Nina Hartley is the Smartest Woman in Porn

and, as Chip Rowe found out, that's saying a mouthful

Nina Hartley began her career as a sex performer in 1983, dancing nude once a week at the O'Farrell Theater in San Francisco while she went to school. In 1984, while pursuing a nursing degree at San Francisco State University, she appeared in the first of more than 400 triple-X films. (She graduated magna cum laude from SFSU in 1985.) Today, at 37, Hartley continues to star in adult movies and commands as much as $10,000 a week to dance at gentlemen's clubs. She is also an advocate for sexual freedom, lobbying California legislators for more-liberal dancing laws and writing essays such as "Frustrations of a Feminist Porn Star" and "Pornography at the Millennium." Last year she crossed over to Hollywood, briefly, playing the nymphomaniacal wife of a porn crew member in the hit film "Boogie Nights."

Hartley lives in San Francisco with her husband, Dave, and their girlfriend, Bobby Lilly. They are dedicated nonmonogamists.

[Q] Playboy: You attended a swing party last night. How did it go?

[A] Hartley: We had a wonderful time. There were seven couples, five of whom participated. You're not obligated to do anything but be honest and polite.

[Q] Playboy: As they say, "If you can't fuck your friends, who can you fuck?"

[A] Hartley: Exactly. You have to like the people, because after you have sex, you usually talk. It's an extremely female-positive environment. When the women want sex, it happens.

[Q] Playboy: Is oral sex adultery?

[A] Hartley: It depends on the rules you have with your partner. If he goes beyond the bounds of the agreement, that's adultery. On the other hand, women need to relax. For a lot of guys, getting a blow job is not intimate. They don't connect emotionally, and they don't love their partners less because of it. Hillary shouldn't give a hoot.

[Q] Playboy: Have you ever blown someone you didn't want to?

[A] Hartley: Sure, but it's only a blow job. It'll be over soon and I won't have to do it again. When I find myself thinking that, I work hard to make the guy come as quickly as possible.

[Q] Playboy: What's the best way to get a guy off fast?

[A] Hartley: Grab his dick, look into his eyes, talk nasty. Mesmerize him. The deal I have with my husband is that I will never say no. Even if I'm half asleep, I will still do my enthusiastic, sloppy blow job best. Hmmm, slurp, smack. I'll be so into it. But he only gets five minutes. If he doesn't come by then, it's not my problem. I've known so many women who feel used because the guy takes 20 or 30 minutes. I say, "Don't let him." But he also shouldn't have to masturbate when there's a lovely, warm body next to him.

[Q] Playboy: How does your three-way relationship work? Do all of you share one bed?

[A] Hartley: Bobby has a bedroom and I have a bedroom and Dave bounces back and forth. If I were going to redo the logistics, I'd give Dave his own bedroom and Bobby and I would share a girls' room.

[Q] Playboy: The three of you put a lot of thought into creating Nina's public persona. What made you decide the world needed Nina Hartley?

[A] Hartley: In the early Eighties, a lot of sex-negative forces were heating up. I was a bisexual exhibitionist--what was I going to do with myself? We asked ourselves what pro-sex feminist rhetoric would sound like, and Nina came out of that.

[Q] Playboy: So from the beginning, Nina had to be--

[A] Hartley: Accepting. A champion of desire.

[Q] Playboy: How did you get into porn?

[A] Hartley: It was a gradual process. The first step was learning to accept a massage. Then I learned to dance nude in front of a mirror without dying of embarrassment. Then I danced for my husband. Then I did an amateur night at a strip club. I enjoyed the attention. Attention is why anybody gets onstage, with or without their clothes. My first film was Educating Nina in 1984.

[Q] Playboy: What sex advice do you have for men?

[A] Hartley: Never date a woman who doesn't masturbate. She doesn't know what turns her on, or how to ask for it.

(continued on page 157)Nina Hartley(continued from page 118)

[Q] Playboy: How about the man who wants to improve his cunnilingus skills?

[A] Hartley: Pay attention. It's hard to eat pussy. You can get lost in it. If something clicks and you can tell she's not with you anymore, press your mouth on her vulva for a minute. She'll start moving and let you know what pace you need to get back to. It's like downshifting. You rev up the gear and then put in the clutch.

[Q] Playboy: What's the most common mistake men make?

[A] Hartley: They head right for the clit. Look, I can make her jump! What I find as a recipient is that so many people feel they have to "do" me. They nail me to the bed. Back off! If you hold the clit right, the woman's breathing and heartbeat will move it enough.

[Q] Playboy: What's the first thing you notice on a naked man?

[A] Hartley: Lately? Whether he's circumcised. I used to be neutral, but now I'm against it. Not only is it torture for an infant, but the foreskin is not useless. It keeps the head of the penis delicate and sensitive, and it has nerve endings that add to sexual pleasure. I'm meeting more white men in their 20s who are intact.

[Q] Playboy: What is the most hateful thing someone has said to you?

[A] Hartley: "I hope you never have kids." That was when I was a guest on Donahue. People tell me I'm delusional, that I'm a tramp, that I have no self-respect. In some towns, people might pull their children away and hiss. Yet we're talking about consensual sex between adults. That's how demonized sex has become.

[Q] Playboy: It's hard to insult you.

[A] Hartley: A tramp or slut is a woman who likes sex. I'm like, "Yeah, what's your point?"

[Q] Playboy: What do your parents think of your career?

[A] Hartley: At first my mother was distraught. Had she been such a bad mother? My parents haven't seen any of my movies, because it's obviously not appropriate for your parents to watch you fucking.

[Q] Playboy: What about the rest of your family?

[A] Hartley: I'm on speaking terms with everyone but one brother. I suspect he's upset because I ruined porn for him. He can never flip through a skin magazine because he might see his sister. And I'm the type he looks for--a blonde with a big butt.

[Q] Playboy: Does porn degrade women?

[A] Hartley: The antiporn people say porn shows women as whores by nature, and that men like to see women made miserable. But the simple fantasy of porn is that women want sex as much as men do. The cliché is that men give love to get sex, and that women give sex to get love. But women should give sex to get sex and men should give love to get love.

[Q] Playboy: You can't dismiss the biological differences. Are men more driven to fuck?

[A] Hartley: Yes, and that's OK. But a woman can wear you out. As Bobby says, "One woman can take on a regiment." That's partly why men fear female sexuality. At one time, if a man walking down the street felt an attraction to a woman, he could charge her with witchcraft for putting a spell on him. She made him sin by inspiring lustful thoughts.

[Q] Playboy: Is sex overrated?

[A] Hartley: It's undervalued.

[Q] Playboy: Are men oversexed?

[A] Hartley: Men like to be around naked chicks who are having orgasms. But women make guys lie. If a guy walked up to a woman and he were honest and said, "You're attractive, I'd love to get with you," she would feel disrespected. To equate that wonderful feeling in his loins with disrespect is the worst thing that antiporn feminists such as Andrea Dworkin, Catharine MacKinnon and Susan Brownmiller ever did.

[Q] Playboy: You've described yourself as an "erotic actress." Where's the acting?

[A] Hartley: There's fucking and there's fucking with flair. How do you put feeling into a hand job? That's where my dancing comes in. It's a performance. At home I like two or three positions and that's it. When I'm not acting, I'm a very boring cunnilingus recipient.

[Q] Playboy: You once said that you don't "draw the weird kind of crowd." Isn't anyone who idolizes a porn star sort of cracked?

[A] Hartley: There are two kinds of fans. There are fans who don't have a life and never will have a life. Then there is the regular guy who likes to masturbate every now and again, or he and his wife like to watch me. He wants to meet the person who has brought him so much pleasure. Those aren't cracked people. Pornography can make monogamy easier to handle. You go through periods where you need it more.

[Q] Playboy: What's the strangest thing a fan has done in an attempt to sleep with you?

[A] Hartley: No one does bizarre things. If I want to sleep with you, you'll be the first to know. There are no hoops.

[Q] Playboy: So guys never beg?

[A] Hartley: Some do, but I don't let them go on for long. They don't expect me to say yes. They just had to ask. I say, "Of course you did. I'm certainly not offended." Some guys will offer me money--a lot of money. But there's no amount worth going to jail over. If I were single, who knows what I would risk? But presently it's not fair to my family.

[Q] Playboy: In Boogie Nights, when your husband--played by William H. Macy--yells at you for fucking some guy in the driveway, you have a great line: "You're embarrassing me." Is there anything that embarrasses you?

[A] Hartley: I can't deep-throat worth a dang. I haven't learned how to get past the gag reflex. A couple of girlfriends told me to breathe out. I tried that last night, and it helped a little.

[Q] Playboy: Anything else?

[A] Hartley: Gas on the set. You just point your butt elsewhere. Or I'll forget someone's name. I'll be at a swing party and somebody will say, "Remember me?" Fucking Nina Hartley was a big deal for them. To me, it was a day like any other. I fuck a lot of people. That's why I'm altruistic in my sexual encounters. Even if I forgot your name, I know I treated you right.

[Q] Playboy: What etiquette is followed on porn sets?

[A] Hartley: If someone is a little ripe, you pull the director aside and mention it quietly. You do not embarrass a girl by getting between her legs and going, "Ugh."

[Q] Playboy: What if you want to embarrass someone? How does one porn actress dis another?

[A] Hartley: You cast aspersions on her boob job. You say something about her cellulite. You call her a dead fuck. But I don't hear much malicious gossip. Most of the women are bisexual, so it's a sisterhood.

[Q] Playboy: What etiquette is there concerning AIDS?

[A] Hartley: It's "You show me your test, and I'll show you mine." Everyone gets tested for HIV monthly, and the guys are now supposed to wear condoms. It will never be completely safe, but if you wanted that, you'd either be celibate or monogamous.

[Q] Playboy: But surely there are people who disregard the etiquette. What happens to them?

[A] Hartley: The entertainment business is full of vampires. If you want to kill yourself, there are people who will hold your hand all the way to hell. You really have to ask yourself, What do I want out of this? What am I here for?

[Q] Playboy: Do most people get involved out of desperate financial need?

[A] Hartley: A few years back, maybe. But the number of performers coming in who are clearheaded, sober, intelligent, happily married and sane is growing all the time. In five years you won't recognize the industry. Now people come in, like I did, for the long haul. The first time I walked into a room full of people having sex, I felt at home.

[Q] Playboy: What keeps performers from forming a union?

[A] Hartley: Scab labor is too easy to find. There's always going to be someone who thinks $200 is a lot of money.

[Q] Playboy: Is there a caste system? For instance, do strippers look down on porn stars?

[A] Hartley: They used to. They saw us as being little better than prostitutes. Now a lot of dancers see how well porn stars do financially when stars dance the circuit. The dancers get into porn so they can make bigger money in dancing.

[Q] Playboy: Don't you need to have some degree of emotional detachment in order to make sex films?

[A] Hartley: I'm not emotionally detached.

[Q] Playboy: Most people aren't like you.

[A] Hartley: That's why the veteran performers talk some women out of it. We say, "You're not fit for this, baby. Maybe you should try something else." I'm in pornography because it's an extension of my personal belief system.

[Q] Playboy: Are you a good girl?

[A] Hartley: Define your terms. I pay my taxes and conduct myself in a moral and ethical manner. I don't litter. I follow the rules. When it comes to sex, I don't take advantage of people who are not able to consent, meaning I don't talk to drunk chicks. On that level I'm always a good girl.

Nice Brain

Nina on Sex, Politics and Porn

From "Whores and Other Feminists"

"This culture's sexual mores stem from those of the founding religious fanatics who hanged women who were different; our sex laws come directly from their warped view-points. For Puritans, sex is a balance beam: One false step and you are damned forever. For me, sex is a big gated meadow with a sign that says consenting adults welcome. It's impossible to fall off into damnation."

"When I was younger I was angry that there was no place for me to gain sexual skills without the burden of relationships and love. You could go to school for any other skill, but not sexual skill."

"For some women, objectification is humiliating. Other women suffer for never being the object of anyone's desire. Certain feminists throw the baby (sex and the mating dance) out with the bathwater (male violations of women's space and dignity). We do not need less objectification (where else does one get the courage to say hello to someone at a party?). Rather, we need to make men more aware of how to act once they are next to a woman. Women will feel freer to say yes to sexual pleasure when men start honoring our nos."

"If a woman presents a sexual, confident persona, men generally listen to all she has to say. Susan Sarandon said it succinctly in Bull Durham when she tied Tim Robbins to a bed and read him poetry: 'Men will listen to anything if they think it's foreplay.' If she underscores her point by encouraging or facilitating or inducing his orgasm, the point may well stick for good."

From "Pornography at the Millennium"

"Pornography can save civilization. How? Because of pornography's raison d'être: orgasm. After millennia of bad press, the physiological phenomenon known as orgasm has been shown irrefutably to have no negative side effects."

"Over the years, I have found that the people who have the strongest negative reaction to me are those whose sex lives are less than satisfying. They are not coming enough, and I, who remind them of that fact, am not welcome."

"For people who believe that pleasure is the devil's tool, people like me and my friends signal the end of the world. They've been told that they need outside assistance to connect with God, and here we are, saying God is as close as the end of your arm and your next orgasm."

"I am an unabashed flag-waver for the positive effects of nudism, dance, jazz, full-body massage, swinging and group sex. Being part of the parallel universe of sex-positivism has changed my life for the better. Whether you're celibate or 'promiscuous,' there is some form of sexual expression right for you."

"While I champion the cause of pornography, I am aware there is material produced that is barely tolerable. I agree in part with the antiporn feminists: A majority of adult movies are being made by infantile misogynists who are obsessively reliving their adolescent fixations. Does that surprise us? We do our best to raise sexually twisted people, then act outraged when they create or desire twisted sexual entertainment or release? Puh-leeze."