20 Questions: Joe Pesci

It has been a hell of a year for Joe Pesci. Since winning an Academy Award last spring for his portrayal of Tommy DeVito in "GoodFellas," he has worked on roles in "The Super," "My Cousin Vinny," "The Public Eye," "JFK," "Home Alone II" and "Lethal Weapon 3," as well as admitting irreconcilable differences with his 24-year-old third wife, Marti. Now he's really tired, he told writer Julie Bain when they met in New York. She reports: "Slumped in a chair, the 48-year-old seems even smaller than his five feet, five inches. But don't call him short. 'Watch it--your shins are in my way,' he says. 'I'll kick ya.' In some ways, he seems every bit the volatile tough guy he often portrays. Wearing black leather, he demonstrates a street-fighting technique for--literally--ripping off an opponent's nose. 'I wouldn't call myself an animal,' he says, 'but some people probably would.' On the other hand, when asked how he feels about being called cuddly, he replies, 'That doesn't bother me. I've been called a lot of things. Cuddly is not one that hurts. I don't think anything hurts anymore.'

"Pesci grew up in Newark, the youngest of three children. He revealed a showbiz disposition early, perfecting his impression of Jimmy Durante by the age of five. His family loved his work, but it wasn't until his 1980 role as Joey in 'Raging Bull' that he received much public acclaim.

1.

[Q] Playboy: While you were growing up in Newark, your father sent you to acting, singing and guitar lessons. At the age of ten, you were a regular on the TV show Star Time Kids with Connie Francis. And you dropped out of high school to work as a singer and a comedian. In the Sixties, you even recorded an album called Little Joe Sure Can Sing. Care to buy back the copies still out there?

[A] Pesci: Actually, I still sing the same type of songs. When I'm under stress, I pick up the guitar and sing those "down" jazz-blues songs to myself. I did the album as Little Joe Ritchie, after a great jazz-blues singer friend of mine, Little Jimmy Scott. I patterned my singing style after him. So I took that name to honor him. I still sing like him, but I also sing a lot like me. And I can swing a little now. It's easier to swing when you have money in your pocket.

2.

[Q] Playboy: You've had to struggle for success in your acting career. You made your film debut in Death Collector, which became sort of a cult hit, in 1976. But for many years after that, you were unemployed and broke. What's the most important thing you learned during that time?

[A] Pesci: Not to look for someone else to help me in life--for anything. The biggest thing is not to depend. After Death Collector, I went to Los Angeles with some friends who'd made the movie. I couldn't get an agent. Nobody was interested in me. So I went to Los Vegas to see a friend. He gave me a room in his home and I started working for a mason.

[A] I went through some really tough times there. I remember getting the flu. My friend and his wife were away and I was alone. I couldn't lift my head off the bed. I remember crawling to the bathroom, I was so sick. At one point, I called a taxi and went to the hospital emergency room. I had nothing. I had no doctor. I didn't have any money. I said, "Where are all the women in my life who told me they loved me and cared about me?" My family would have been there for me, but they all had their own things. My father was in the hospital in a coma and my mother was with him. I was totally alone. I was really angry. When I started to get my strength back, I said, "I will never, ever ask anyone for anything ever again. I will take what I want." I was very bitter, very nasty about it. It's a terrible attitude. But I'm sure there are a lot of people in the world who get to that point. It's to get you off your ass and stop waiting for someone else to help you get somewhere.

3.

[Q] Playboy: But someone did help you get somewhere. While you were managing a restaurant in the Bronx, you got a call from Robert De Niro about the role of Joey in Raging Bull, which rekindled your acting career and resulted in an Oscar nomination. How much have you had to compromise as an actor?

[A] Pesci: Actors take shit constantly. Show business makes whores out of women and fags out of men, because you sell yourself up and down the line and become a piece of shit for everyone else. At some point, you have to say, "Fuck this! I'm not gonna be nice when I don't have to be nice. If somebody's an asshole, he's gonna get treated like an asshole. I don't care who he is." When I came out of the Bronx, I did not care. If a director or a producer said something to me with an attitude, I would look him in the face and say, "Who the fuck are you talking to?"

[A] That attitude can't help you get anywhere. The only way it can work for you is if it makes you feel better. I'm not saying you have to go around with a chip on your shoulder. But it certainly helps you get to a point where you're not giving credibility to an asshole who's abusing you just because he's in a position where he thinks he can.

4.

[Q] Playboy: Some people say they're afraid of you because you tell them to go fuck themselves.

[A] Pesci: People are afraid of that? I don't understand why they would be afraid to have someone tell them to go fuck themselves--unless they needed it. Only if they needed it would I tell them to go fuck themselves. I don't go around bothering people. I never did. But there are people who need it, and they should be told. It's a nasty job, but somebody has to tell them.

5.

[Q] Playboy: You've played a lot of tough guys. Where did you learn to fight?

[A] Pesci: In the neighborhoods where I grew up. I wasn't a sissy, but I wasn't a tough guy. I've had my share of losing fights. I would rather fight and lose than not fight and have to go to bed nights wondering why I didn't. So I got to be pretty good at taking it and then, after a while, at dishing it out.

[A] If you know you can't get out of a fight, you have to protect yourself. You have to hit first, hit hard and not stop until the other person is rendered helpless, so you can walk away. Listen, if you want to fight with me, who says there are going to be rules? I kick, I punch, I bite, I pull hair out, rip your nose off, stick my hand down your throat, bite your ear off--anything. You have to be willing to go all the way--either that or run. I've been involved with some pretty big guys. You don't see any marks on me, do you? I'm not into that anymore. There's too much of a chance of getting hurt or hurting someone else. It's not worth it. But it's a helpful thing to know when you go out.

6.

[Q] Playboy: You made Tommy in GoodFellas a complex character. He could be charming, funny, vulnerable or frightening. Where did you get all that? Did you hang out with wiseguys?

[A] Pesci: So much of Tommy was not a wiseguy--it was just personal. A lot of him is like me. I've done some crazy, crazy stuff. We all know people like Tommy--you walk on eggshells when you talk to them, because you know the least little thing can provoke an argument and they're gonna get nasty and crazy. Tommy displays those moments that a lot of people have--they're lying if they say they haven't. It's there in all of us.

7.

[Q] Playboy: But haven't you known your share of wiseguys?

[A] Pesci: I worked in night clubs. And when you work in night clubs, you're exposed to all elements. You run into more phonies than anybody. Half the time, people say they're something they're not because they want attention or because of fear or power. You don't know who you're running into till someone says, "That guy is so-and-so." Half of them are bookies or gamblers. Everybody bets sports. Everybody bets numbers. What, does that make the whole world the Mafia?

[A] Mobsters don't have to show it. They weren't the ones who'd abuse you and treat you like a jerk in a club. They were the ones who'd buy you a drink and offer your wife or girlfriend a chair. They were polite. They were nicer, in a way. They had a certain power and they didn't have to show anything.

8.

[Q] Playboy: Is part of GoodFellas' appeal nostalgia for a time when crime was organized?

[A] Pesci: It's not the Mafia that's bothering anybody. Nowadays, gangs of every nationality are the ones you have to worry about. You don't get any warnings. My character, Tommy, was psychotic, in a way. But you wouldn't catch him mugging an old lady on the train. He wouldn't rob your mother. The Mobsters played by their own rules. They did it with themselves, among themselves. They had their dignity.

9.

[Q] Playboy: Does GoodFellas create nostalgia for a time when men were manlier--for example, if somebody hassled your girlfriend, you beat him up?

[A] Pesci: That's admirable. Nowadays, a guy probably wouldn't do that. Maybe the right guy would. A lot of women find that appealing. Not that they should go provoke those kinds of things, because there are some women who love that stuff. But it's comforting to know that your man would smack somebody in the face who insulted you. It's romantic. It's protecting someone you love. I don't think talking to that guy would stop him from doing it again to someone else. The thing people understand most is fear. They have to see some kind of violence before they respect something. I don't know why.

10.

[Q] Playboy: What should a man look for in a woman?

[A] Pesci: A woman should be very much in love with the man she's with. If they are really in love, everything else will take care of itself. If he were eating and something fell, she would automatically get up to clean it right away--not because that's her position but because she's in love with the person and helps make his life easier and better. It goes right down the line with whether she does the ironing or washing or cooking. If she's in love, she'll want to do it, especially if he's working and she's not.

[A] She should be aggressive when it starts, I guess. But I also like a woman who is passive and quiet--and very smart. She should be very sexy. I don't like a woman who tries to be sexy. You either have it or you don't. If you're really in love, you have it, because that person will turn you on so much that you will turn her on, no matter what you do.

11.

[Q] Playboy: Leo Getz, your endearing money-laundering character in Lethal Weapon, always prefaces his remarks with a frenetic "OK, OK, OK." You've said you got that mannerism from the eager young help at Disneyland. What were you doing at Disneyland?

[A] Pesci: A long time ago, Mickey Rourke and I went to see Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons sing there. We were lost and asked some kids for directions.

12.

[Q] Playboy: Did you do Home Alone because you knew it would be a success?

[A] Pesci: Oh, Jesus, I didn't want to do Home Alone. But they kept offering me more money. I wanted a point or two, because I told them it was gonna be a huge success. They wouldn't give me points, but they kept offering more money. So I took the job, knowing that I was gonna make a bunch of kids happy, which was fine with me. I was gonna play a cartoon character. Home Alone II, I'm doing for the money. And I get points this time. I guess there's some justice.

13.

[Q] Playboy: You play the homosexual CIA pilot and anti-Castro soldier of fortune David Ferrie in the upcoming Oliver Stone movie JFK. Has your opinion of the conspiracy theories changed since you've been working on this film?

[A] Pesci: I never cared about them before. I didn't think it would change anything to dig it all up. So I left it alone. What I like about Oliver Stone is that he doesn't give a fuck about us anymore. He wants young people to think about it so that it doesn't happen to anyone else--if it happened. You have to dig in, you have to question. That's what he's saying. There's nothing wrong with that.

[A] I did a lot of research for the character. I play characters that everyone else thinks are the worst people in the world, but I don't. This guy [Ferrie] was going to be a priest. And he had this other quirk: He was a homosexual. And they defrocked him. That's the thing that threw him way off. He had a great mind, he spoke five languages and was well read. And he was very, very intelligent politically. He was a big sympathizer with the Cubans. He got fanatical. It's easy to become fanatical when you are intelligent and people are constantly fucking with you. He had good intentions, but he turned out bad. Yes, he thought Kennedy was no fucking good. He hated him and he wanted him killed. Hating was his prerogative. A lot of people in politics make bad moves; you don't kill them for it.

14.

[Q] Playboy: You've been working your ass off lately. What has that done to your golf game? And how's your temper on the course?

[A] Pesci: Jesus, work has killed my golf game. And, no, it's not true that I have a violent temper on the golf course. Dennis Hopper started that story. If (concluded on page 195)Joe Pesci(continued from page 168) anybody's got a temper, it's Dennis. I am so relaxed on the golf course. You can ask anyone who plays with me. Even if I play terribly, you'll never see me throw a club. One time, maybe seven years ago, I broke a club on a tree that I had hit on a backswing. But it was the only time I had ever done that, and it didn't have anything to do with golf. I was very upset about my career and my life. I'm very calm on the golf course. I can play thirtysix holes and go home and just pass out.

15.

[Q] Playboy: You're working on a project for next year called Disturbing the Peace, based on Richard Yates's book about an advertising executive who fights alcoholism and mental illness. How did you research that role?

[A] Pesci: I already researched it when I was young. I drank a lot. I took some drugs. There were times when I thought I was going crazy and times that I was called crazy. I read Richard Yates's book and said, "Fuck, how come this guy went crazy and I didn't?" I let some people in Hollywood read the book, and they said it was a little dark. I think it's charming, a lot of fun. I think the guy is crazy and funny to watch. Everybody can relate to him. How many times are you in a conversation and you think of something you want to say but you don't say it? This guy says it; he doesn't care. He says to his friend, "I know why I married my wife--'cause she's got big tits. But how come you married that fuckin' alligator you're with?" Who would tell that to his friend? It will make people laugh and say, "Well, somebody who would do that is crazy." Is he? Who's to say? He said all he wanted to do was find peace in total chaos. Maybe that's what he did.

16.

[Q] Playboy: Before the Academy Awards, there was a "Wayne's World" episode on Saturday Night Live in which Wayne and Garth, the co-hosts, decide they like the sound of your name. So for the rest of the show, they keep saying, "I feel very Pesci today." How would you describe feeling "very Pesci"?

[A] Pesci: I don't go through a whole day without complaining. I complain and bitch about a lot of things. And I'm a know-it-all. One girl said to me, "Do you know what it's like living with you for two years and never being right?"

17.

[Q] Playboy: Most of your roles feature male bonding rather than romance. Why haven't we seen you in a sexy leadingman role?

[A] Pesci: One hasn't popped up yet. But a good love story would be a good opportunity. I wouldn't want to do it just to do it. I wouldn't want to show it like everyone else shows it. In My Cousin Vinny, there's a little romance. Marisa Tomei and I played it as real as you can play a couple like that. These two people from the Bronx are funny, and you can tell that they really love each other, and they fight, and they've been engaged for, like, ten years. You see us hug and kiss and you know we're going to get into it. We go to bed, but you don't see us fucking or any of that nonsense. It's not the ultimate love story. But if I find the right story and the right person, I'll do it. I mean, I think I can be as charming as anybody else.

18.

[Q] Playboy: You've said you're a vindictive person. Has there been one particularly satisfying vindictive moment for you?

[A] Pesci: After Raging Bull, someone offered me something and I passed. And he said to me, "Don't be bitter." And I said, "Go fuck yourself. How's that for being bitter? Fuck you." I told this story to an acting class in L.A. not long ago, and they came out of their seats because they could understand it. Here's the point: It's always the person who has fucked you who says, "Don't be bitter." It's always the person who has made life miserable for you and had the upper hand. At some point, why shouldn't you stop the shit that keeps falling on you? Is that being vindictive?

19.

[Q] Playboy: Now that you have success, respect and an Oscar, what do you fear?

[A] Pesci: The same thing everybody fears: death. It's not knowing why we're here and what the hell we're doing. I can't get over it. It seems like we're born to die, and we're just jerking off in between to make ourselves feel good. And we're all fighting about who's jerking who off--who's fucking who and why. Literally and figuratively. And there's also the fear that I can't stop thinking about it. I always think about the song The Rose, that says, "[It's] the soul afraid of dyin' that never learns to live."

20.

[Q] Playboy: Some people consider the Academy Awards a popularity contest. Why in the world do you think you won?

[A] Pesci: I didn't understand it. It was a very spiritual moment for me. I didn't think I was gonna win, first of all, so I had no speech prepared. And I wouldn't prepare a speech, anyway. At one point, I was gonna attempt to say something. But all I said was, "It was my privilege--thank you." You feel like you're in a contest you didn't ask to be in. I wanted Al Pacino to win. I've always thought it was a popularity contest, and then I had to throw that theory out the window because they gave it to me. You know, I thought they were all full of shit, and now they had to give me one. It's like they're crazy. But it's such an honor, in a way. I still get a chill when I think about it.

[A] So, I guess I didn't tell everybody to go fuck off. Some people don't deserve it. But when somebody needs it, somebody should tell him. You should tell him. Remember that. Spread the word. Go in peace--and be bitter.

ok, ok, ok: inch for inch, the busiest man on screen tells us how to street-fight, why life requires a dash of bitters and how much he hates to be home alone

"One girl said to me, 'Do you know what it's like living with you for two years and never being right?'"