only a vessel, only a tool. And don't be misled, don't put your life in their hands, as I did.

"Keep your mind. You can become so caught up in one man's way of thinking that you do lose your own mind. You start saying, 'Well, I'll just leave it to him to decide. If he says wearing make-up is wrong, then I'm just not going to wear it.' You can be so heavenly minded that you become no earthly good.

"Just get back to basics. If you're going into church, don't get into the politics, don't become part of a clique. Just go in there, worship, love God, give 100 percent of yourself and go your way. Don't allow them to say where you're going to school, who you can and can't talk to. You've got to use your own brain. Don't lock yourself in. Remember this isn't your whole world--you can bring God with you wherever you go."

Golson: You said you snapped out of something, as if you had awakened. Looking back, what do you think of the kind of conditioning you went through?

Hahn: It starts when you're a child. You walk in a place and everything is wonderful and you think, This is where I want to spend the rest of my life. As a kid, you're easily influenced--you believe everything and everybody and just want to hang on. And I think in my case, it turned negative.

I'm glad that this is finally me now. Not a little girl who is being influenced by all these big men that have all this power. It's Jessica now--making decisions on her own. But this hasn't been easy. I'm not going to lie to you. Suddenly, you look back at what's happened and you say, "My God, my life really was destroyed by this."

Golson: Now where are we? Are we talking about the events in the hotel or----

Hahn: I'm talking about from the time I was 14 years old up until now! The church and worship and my personal relationship with God are probably the best things that ever happened to me, only the people surrounding it were not the best thing that happened to me. I can't understand how I could have allowed all of this to happen in the first place. What allowed me to trust people and let them use me? What allowed me to get to that point? What kind of techniques did they use? What did all of these little men have that allowed them to do this to me?

So it's amazing and it's depressing and it's scary and it saddens me, because I realize that all of my 20s, all of my teen years--all of my life--have been influenced by this. It feels like I went to sleep on my 14th birthday and didn't wake up until my 28th.

That was the day that I said, "That's it. I've got to get help." From someone, some institution that wasn't involved in this clique of people. I thought, I am not going to take this anymore. I can't lie under the covers. I am 28 and I have done absolutely nothing with my life but accommodate these people. I have gone nowhere. I have no money. I have $40 and my heart is breaking and I'm mad as hell. I was also close to ending it for myself.

Within hours, things changed. I picked up the closest thing to me--the New York Post--and I saw Dominic Barbara's name in it. He's a divorce attorney on Long Island. I liked his style. So I called him, we signed a real contract, and I ended up here talking to you.

Golson: How did the Playboy pictures go?

Hahn: Now, don't laugh, but I believe this experience has brought me closer to God. In my quiet moments, my faith was all I had. In Chicago, when I was at Playboy to be photographed, I'd go for walks by Lake Michigan and talk with God. I'd say, "God, help me through this. I need a friend." I couldn't call anyone. Who else was in my shoes? Who else could understand where I was coming from? So I'd walk by the water and say, "God, help me; it's really You and me right now."

Scheer: Did you think you might be doing the wrong thing by posing for the pictures?

Hahn: No, but I wondered. I prayed one day and said, "God, please, if I'm doing the wrong thing, just show me." And this is probably going to sound real corny, but I asked for a sign if I was doing wrong. I said, "God, I feel at peace about what I'm doing, but I don't want to be this woman who marked the church in the Eighties; I don't want to be this woman who is identified with evil. I want to be identified with You. I'm doing all of this in Playboy, and I know why I'm doing it. It's because You made me this way and I'm not ashamed of what You created. But I need a sign just to be sure."

And as I was walking--you don't have to believe me, but this is true--I saw a rainbow. I saw it, and it was like "Hey, I'm here for you. You're going to be OK. I'm on your side." That was enough for me. God may not always be there when you want Him, but He's there when you need Him. I didn't have a church or a preacher to run to. I had just me and God walkin'.

Scheer: You're something of a preacher yourself, Jessica.

Hahn: Well, I know how ironic it is to be saying this in Playboy, but--it's the time and the place. If Playboy wants the truth, this is all of it. Not just the pictorial, not just the hotel encounter. You're going to have all of me. My whole dream was just to get that message across. You don't have to be just one way to love God.

Golson: And you remain comfortable with your decision?

Hahn:Playboy allowed me to be myself, to do what I wanted to do. I don't believe anyone else has ever done that for me in my life. Playboy did more for me than I could ever do for Playboy. It gave me a new lease on life.

Golson: Wouldn't some say there was a price tag here, too--that you took your clothes off as the cost of telling your story?

Hahn: That's not a price to pay: Nobody forced me to take my clothes off. They simply said, "You decide, Jessica. You decide."

Golson: Well, Jessica, for someone who was so careful and so quiet about this story--this whole story--for so long, you've certainly opened up.

Hahn: One hesitation I had all along about telling the raw truth was that it would leave people with a bad feeling. My whole goal was to tell it in a way where there was a happy ending despite the bad stuff. My goal was to show that at the end, you can survive something like this. You're not a slave anymore. You're free.

Golson: And what do you have to say to those people you were so afraid of hurting for so long--people who truly believed in Jim Bakker and who say you destroyed that faith?

Hahn: Look, in the Bible, God used a jackass to get His message across. God will use anybody. Because we're really all just vessels. Sure, He used Jim Bakker. I believe He used Jim Bakker. I'm not denying it. But if people say I destroyed their faith in him, then they had their faith in the wrong thing. If you're going to have your faith in Jim Bakker or in Jessica Hahn, sure it's going to fail. That's why I say, "Have faith in God, not people. They're going to fail you every time."

Scheer: Still, Playboy is an unexpected forum in which to read this kind of talk.

Hahn: I've prayed about it many times and I've felt at peace about it. You know, the body is something God made, and what God made is good; it shouldn't be abused. And I don't mean in just a hotel room. I mean, it shouldn't be exploited, as it is in some magazines. But if you're going to just appreciate something pretty in a nice way, it's how people choose to see it.

God made Adam and Eve this way and it wasn't until they sinned and noticed each other's nakedness that it became wrong, that they covered themselves. They ate the apple and there was sin--and when there was sin, they covered up.

Everything out there is for us--trees, stars--because God loved us so much, He gave us all of this to enjoy. For no other reason than for us to enjoy. Nature is really beautiful--it's people who make ugliness.

Scheer: How about your own happy ending? How far have you come from that day in 1980? How about love and romance?

Hahn: Well, it took me years to realize it was those men who were wrong, not me. I thought for a while that every time I thought of a man and a woman together, it would remind me of pain.

It took me a long time to realize that it is not that way. That a body is something God created, and it is precious, it is a miracle, it is not to be abused and it is not ugly. I learned to appreciate a human body and see it as something beautiful. As something precious, to be handled gently, delicately.

Golson: Why didn't this experience--both physical and mental--overwhelm you? What were you able to draw on?

Hahn: I finally realized all these things led to God. These guys--all of them--are the ones who messed up. God didn't. And I finally got my priorities in order and stopped worshiping them.

It's so easy to become wrapped up--to let people run your life. It's so easy because you want so badly to be loved. Everybody needs to be loved. That's why a church is so important in people's lives--people just need to be loved. And some pay a high price for that love. I did.

" 'Bakker wants to see you again. He's willing to pay your way anywhere to do anything.' "